Things you want PoE 2 to specifically avoid if possible

[injurai]

You still kind of be. Just because you hit hard does not mean you can be proficient with weapons, nor stand in the front line. So you still get relegated to flinging spells. Just might is the controlling factor of hit power.

[Ninjamestari]

Because... it's magic. The setting doesn't have to fit to your expectations of how magic works

 

 If they are interested in me both buying the game *and* not complaining about it then hell yeah it does.

[1varangian]

 

When Might represents two different things, it becomes unclear how the ability score reflects your character. Is he physically or mentally strong or both? Scripted events where you push down walls clearly paint a picture of a muscly character when you imagined your Wizard or Rogue to be thin and fragile. And you feel a disconnect to the character you envisioned. This is bad in an RPG.

 

Secondly, there are ways to make physical strength useful for everyone without doing what PoE did with Might. A strong character could always wear heavier armor without penalty. DR is always useful. In fact its strange heavy armor and weapons don't have any kind of strength requirements.

 

I also hope the ability scores you select for your character will have more impact on your stats in PoE2. Maybe using a diminishing returns point buy system so that nothing gets out of whack, like NWN had.

The description does say it is both. A character with 18 might is always very strong both physically and spiritually (also within the lore if you're spiritually strong you can make yourself physically strong). It is kind of on the people who expected otherwise. What they should have done is given a reason for the two to be connected. In theory in Pillars' world you can have people who are strong spiritually but weak physically but it's impossible to create a character that way. They probably should have made it impossible to have a character be weak physically but be a powerful spellcaster in the lore.

 

That's an awful decision and I hope they do change it for PoE2. All spellcasters are as strong as your warriors? Come on.

[Baltic]

 

 

When Might represents two different things, it becomes unclear how the ability score reflects your character. Is he physically or mentally strong or both? Scripted events where you push down walls clearly paint a picture of a muscly character when you imagined your Wizard or Rogue to be thin and fragile. And you feel a disconnect to the character you envisioned. This is bad in an RPG.

Secondly, there are ways to make physical strength useful for everyone without doing what PoE did with Might. A strong character could always wear heavier armor without penalty. DR is always useful. In fact its strange heavy armor and weapons don't have any kind of strength requirements.

I also hope the ability scores you select for your character will have more impact on your stats in PoE2. Maybe using a diminishing returns point buy system so that nothing gets out of whack, like NWN had.

 

The description does say it is both. A character with 18 might is always very strong both physically and spiritually (also within the lore if you're spiritually strong you can make yourself physically strong). It is kind of on the people who expected otherwise. What they should have done is given a reason for the two to be connected. In theory in Pillars' world you can have people who are strong spiritually but weak physically but it's impossible to create a character that way. They probably should have made it impossible to have a character be weak physically but be a powerful spellcaster in the lore.

That's an awful decision and I hope they do change it for PoE2. All spellcasters are as strong as your warriors? Come on.

If you give them the same might score they are. That's entirely your choice. Out of melee based companions only Devil of Caroc and Pallegina have lower or equal might to the spellcasting companions, most have higher. Presumably the companions are fairly average for stat distributions. Edited April 9, 2017 by Baltic

[MortyTheGobbo]

I could see Might being sort of folded with Constitution as "Brawn", and serving as a general physical beefiness score. Then damage and healing could depend on different attributes, depending on class and maybe equipment. But that'd require a complete overhaul of the ability scores and I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

[rjshae]

 

Because... it's magic. The setting doesn't have to fit to your expectations of how magic works

 If they are interested in me both buying the game *and* not complaining about it then hell yeah it does.

 

I very much doubt they will make such a major change at this time, so I expect they'll have to put up with the lack of your purchase.

[Katarack21]

What it comes down to is, the game is made for a community of players, not to one individuals desires or demands. If you don't like the way Might works *that badly*, get forty thousand people on your side or don't buy the game.

Those are your options.

That being said, this is a thread pretty much dedicated to saying things you want the game to avoid, so it's all good. Just don't expect the company to change a fundamental aspect of the game design.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Katarack21

[Lord_Mord]

Second wind. Please find a less cheesy way to make athletics useful. And a less cheesy way to keep my party members from dying. If I'm not min-maxing everything I always come to the the point where I have to take some athletics points because I need an emergency button. But I hate having to use that button. It just feels wrong.

[Ninjamestari]

 

 

Because... it's magic. The setting doesn't have to fit to your expectations of how magic works

 If they are interested in me both buying the game *and* not complaining about it then hell yeah it does.

 

I very much doubt they will make such a major change at this time, so I expect they'll have to put up with the lack of your purchase.

 

 

Are you *trying* to sabotage the company? One would think that me buying the game and complaining is preferable to my complete absence from the company point of view. What you fail to understand is that I represent a significant portion of the player-base with my opinions, a portion that rarely posts on the forums because of the vicious backlash they get from the forums when they express their opinions. The people that defend the way might is handled tend to be Obsidian loyalists, and I guarantee that if obsidian decides to change the system to accommodate my side of the fence, your side won't complain about it in the long run and will learn to love it just as much as they do the current way of doing things. Their choice is keep going with the current option that makes base A happy but alienates base B, or they can make adjustments so that both A and B are happy, the latter is just good business. And business *is* important; the more money they make with the game, the more money they can invest in future games and that is good for everyone.

[Ninjamestari]

What it comes down to is, the game is made for a community of players, not to one individuals desires or demands. If you don't like the way Might works *that badly*, get forty thousand people on your side or don't buy the game.

 

Those are your options.

 

That being said, this is a thread pretty much dedicated to saying things you want the game to avoid, so it's all good. Just don't expect the company to change a fundamental aspect of the game design.

 

I kinda resent the way you suggest that the community is unanimous on this subject. You are not the mouth-piece of the community and do not have the authority to speak for all of us.

[Baltic]

 

 

 

Because... it's magic. The setting doesn't have to fit to your expectations of how magic works

 

 If they are interested in me both buying the game *and* not complaining about it then hell yeah it does.

 

I very much doubt they will make such a major change at this time, so I expect they'll have to put up with the lack of your purchase.

 

Are you *trying* to sabotage the company? One would think that me buying the game and complaining is preferable to my complete absence from the company point of view. What you fail to understand is that I represent a significant portion of the player-base with my opinions, a portion that rarely posts on the forums because of the vicious backlash they get from the forums when they express their opinions. The people that defend the way might is handled tend to be Obsidian loyalists, and I guarantee that if obsidian decides to change the system to accommodate my side of the fence, your side won't complain about it in the long run and will learn to love it just as much as they do the current way of doing things. Their choice is keep going with the current option that makes base A happy but alienates base B, or they can make adjustments so that both A and B are happy, the latter is just good business. And business *is* important; the more money they make with the game, the more money they can invest in future games and that is good for everyone.

If you were talking about a large group in your post you should have said so. It sounded like you were just saying that you, one specific person, will not buy the game.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Second wind. Please find a less cheesy way to make athletics useful. And a less cheesy way to keep my party members from dying. If I'm not min-maxing everything I always come to the the point where I have to take some athletics points because I need an emergency button. But I hate having to use that button. It just feels wrong.

 

I like Second Wind for making it easier to keep characters on their feet, but it is very much a stop-gap. And skills need some thorough reworking, anyway. They're kind of an afterthought.

[rjshae]

What you do understand is that I represent myself with my opinions, a person that frequently posts on the forums because of the thoughtful response I get from the forums when I express my opinions.

 

Heh, fixed it for you.

[Ninjamestari]

 

What you do understand is that I represent myself with my opinions, a person that frequently posts on the forums because of the thoughtful response I get from the forums when I express my opinions.

 

Heh, fixed it for you.

 

 

Really mature. Thanks for showing everyone, again, the kind of behavior that can be expected from your side of the argument.

[Fenixp]

That's an awful decision and I hope they do change it for PoE2. All spellcasters are as strong as your warriors? Come on.

You could easily make an argument that with physical fitness comes spiritual balance or some such. A lot of people do in fact.

 

One would think that me buying the game and complaining is preferable to my complete absence from the company point of view. What you fail to understand is that I represent a significant portion of the player-base with my opinions, a portion that rarely posts on the forums because of the vicious backlash they get from the forums when they express their opinions.

[citation needed] Edited April 10, 2017 by Fenixp

[1varangian]

I'm sure you can have a perfect reasoning behind combining all kinds of stats into one but that's not the point.

 

I want to be able to create a Wizard who is physically frail but mentally a giant, and I can't do that in PoE without gimping his spellcasting power. I can't create my character in a way I envision them. And that's why this completely unnecessary combining of two attributes is not good design.

[Ninjamestari]

 

That's an awful decision and I hope they do change it for PoE2. All spellcasters are as strong as your warriors? Come on.

You could easily make an argument that with physical fitness comes spiritual balance or some such. A lot of people do in fact.

 

One would think that me buying the game and complaining is preferable to my complete absence from the company point of view. What you fail to understand is that I represent a significant portion of the player-base with my opinions, a portion that rarely posts on the forums because of the vicious backlash they get from the forums when they express their opinions.

[citation needed]

 

 

You do realize that this attitude of yours reflects quite badly on these forums, and by extension Obsidian as a company. If you want people to lose hope that their views and preferences will ever be met with anything besides people like you throwing **** into their face, then please continue sabotaging the image of Obsidian.

[Fenixp]

I'm sure you can have a perfect reasoning behind combining all kinds of stats into one but that's not the point.

Yes, you can.

 

I want to be able to create a Wizard who is physically frail but mentally a giant, and I can't do that in PoE without gimping his spellcasting power. I can't create my character in a way I envision them. And that's why this completely unnecessary combining of two attributes is not good design.

First of all, you can actually do that in PoE. Remember that, effectively, there are two kinds of major spell focuses in the game: Some are based around an immutable effect for X duration, which are essentially dependent on Int, and others apply powerful effect over short duration, that are dependent on Might (or combination thereof) - if you build your spellcaster right and choose proper focus, you can absolutely have a very potent mage with low Might attribute.

 

Secondly, the request of being able to create a weak mage reflects nothing more than you being too entrenched in the ways of other games. Remember that even with separate strength, you can't create your characters in a way you envision them anyway - you're still limited, just by other things. You won't make a person who has good lower-body strength from, say, running a lot. Or a really durable character that's unstable and will take heavy hits from psychological attacks. You always are and will be limited by system - so it's not about "I can't have a mage that's also weak", it's "I finally have a different system that lets me have mages previous systems didn't encourage."

 

And, at the end of the day, there's no real-life example of how does magic work. Having a setting which has a bit of a different outlook on it is just a + in my book, it's not like we're lacking in the department of games where magic power is governed by intelligence.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Fenixp

[1varangian]

Why is this even such a hot debate? There is no right or wrong here. I can't create my character the way I envision them and I'll just leave it at that. It's valid criticism towards their design choice.

[Fenixp]

Why is this even such a hot debate? There is no right or wrong here.

This quote contains both the question and answer to that question :-P Debates with easy right answers aren't particularly interesting, eh? And as I pointed out, you can absolutely create a mage with low Might value - he's just not going to be very good at throwing fireballs everywhere. Which is fine as making sacrifices is one of the cornerstones of RPGs, isn't it? Edited April 10, 2017 by Fenixp

[rjshae]

 

 

What you do understand is that I represent myself with my opinions, a person that frequently posts on the forums because of the thoughtful response I get from the forums when I express my opinions.

 

Heh, fixed it for you.

 

 

Really mature. Thanks for showing everyone, again, the kind of behavior that can be expected from your side of the argument.

 

My pleasure as always. Good luck to you.

[Amentep]

This forum is intended to discuss PoE2: Deadfire, to debate its mechanics and story and - at this stage - discuss what we'd like to see in this game.
 
It is not here for posters to discuss each other or to try to tweak the nose of one another to get a reaction.
 
Please modify your posting patterns accordingly, lest the mod team decide that it is time to alter them for you.

 

That people were veering off-topic was already brought up before in this thread - https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/92019-things-you-want-poe-2-to-specifically-avoid-if-possible/page-9?do=findComment&comment=1903849

[1varangian]

 

Why is this even such a hot debate? There is no right or wrong here.

This quote contains both the question and answer to that question :-P Debates with easy right answers aren't particularly interesting, eh? And as I pointed out, you can absolutely create a mage with low Might value - he's just not going to be very good at throwing fireballs everywhere. Which is fine as making sacrifices is one of the cornerstones of RPGs, isn't it?

 

You don't think being physically strong is an odd requirement for a Wizard to be able to throw potent fireballs?

[Baltic]

 

 

Why is this even such a hot debate? There is no right or wrong here.

 

This quote contains both the question and answer to that question :-P Debates with easy right answers aren't particularly interesting, eh? And as I pointed out, you can absolutely create a mage with low Might value - he's just not going to be very good at throwing fireballs everywhere. Which is fine as making sacrifices is one of the cornerstones of RPGs, isn't it?

You don't think being physically strong is an odd requirement for a Wizard to be able to throw potent fireballs?

Is it too improbable that being physically strong allows you to better channel magic? The thing with might in Pillars is that is represents the strength of your soul right? Which is something you are born with and cannot change correct? Whereas you can make yourself physically stronger. That's my problem with might. In Pillars you cannot create a character who casts powerful spells who is physically weak (you can still create a powerful spellcaster who is physically weak though) but would it be a problem if it was justified? You can't make a physically weak character who is able to pick up boulders without assistance, you can't make a character with low intellect who's also a great problem solver, etc.

[Amentep]

In game description for might is:

 

Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense.

 

So somehow or another physical strength in the Pillars of Eternity universe seems to stand for muscles and spiritual strength.  There could be a handwave to this (something like a body-soul interface that requires physical strength to channel the full magical spiritual strength safely or something while mental strength allows one to channel for longer whatever amount of energy ones strength allows to be funneled through the body) but I'm not sure one is ever made in the game.