A serious discussion towards Ydwin and animancy

[molotov.]

Hello, I'm a huge fan of the first game, although I haven't finished yet - my GPU died -, I have played more than 300 hours and watched 25 hours of gameplay on youtube and I have to say, animancy is treated quite bad in PoE1. We have quite a lot of terrible events caused by lunatics or good academics doing research without any proper preparation and one or maybe two examples of good events, but those have sparse details and nothing specific like the terrible events.
So that being said, Ydwin is a good opportunity to show that a lunatic can do some good, make her quest interesting, let the watcher help her with the research, give us the choice to help animancy!
If possible delay her, make her a new companion for a DLC, but don't waste the opportunity.




And to be honest Ydwin seems more interesting than any of the new companions you guys showed so far...

[CottonWolf]

They've said that they're going to have a more nuanced portrayal of animancy in 2. They acknowledge that they really didn't show it in the best light in 1. (Though some of the people in the Sanitarium seemed well intentioned if inept.)

[evilcat]

The problem is that everybody sees Ydwin a bit different. Some want copypaste of Edwin, others serious stuff.

I see her as mix of Sera Inqusition and Tali'Normandy, this time with necromancy. But for others... no cute necromancers in MY game.

Hard times.

[rjshae]

I suspect that Alchemy was the model here. Animancy in PoE appears to get treated the same way as the Faustian image of certain Alchemical practices during Renaissance Europe. The practitioners weren't seen in the same positive light that came with the pursuit of Science during the Enlightenment. Animancers are mad scientists in pursuit of forbidden knowledge, and often do so through evil means.

[Gromnir]

before poe were released, we complained 'bout animancy.  we complained how the descriptions o' animancy in a world where souls is objective real made no sense whatsoever.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66230-the-morality-of-animancy/?p=1452295

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66430-i-feel-like-im-missing-something-here-related-to-souls-and-the-game-mechanics-in-this-game/?p=1465141

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66212-some-questions-about-undeath-in-poe/?p=1451325

 

didn't seem plausible to us that animancy would be anything other than reviled by the vast majority o' any population. 'course obsidian assured us our concerns would be addressed in the game, so we waited patient.

 

am still waiting.

 

on the positive side, the developers have admitted their disappointment with how they presented animancy in poe1 during those twitch q&a segments.  obsidian seems dedicated to fixing animancy, though am not certain such is actual possible.

 

regardless, am agreeing (kinda) an animancer companion appears almost vital to any kinda portrayal o' eora animancy as something other than dangerous and disturbing.  animancy, as presented in poe1, would seem beyond the ability o' ordinary folks to be seeing such 'science' as other than moral repugnant and potential catastrophic. an animancer companion would go a long way towards making it possible to fix current busted animancy.

 

'course we think making ydwin a final stretch goal and number 8 were bad planning.  poe 2 funding reaches only to $4.9 million and Gromnir will be perfect satisfied as am not believing another companion will necessarily make the game better.   

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 23, 2017 by Gromnir

[molotov.]

before poe were released, we complained 'bout animancy.  we complained how the descriptions o' animancy in a world where souls is objective real made no sense whatsoever.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66230-the-morality-of-animancy/?p=1452295

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66430-i-feel-like-im-missing-something-here-related-to-souls-and-the-game-mechanics-in-this-game/?p=1465141

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66212-some-questions-about-undeath-in-poe/?p=1451325

 

didn't seem plausible to us that animancy would be anything other than reviled by the vast majority o' any population. 'course obsidian assured our concerns would be addressed in the game, so we waited patient.

 

am still waiting.

 

on the positive side, the developers have admitted in those twitch q&a segments their disappointment with how they presented animancy.  obsidian seems dedicated to fixing animancy, though am not certain such is actual possible.

 

regardless, am agreeing (kinda) that an animancer companion appears almost vital to any kinda portrayal o' eora animancy as something other than dangerous and disturbing.  animancy, as presented in poe1, would seem beyond the ability o' otherwise ordinary folks to be seeing such science as other than moral repugnant and potential catastrophic. as such, an animancer companion would go a long way towards making it possible to fix current busted animancy.

 

'course we think making ydwin a final stretch goal and number 8 were bad planning.  poe 2 funding reaches only to $4.9 million and Gromnir will be perfect satisfied as am not believing another companion will necessarily make the game better.   

 

HA! Good Fun!

I agree with everything, specially the part about the bad planning towards stretch goals, the obsidian team - specially Josh - seems to not want a 8th companion, but they introduced that strange sidekick stretch goal, why not a fully 8th companion? Why we have to wait until 5 million? Why not 4.25? Yes ships are cool, but a potential animancer companion? That is even better, seeing that animancy is such a big part of Eora, bigger than ships.

[injurai]

I really feel we NEED the 8th companion.

[evilcat]

Pale, skinny, whitehair girls with elven blood and grip on swordfight, after Witcher 3 it sounds so good.

Animancer but lighheart and with good will hunting that is fresh aproach. Gloom necros are also ok, but not not, not for me.

I think it is most important to focus on Animancy on Ydwin, even if that calls for swap of some other concepts (like class swap).

There may be more swashbucklers and scoundrels, but only one Animanceress so far.

 

Minor beaching, players will always supply salt anyway:

• I hope there will be cipher melee kit. So why rogue? What rogues have in common with Animancy. Are they stealing souls? Are they using abyss for shadow pounce? Use animancy gadgets? (gadget not visible on concept art) Or is Ydwin assasin? But lighheart assasin... that could be too thin.
• What about cipher/chanter? Chanters have some animancy talents anyway. Also she can collect folklore tellings to collect old lore about animancy.
• What kind of animancy she fancy? Scholar A (dont look scholar or elchemic) Tradition (white that wends could have some knowledge)? Or maybe natural talent (soul of St Ydwen)? or else?
• Can you master both dueling and animancy? Maybe she is less successfull scholar (so far) but made ups with courage (Deadfire travel to prove herself and discover something big and show that bookworm that 1st hand experience trumps dark labs)

Xoti, Pallegina, Maia or Ydwin? And i thought Yen vs Triss was hard.

Edited February 23, 2017 by evilcat

[dukeisaac]

I agree there's good opportunity here to expand on the whole animancy concept and add more of it to the game. Ydwin (and an animancy skill, I expect) is a neat way to do that.

 

That being said, I didn't mind how they treated animancy in POE. Yes, it was one-sided (negative) but it was a cool introduction of science in a fantasy setting.

 

POE2 should be much more interesting though

[Katarack21]

We're on the other side of the world in an entirely different culture. Of *course* they don't treat it the same way! Besides, there's plot-related reasons that animancy was so reviled in the Dyrwood.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Katarack21

[Heijoushin]

Well, I think its quite plausible that most animancers are doing more harm than good. I mean, look at doctors 100 years ago. They had a lot of incorrect beliefs/methods that probably further messed up patients. When a science is in its infancy, everyone is stumbling around in the dark.

 

To E-Cat: Storyline-wise, I'm guessing she's a rogue due to her rough childhood. It said something like "she witnessed the extremes of human cruelty in the white that wends". Can she master dueling and animancy? No, according to the new design, she will be a 70% master in each

Edited February 23, 2017 by Heijoushin

[molotov.]

"Ydwin, our eighth and final companion (we hope!), is a pale elf rogue/cipher with extensive training as an animancer. She was born in a remote, lawless settlement in the White that Wends, where she witnessed the cruelest extremes of kith and nature. Her observations fueled a fascination with animancy, and she eventually made her way to the Vailian Republics to study. She's since become an accomplished master in the field, and advances with luminous adra in the Deadfire have drawn her to the archipelago."
 

Rogue/Cipher is a weird choice, she doesn't seem to have had a childhood without monetary power, a difficult childhood? Yes but not without money, maybe she had to crack some skulls but... she had money. Why she had money? Because she had the money to study animancy in the Vailian Republics! If the lore is correct that seems to be really expensive. So why rogue? She robbed the money? A animancer that has time to pick pocket people? Doesn't seem right. Maybe fighter/cipher, because she looks like a duelist and a fighter/cipher looks like a cool concept, and, let be honest, everyone will use Edér as a tank again... so a dps fighter would not be redundant.

Her briefly introduction has shown once again that she is more interesting than both of the new companions that obsidian showed... really strange choice to have her in the 5 million stretch goal, why not at 4.25? Or maybe they know we liked her so that is why they are pushing her to the 5 million...

Edited February 23, 2017 by molotov.

[dukeisaac]

"Ydwin, our eighth and final companion (we hope!), is a pale elf rogue/cipher with extensive training as an animancer. She was born in a remote, lawless settlement in the White that Wends, where she witnessed the cruelest extremes of kith and nature. Her observations fueled a fascination with animancy, and she eventually made her way to the Vailian Republics to study. She's since become an accomplished master in the field, and advances with luminous adra in the Deadfire have drawn her to the archipelago."

 

Rogue/Cipher is a weird choice, she doesn't seem to have had a childhood without monetary power, because she had the money to study animancy in the Vailian Republics, so why rogue? Maybe chanter/cipher or even fighter/cipher, because she looks like a duelist and a fighter/cipher looks like a cool concept, and let be honest everyone will use Edér as a tank again... so a dps fighter would not be redundant.

 

Her briefly introduction has shown once again that she is more interesting than both of the new companions that obsidian showed... really strange choice to have her in the 5 million stretch goal, why not at 4.25? Or maybe they know we liked her so that is why they are pushing her to the 5 million...

The last two companions represent major factions, so they might be less edgy cool than Ydwin (who I think has potential to be awesome) but are still very necessary. I'm looking forward to their personalities and agendas as much as their relationships with other companions. Pallegina-Maia-Seraphen has potential to blow up big time.

 

You just throw in Ydwin for ***** and giggles .... Ultimate party

Edited February 23, 2017 by dukeisaac

[injurai]

As of now I think the Orlan is the least interesting of the new companions. Maia has ties with Kana. The Godlike could be really interesting. Yeah, it's a shame we might not get Ydwin.

 

What am I saying! Have faith! We must get her.

[Heijoushin]

"Ydwin, our eighth and final companion (we hope!), is a pale elf rogue/cipher with extensive training as an animancer. She was born in a remote, lawless settlement in the White that Wends, where she witnessed the cruelest extremes of kith and nature. Her observations fueled a fascination with animancy, and she eventually made her way to the Vailian Republics to study. She's since become an accomplished master in the field, and advances with luminous adra in the Deadfire have drawn her to the archipelago."

 

Rogue/Cipher is a weird choice, she doesn't seem to have had a childhood without monetary power, because she had the money to study animancy in the Vailian Republics, so why rogue? Maybe chanter/cipher or even fighter/cipher, because she looks like a duelist and a fighter/cipher looks like a cool concept, and let be honest everyone will use Edér as a tank again... so a dps fighter would not be redundant.

 

Her briefly introduction has shown once again that she is more interesting than both of the new companions that obsidian showed... really strange choice to have her in the 5 million stretch goal, why not at 4.25? Or maybe they know we liked her so that is why they are pushing her to the 5 million...

 

They may have simply not finalized her until recently.

 

She may or may not have money. Maybe its one of those "poor orphan demonstrates her talent/knowledge and gets accepted into the guild" stories.

And remember, a rogue isn't necessarily a thief, its just someone who relies more on dirty fighting than pure martial ability. But I do agree that another tank would have been useful.

[Katarack21]

 

"Ydwin, our eighth and final companion (we hope!), is a pale elf rogue/cipher with extensive training as an animancer. She was born in a remote, lawless settlement in the White that Wends, where she witnessed the cruelest extremes of kith and nature. Her observations fueled a fascination with animancy, and she eventually made her way to the Vailian Republics to study. She's since become an accomplished master in the field, and advances with luminous adra in the Deadfire have drawn her to the archipelago."

 

Rogue/Cipher is a weird choice, she doesn't seem to have had a childhood without monetary power, because she had the money to study animancy in the Vailian Republics, so why rogue? Maybe chanter/cipher or even fighter/cipher, because she looks like a duelist and a fighter/cipher looks like a cool concept, and let be honest everyone will use Edér as a tank again... so a dps fighter would not be redundant.

 

Her briefly introduction has shown once again that she is more interesting than both of the new companions that obsidian showed... really strange choice to have her in the 5 million stretch goal, why not at 4.25? Or maybe they know we liked her so that is why they are pushing her to the 5 million...

The last two companions represent major factions, so they might be less edgy cool than Ydwin (who I think has potential to be awesome) but are still very necessary. I'm looking forward to their personalities and agendas as much as their relationships with other companions. Pallegina-Maia-Seraphen has potential to blow up big time.

 

You just throw in Ydwin for ***** and giggles .... Ultimate party

 

Pretty much. She strikes me as filling the position of Devil of Caroc--not really needed or whatever, but damn cool to bring.

[dukeisaac]

As of now I think the Orlan is the least interesting of the new companions. Maia has ties with Kana. The Godlike could be really interesting. Yeah, it's a shame we might not get Ydwin.

 

What am I saying! Have faith! We must get her.

This makes me wonder : has it been confirmed that there will be a factionless (anarchy) path? Seems impossible there wouldn't be one

[Katarack21]

 

As of now I think the Orlan is the least interesting of the new companions. Maia has ties with Kana. The Godlike could be really interesting. Yeah, it's a shame we might not get Ydwin.

 

What am I saying! Have faith! We must get her.

This makes me wonder : has it been confirmed that there will be a factionless (anarchy) path? Seems impossible there wouldn't be one

 

There was one in Tyranny. I wouldn't be surprised if they used that title to experiment with how they plan to do a bunch of features, like the faction system.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Katarack21

[evilcat]

That is the point, you dont need to be rogue to take care of yourself. Melee cipher can put enought extra holes in those who ask for trouble and your belongings.

In outlaw territory ranger or barbarian would make more sense. Rogue is more for populated areas.

 

As for money source... i dont think Great White is sinking in cash.  Mugging to pay tuition... that is thin.

So maybe she wasnt full time student, but more of assistant. Rought girl for some dirty work. But she wasnt fully happy with her master teaching speed, or his aproach was too academic and forced, so she decided to do it best way she know, her way. Travel to Deadfire to make her own study of Adra and learn about Eothas doings first hand.

 

Or she believes that knowledge is pointless without purpose. So better be weak animancer and do something, than most wise who just writes grimuars.

That would also explain why she party with Watcher.

Edited February 23, 2017 by evilcat

[dukeisaac]

That is the point, you dont need to be rogue to take care of yourself. Melee cipher can put enought extra holes in those who ask for trouble and your belongings.

In outlaw territory ranger or barbarian would make more sense. Rogue is more for populated areas.

 

As for money source... i dont think Great White is sinking in cash.  Mugging to pay tuition... that is thin.

So maybe she wasnt full time student, but more of assistant. Rought girl for some dirty work. But she wasnt fully happy with her master teaching speed, or his aproach was too academic and forced, so she decided to do it best way she know, her way.

And stole a bunch of cash before she left to buy fancy clothes, hence the rogue

[injurai]

Or maybe she has to be light on her feet because animancers aren't exactly welcome in this world. She has to sneak around to conduct her research. It sounds like she is an independent animancers as opposed to a state animancer. She has to sneak around to examine corpses etc.

[Elerond]

"Ydwin, our eighth and final companion (we hope!), is a pale elf rogue/cipher with extensive training as an animancer. She was born in a remote, lawless settlement in the White that Wends, where she witnessed the cruelest extremes of kith and nature. Her observations fueled a fascination with animancy, and she eventually made her way to the Vailian Republics to study. She's since become an accomplished master in the field, and advances with luminous adra in the Deadfire have drawn her to the archipelago."

 

Rogue/Cipher is a weird choice, she doesn't seem to have had a childhood without monetary power, a difficult childhood? Yes but not without money, maybe she had to crack some skulls but... she had money. Why she had money? Because she had the money to study animancy in the Vailian Republics! If the lore is correct that seems to be really expensive. So why rogue? She robbed the money? A animancer that has time to pick pocket people? Doesn't seem right. Maybe fighter/cipher, because she looks like a duelist and a fighter/cipher looks like a cool concept, and, let be honest, everyone will use Edér as a tank again... so a dps fighter would not be redundant.

Her briefly introduction has shown once again that she is more interesting than both of the new companions that obsidian showed... really strange choice to have her in the 5 million stretch goal, why not at 4.25? Or maybe they know we liked her so that is why they are pushing her to the 5 million...

 

Rogue don't mean thief necessary in PoE. 

 

"In Pillars of Eternity, the designation of a character as a "rogue" signifies their vicious, brutal style of fighting, not a propensity for theft or deception. More than any other class, rogues exemplify the adage that the best defense is a good offense. If fighters are the disciplined, reliable, well-trained units that hold the line, rogues are the shock troops that attempt to break through that line to take out vulnerable units before they can effectively retaliate. When pinned down, rogues can suffer from their weak defenses, but ideally they carry their momentum from one target to the next in short order."

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/732064

[evilcat]

And stole a bunch of cash before she left to buy fancy clothes, hence the rogue

 

That is some explanation. You cant start epic journey for unlimited knowledge without spectacular robe, how else common folk will know you are The Animanceress?

Maybe she borrowed some coin from Vallian traders, and they are not fully happy with love letter she left.

She may (or not) give it back, once she succed and got famour and rich of course.

[molotov.]

 

And stole a bunch of cash before she left to buy fancy clothes, hence the rogue

 

That is some explanation. You cant start epic journey for unlimited knowledge without spectacular robe, how else common folk will know you are The Animanceress?

Maybe she borrowed some coin from Vallian traders, and they are not fully happy with love letter she left.

She may (or not) give it back, once she succed and got famour and rich of course.

 

Or she won the money in a duel, I read in some in game books that duels are really common in the Vailian Republics, one more point towards fighter.

I'm just really sad that she is the 5 million stretch goal... if she was 4.25... or even 4.5... I'll only donate - with the PayPal - if we get close to 5 million. Animancy is just too interesting for me - I didn't killed a bunch of bad animancers in my PoE1 playthrought -, I just want to help someone with animancy...

[injurai]

Maybe the 4.5 and 4.75 goals will be really worth it. Enough to string people all the way to 5m. I think an 8th companion is worth it alone, but... it helps to have some goodies along the way. At least we can technically fund her after the fig campaign is over.