Slower Combat Speed

[Greensleeve]

In the recent stream (and I guess elsewhere too) Josh mentioned that the default combat speed is going to be where Slow Mode is at in PoE1, and Fast Mode where Normal speed is at. 

 

I think this is a huge mistake. 

 

I should preface this by saying that I do pause a lot. Occasionally a few times a second. It's rare for my encounters to last a full minute in-game time. I guess some of the harder fights are the clearest exceptions. 

 

Anyway, my main point is related to attack speed. Mostly that it's too slow as is. Recoveries for attacks, be they ranged or melee, feel far too long. When I can get those recoveries down to 1.5-2 seconds combat feels so much better and so much more interesting. Whereas at 4 seconds, my fighter is a lot less interesting, as he can't really do anything else.

 

The counter argument I've seen is that the screen becomes too busy at higher speeds. Too many effects going off at once, it becomes too difficult to make intuitive calls and judgments on the progress of the fight. 

 

I absolutely buy this. It's also tangential at best to my point. In fact, I feel spell recoveries could probably afford to be a bit longer and things would still feel fine. 

 

Given the amount of times I used the word "feel" in the above post, this is clearly a subjective subject. I'm curious to hear the community's thoughts on it. 

[JerekKruger]

Isn't slow mode combat the default option currently? I don't remember ever choosing it yet it's how my game is currently set up.

 

Also Josh mentioned that this would be the default. You can still switch combat to normal speed if you want.

[desel]

I think he also mentioned that you can change that through the options?

So that there would be no slow down upon entering combat?

Edited February 2, 2017 by desel

[Gairnulf]

In the recent stream (and I guess elsewhere too) Josh mentioned that the default combat speed is going to be where Slow Mode is at in PoE1, and Fast Mode where Normal speed is at. 

 

I think this is a huge mistake.

I am of the opposite opinion. I always play with the option for auto-switching to slow mode during combat, and I still pause a lot. I only play PotD after an initial incomplete run on Hard.

 

Josh had mentioned PoE's "slow" becoming the "normal" in previous interviews and I was very happy when I heard this.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Gairnulf

[mumbogumshoe]

 

In the recent stream (and I guess elsewhere too) Josh mentioned that the default combat speed is going to be where Slow Mode is at in PoE1, and Fast Mode where Normal speed is at. 

 

I think this is a huge mistake.

I am of the opposite opinion. I always play with the option for auto-switching to slow mode during combat, and I still pause a lot. I only play PotD after an initial incomplete run on Hard.

 

Josh had mentioned PoE's "slow" becoming the "normal" in previous interviews and I was very happy when I heard this.

 

Fully agree. I play with several auto-pause options on slow and still hit the space bar quite often. On normal, combat devolves into an unholy mess, so much is going on at once. Can't even imagine playing it on fast, except for letting the AI steamroll trash-mobs. Fast is handy though when you have to traverse previously cleared maps... don't want them to throw it out completely.

[Gairnulf]

There is an inherent problem with combat pacing that I've tried to describe multiple times, asked Josh on tumblr about it, and I've seen him acknowledge it.

Basically, recovery times during combat can range from around 2-3 seconds to about half a second. Casting times can often reach 6-7 seconds.

With recovery times being so fine-grained, the player has to permanently keep his finger on the spacebar, because pausing just one tenth of a second later may be too late, which can be both confusing an annoying.

This wasn't such a bother in the IE games, because the recovery system was much more simple, and recovery was either 2-3 seconds (I believe every character was on an individual round, with a small random modification), or half that (when under Haste effect) or twice that (when under Slowed effect).

Edited March 3, 2017 by Gairnulf

[GloatingSwine]

I found PoE1's combat vastly improved by enabling automatic slow mode.  I disovered it quite late into my first playthrough and I expect subsequent ones to be greatly improved by it.  

 

It's more readable what's going on, you can do more to intercept things heading for your squishies because they don't zoom there quite as fast, respond to people needing heals faster, and so on.  It all becomes much less scrappy.

 

This wasn't such a bother in the IE games, because the recovery system was much more simple, and recovery was either 2-3 seconds (I believe every character was on an individual round, with a small random modification), or half that (when under Haste effect) or twice that (when under Slowed effect).

 

The Infinity Engine worked on a six second round (at 30fps).  If you cast a spell then queued up another one it would wait until the next round before happening no matter the casting speed (which determined how long you paused in the casting animation and so how vulnerable that spell was to interrupt).

 

Likewise if you had an attack speed of 1 you would make one real attack every six seconds (speed factor of the weapon deciding how far into each six second round it would happen), but the game filled in pretend attack animations to hide the fact that was happening. (In the enhanced editions you can turn those off in baldur.ini).

 

You can make it expose the round based structure by turning on the end of round auto pause.

[desel]

Gameplay Options -> Uncheck "Automatically switch to Slow Mode at the start of combat"

 

Sorted.

[Fenixp]

Good decision. As it stands, it seems to me users were either playing combat at normal or slow mode. If 'slow' is the new default, you'll see players using full range of speed options during combat, allowing for more customization.

 

What I'd like to see is an option to automatically put combat into fast mode just as there's one to automatically slow it down.

[Guest 4ward]

 

why shouldn‘t the player be able to change action speed by say hitting ‚+‘ or ‚-‘ and thus adapting it to his desire? Why only slow or normal? As mentioned here, in BG2SoA the player can set the speed/refresh rate to any value he wanted, say 40 instead of the standard 30 in the .ini file.

[draego]

why shouldn‘t the player be able to change action speed by say hitting ‚+‘ or ‚-‘ and thus adapting it to his desire? Why only slow or normal? As mentioned here, in BG2SoA the player can set the speed/refresh rate to any value he wanted, say 40 instead of the standard 30 in the .ini file.

 

Ye i am in the slow mode crowd here but the original BGs game were based on RTS engine if i am not mistaken which the + - thing is a staple of that genre. So that is an interesting idea. Don't know how hard it would be to implement. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by jnb0364

[injurai]

Fast combat doesn't even bother me tbh.

[Orillion]

I'm not sure where the controversy is here. Slow mode is the new default option in the menu, apparently for people who don't fine-tune their options but DO end up complaining about these things. It's like three clicks to change, tops.

[Tigranes]

You're supposed to pause like a maniac when you play RTwP with any degree of tactical complexity and with 5 or 6 party members. 

 

Doesn't worry me as long as we have various slow/fast speed modes like in POE1. 

[desel]

Forgot where I saw or heard it - maybe somewhere in the Fig comments or during one of the Q&As? - but it's actually not the time being slowed down during combat (= Slow Motion Mode in POE with slower animations and all that) but the overall pace that has been stretched a little. Including slightly longer recovery periods for both the PC's and the opposing party, as well as longer (not slower) animation cycles.

Switching from this "Slow" Mode to Normal (=Fast Mode) would just speed up things like recovery and animations again but not time itself, iirc.

Edited February 20, 2017 by desel

[Vizera]

The problem with POE's combat was not so much the speed as the amount of damage going in and out. You barely have time to cast more than 3-5 spells before most fights are over, which does not really leave much room for tactical flexibility. There were a few exceptions, most notably dragons, but they were just that, exceptions.

 

The best fight i ever had in POE was my 1st run where i went straight for Raderic with only Eder,  Aloth and my monk. Had to utilize every spell, potion and skill with presicion and the fight probably lasted 10-15 minutes. Almost felt like i playing Baldurs Gate2 again for the first time. It never got that good again