Refugees are good!

[HoonDing]

"What you are saying is is that if there's a conflict of differences of culture (not the whole culture mind you, a part of the culture) that doesn't conflict with any laws, you are saying it is the country who should integrate to their culture on said issue, and not the immigrant to the culture of the land? That is more important?"

 

You mean like the French showering only once a week?

[Ben No.3]

You do understand that different people have different beliefs, right? And that not all are compatible?

Because all of our western beliefs are compatible amongst each other?

 

Both Marx and Smith are western thinkers, both Capitalists and Socialists have a large number of supporters in the western world. Those ideologies oppose each other, we get along.

 

Jews and Christians, we are very split on Jesus. We get along.

 

Atheists and Theists.

Racists and Egalitarians.

Traditionalists and Progressives.

Anarchists and Authoritarians.

 

We're all different. Very different. Direct opposition in some cases. We get along.

 

 

Islam isn't some great evil. Like Christianity, it proclaims the killings of certain groups. Like Christianity, people right now use it to justify mass murder. Like Christianity, most believers are not madmen or even fundamentalists. So please, can we all just calm down?

Edited January 20, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Gfted1]

 

Just to make sure I'm on the same page, your belief is that the hosts should change their entire society to accommodate the guests (and should do so as frequently as new guests visit) and that all cultures should be forced to live together regardless the societal impact?

[Ben No.3]

 

Just to make sure I'm on the same page, your belief is that the hosts should change their entire society to accommodate the guests (and should do so as frequently as new guests visit) and that all cultures should be forced to live together regardless the societal impact?

...

 

Whoever wishes to live in our society is welcome to. If he imports new culture, that is a gain for society. I'm not forcing anyone, you perhaps missed my point here.

 

About accommodation of guests... if the number is large enough, then yes obviously they need special treatment. Endangerment of minorities is one of democracy's biggest flaws, so all minorities need to be protected.

[Gfted1]

I see. Well good luck with that.

[Ben No.3]

I sense a certain sarcasm. Please tell me of the evils of islam, so I can understand why they are so different. Oh, and remember that the last time we saw terrorism in Germany, it was executed by Nazis. Before that by communists. Both were German. So the fact that radicals abuse it is no flaw of Islam itself.

 

Also tell me what is wrong with the protection of minorities.

[Meshugger]

...and people are wondering why the right is rising.

[Ben No.3]

The very existence of this debate is almost embarrassing. When did the pursuit of happiness for all men stop becoming a self evident truth?

[Gfted1]

I sense a certain sarcasm. Please tell me of the evils of islam, so I can understand why they are so different. Oh, and remember that the last time we saw terrorism in Germany, it was executed by Nazis. Before that by communists. Both were German. So the fact that radicals abuse it is no flaw of Islam itself.

 

Also tell me what is wrong with the protection of minorities.

 

I don't recall commenting on the evils of islam or minorities, so poor form old chap.

 

What I do recall commenting on is how you believe the host nation should change itself to the cultures of the various immigrants. To me, that seems utterly moronic but I wanted to make sure I was understanding your point, which apparently I was. I don't have the desire to talk you out of your self loathing so I just let it go.

[BruceVC]

I sense a certain sarcasm. Please tell me of the evils of islam, so I can understand why they are so different. Oh, and remember that the last time we saw terrorism in Germany, it was executed by Nazis. Before that by communists. Both were German. So the fact that radicals abuse it is no flaw of Islam itself.

 

Also tell me what is wrong with the protection of minorities.

Bennie I know you mean well but there are several serious issues with the refugees and the spread of Islam, I cant speak for other members but my list is 

 

• EU is predominantly Christian, most countries in the EU aren't interested in adopting more Islamic religious practices
• The EU has real challenges around the rise of right wing partitie, this right wing could even upset the EU so until we have elections in Germany and Merkel wins we really don't want too many refugees coming into the EU
• There is uncertainty where all the refugees are actually coming from. This needs to be resolved
• There are real concerns about ISIS infiltrating groups of refugees
• Refugees need to understand and accept Western values, for example we believe in womens right and gay rights 

[Ben No.3]

1. Well then I'm very sorry for them, but we've have such a thing as freedom of religion and free practice of religion. This is a problem of stigmata and prejudice, it should be resolvable through open minded dialogue.

 

2. I hear where you are coming from, but more than avoiding refugees, which the right wing could use as a argument in their favour ("now we showed them sense"), the successful integration would be a far stronger political symbol.

 

3. I agree, but this is a problem of our institutions.

 

4. There are real concerns about neo Nazis burning down camps as well. Stop the villianisation (spelling at its best)

 

5. I don't have the time to answer, i will

[redneckdevil]

 

 

 

 

 

The culture of whatever nation or region they are in?

Everyone is free to exercise their own religion and culture, as long as they behave by the laws set. That's how freedom in a republic should work.

What you are saying is is that if there's a conflict of differences of culture (not the whole culture mind you, a part of the culture) that doesn't conflict with any laws, you are saying it is the country who should integrate to their culture on said issue, and not the immigrant to the culture of the land? That is more important?

What culture of the land? Germany as it is now exists for not even three decades, and what culture we had before is, in recent years, quite crappy. Europe is just a melting point for dozens of cultures, what's bad about adding another one? The US, well immigration is the reason it exists. The only "real" Americans are either treated very poorly or killed.

Since your not answering the very simple question, I should take it that you feel it is the land that the immigrants come TO that must change if there is a conflict of cultures?

I'm not trying being snarky or judgmental, I was just curious.

Essentially yes... I do not see culture connected to nations or nationality in any sense but a historic one... a conflict of cultures? Isn't a free market all about competition? Why not apply that to art? The Quran is quite well written and certainly nice to look at.

Thank you for your answer. I was thinking on the subject of immigration and I only know from my view point. I tried to find a K.I.S.S. type question to help understand the differences in core opinion/line of thinking on the subject.

 

I agree with you on religion. Imho religion is a set of values and standards and beliefs that ONLY apply to one self if they chose to follow said religion. If you chose to follow said religion, that does not mean that someone who doesn't has to fall in line with what it brings and convert or else they enemies/infidels. It should not impact anyone else, only your self.

While I disagree with you on your answer, I'm not looking to change that answer u gave. Your free to think that is best just like I am free to think against it. BUT moreso just trying to find reasons why places that are for and against immigration and the huge effects of those decisions without resorting to name calling such as racists and idiots etc.

Edited January 20, 2017 by redneckdevil

[Chippy]

I wonder how Brigitte Gabriel would be accepted in Germany and Sweden...

 

Well, ok, she wouldn't be.  And I expect everything she has to say and all of her life experiences would be dismissed as racist, xenophobic, etc, etc.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Chippy

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The culture of whatever nation or region they are in?

Everyone is free to exercise their own religion and culture, as long as they behave by the laws set. That's how freedom in a republic should work.

What you are saying is is that if there's a conflict of differences of culture (not the whole culture mind you, a part of the culture) that doesn't conflict with any laws, you are saying it is the country who should integrate to their culture on said issue, and not the immigrant to the culture of the land? That is more important?

What culture of the land? Germany as it is now exists for not even three decades, and what culture we had before is, in recent years, quite crappy. Europe is just a melting point for dozens of cultures, what's bad about adding another one? The US, well immigration is the reason it exists. The only "real" Americans are either treated very poorly or killed.

Since your not answering the very simple question, I should take it that you feel it is the land that the immigrants come TO that must change if there is a conflict of cultures?

I'm not trying being snarky or judgmental, I was just curious.

Essentially yes... I do not see culture connected to nations or nationality in any sense but a historic one... a conflict of cultures? Isn't a free market all about competition? Why not apply that to art? The Quran is quite well written and certainly nice to look at.

Thank you for your answer. I was thinking on the subject of immigration and I only know from my view point. I tried to find a K.I.S.S. type question to help understand the differences in core opinion/line of thinking on the subject.

 

I agree with you on religion. Imho religion is a set of values and standards and beliefs that ONLY apply to one self if they chose to follow said religion. If you chose to follow said religion, that does not mean that someone who doesn't has to fall in line with what it brings and convert or else they enemies/infidels. It should not impact anyone else, only your self.

While I disagree with you on your answer, I'm not looking to change that answer u gave. Your free to think that is best just like I am free to think against it. BUT moreso just trying to find reasons why places that are for and against immigration and the huge effects of those decisions without resorting to name calling such as racists and idiots etc.

Heh, you have a point there....