Help Designing a Melee Cipher Build

[Elric Galad]

... (unless Elric wants to post his, I think they're probably pretty similar and we don't really need two melee cipher builds in the archive).

 

 

I don't think I'll post my build. I'll post my main character, who is a fighter, maybe my ranged Pal.

[MaxQuest]

At the moment I've gone with 18/8/10/16/18/8 for my base attributes, Boreal Dwarf for my race.

That's close to what I've played with. 17/7/15/16/16/7. I've chosen Pale Elf that time through. I wanted to get a bit extra survivability against fire AoEs and to be less of a target for Ice Blights and Shades with paralyzing Draining Freeze. As for lower perception, it's due to having other team members that would lower enemy defenses for me. (e.g. a priest would weaken everyone; a ranged cipher would paralyze my melee cipher's target; while melee cipher would charm an enemy behind his target, a hammer an anvil tactic of some sort, especially vs ogres) 

 

Obviously no idea how he'll far against the toughest fights in the game yet, but it's pretty clear that he's viable.

Usually you will build focus hitting paralyzed targets and criting a lot. Whisper of Treason the enemy hard-hitters and Amplify-Waving everyone if the fight is not near it's ending phase. Once all enemies are low.. boom detonate/lance spam depending on positioning, or just Silent Scream.

 

That said, I tend to think that a ranged Cipher would still be better in a lot of cases (can make stats more extreme, can more reliably do damage in tight confines, some spell targeting is easier as ranged etc.).

Melee cipher can achieve a higher focus gain than a ranged one. But yeah there are a few problems:

- he has to come close to enemy first, and ranged cipher is already one shot ahead

- plate armor makes casting slower; it will be especially noticeable if you cast low-cost powers a lot

Imho, melee cipher starts to shine when you already have a ranged one.

 

Btw, I was once tracking the party stats (damage; hit/crit, knockdowns). And melee cipher (2nd playthrough) had the potential to be on par with barbarian in terms of total damage

Edited January 18, 2017 by MaxQuest

[QuiteGoneJin]

The cape with escape in it is awesome for melee ciphers for closing distance, I only wish it gave the deflect too cause that with the + deflect cipher power would be siiiiick. 

[QuiteGoneJin]

How's this puppy coming along?

[the streaker]

Defensive mindweb is where it's at with late game ciphers. The synergy with a defensive paladin (or other tanky character) and priest/scroll buffs is insane. I've actually subbed out my priest because he's overkill on anything but the most difficult fights. You can do some crazy things with wizard and all his +deflection buffs, too. Defensive mindweb is my second favourite defense after priests.

[Boeroer]

It's too bad that the cipher gains two absolutely awesome spells with that power level. Reaping Knives (on a friendly barb) is so much fun and Mindweb is so useful. Never know which one I want to cast more often.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

Never know which one I want to cast more often.

Isn't it both?  

And yes, I am again advocating for two ciphers in party)

 

Anyway, if you have barb, I bet you do use Reaping Knives first)

[Elric Galad]

Heart of Reaping Fury

[JerekKruger]

How's this puppy coming along?

 

Honestly, I got a little bored. I reached finished Act II plus all side quests and it was pretty clear to me that, other than the signature fights, nothing was going to be challenging anymore and I didn't feel like finishing it off.

[the streaker]

It's too bad that the cipher gains two absolutely awesome spells with that power level. Reaping Knives (on a friendly barb) is so much fun and Mindweb is so useful. Never know which one I want to cast more often.

 

I'm a bit torn about reaping knives. On most targets you don't get significantly higher damage output, and it takes a long while for reaping knives to return the 80 focus spent on reaping knives, and then to actually generate enough additional focus to make the whole thing worthwhile. Feels a bit like the fight outcome is already decided by the time that happens, and maybe that's not a good thing because I delayed mindweb or amplified wave for so long.

Edited February 7, 2017 by the streaker

[Boeroer]

That's why you should cast it on a barbarian. Heart of Fury with reaping knives and you will have focus overflow.

[indika_tates]

The problem I find with any character that is not "suited" for being a frontline one is that the health pool is what limits your gameplay. I've played a sword+shield cypher and it's powerful. But I hate having to rest every two encounters. A frontline rogue can spare some stat points on CON to soften it but a cipher not. And with 10 CON health drops quickly. How do you manage your health pool on POTD? I can't.

[Boeroer]

True, that can be a problem. Usually, when using such characters, it's not the lack of per-rest-spells that forces you to rest but low health.

This can lead to more resting. It's not that bad when you have vancian casters. Because you can dish out a lot of spells all the time - you will have to rest because of low health anyway.

 

Ok, jokes aside. You can do something when you have such problems and they are annoying you: When you stack healing bonuses (MIG, survival, +25% items) and then use Wound Binding or Field Triage you will get way more than 40% or 20% health. You can read about that effect at length in my Chillfog chanter build. Same effects apply to potions of Infuse with Vital Essence! It will restore health. It's a cheap alternative to Wound Binding and stuff. It will not add as much health as the talents, but enough to push the need to rest a bit further away from you.

 

But yes - you will have to rest more with such characters.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

The problem I find with any character that is not "suited" for being a frontline one is that the health pool is what limits your gameplay. I've played a sword+shield cypher and it's powerful. But I hate having to rest every two encounters. A frontline rogue can spare some stat points on CON to soften it but a cipher not. And with 10 CON health drops quickly. How do you manage your health pool on POTD? I can't.

Yes. Health can be a problem. A problem you have to take into consideration before even starting the new playthrough.

 

There are 2 solutions to it:

- improve this cipher weakness, and make him more tanky; partially in detriment of his offensive potential.

- ignore this cipher weakness, keep his offensive potential; and let a dedicated cc'er cover his ass; in the end you have plate armor against targets that deal low damage; while all higher-hitting enemies are paralyzed as soon they reach your cipher.

 

Tbh I don't like idea of 1h+shield on cipher (until you can reach zero-recovery with that 1h.

Edited February 10, 2017 by MaxQuest

[JerekKruger]

The problem I find with any character that is not "suited" for being a frontline one is that the health pool is what limits your gameplay. I've played a sword+shield cypher and it's powerful. But I hate having to rest every two encounters. A frontline rogue can spare some stat points on CON to soften it but a cipher not. And with 10 CON health drops quickly. How do you manage your health pool on POTD? I can't.

 

I definitely wasn't healing every two encounters with this build, I know because I am the stingiest rester in the world and generally only allow myself to camp once per map (ideally not at all).

 

That said, beyond the very early game I was able to avoid getting targeted by enemies that often. Part of that is simply giving your tankier characters a little bit of time in melee before joining them, but I think a lot of it is that once you get Weapon and Shield Style your deflection gets high enough that whatever arcane formula is used by enemies to decide whether to switch targets doesn't consider you a better target. 

[Boeroer]

Right! Also works with other casters. You can also witness this when you play a front line wizard, druid or priest with shield and higher DR: rushers won't care about you and you can cast your spells without too much disturbance.

[JerekKruger]

Right! Also works with other casters. You can also witness this when you play a front line wizard, druid or priest with shield and higher DR: rushers won't care about you and you can cast your spells without too much disturbance.

 

Of course you still need to be careful. If you go running into combat alongside your actual tanks you might catch attention you didn't want, but with a melee Cipher you should usually be casting Whispers of Treason before wading in anyway.

[MaxQuest]

but with a melee Cipher you should usually be casting Whispers of Treason before wading in anyway.

I was reluctant of using low-cost powers, by a plate-encased cipher at first. Well, because of recovery. I had a second cipher (a ranged one in a robe) who could cast these faster.

But it turns out, that some of spells have almost the same action duration for both naked and plate encased characters. These are the ones I am aware of: Eyestrike, Whisper of Treason, Mental Binding and Ring Leader. (i.e. they have longer attack duration than they should for their UISpeed category; but very fast recovery; so plate is not a problem)

Edited February 10, 2017 by MaxQuest

[indika_tates]

Ok, jokes aside. You can do something when you have such problems and they are annoying you: When you stack healing bonuses (MIG, survival, +25% items) and then use Wound Binding or Field Triage you will get way more than 40% or 20% health. You can read about that effect at length in my Chillfog chanter build. Same effects apply to potions of Infuse with Vital Essence! It will restore health. It's a cheap alternative to Wound Binding and stuff. It will not add as much health as the talents, but enough to push the need to rest a bit further away from you.

 

That's something I'm not aware of. How can you restore health without resting? I thought it was the only way to do it.

[Boeroer]

As I said: Wound Binding (1/rest, 40% health as base - only yourself), Field Triage (1/rest, 20%, ally or self) and Infuse with Vital Essence (potion or spell, adds a flat number of endurance & health, forgot how much). Be sure to drink the potion before encounter ends.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Boeroer