Politics 2016

[LittleRose]

They were arrested because they accused all immigrants in general. And you're allowed to have that opinion. You are, though, not allowed to call for violence against immigrants and refugees. Those people broke a law that exists because of our past. You can say, you don't want so many people from another culture here, becaus some of them rape women. But those people blamed refugees in general, like every refugee would steal our stuff and rape us. How would you feel, if someone called you a thief and, even worse, a rapist, just because of your origin? Even though you've never commited a crime before. How many more refugee asylums do you want to see burning because of hate speeches like that?

 

That's not standing up to Merkel, that's just spreading hate. Want to stand up to her? Whenever she sais "We'll make it" ask her "How?" and don't let go until she has a plan. Blame her for the fact that all those convicted criminals aren't sent back to where they came from immediately, so we have more room for the people who are greatful to have a save place to raise their children. For that's what a wise leader would do. If people saw those criminals punished, they'd be more satisfied and wouldn't start to hate refugees in general.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung

Edited December 21, 2016 by LittleRose

[Volourn]

"Disagreed. I dont acknowledge this one, because it's Breitbart and I bet they left some details out. That doesn't mean i wouldnt acknowledge any other. Besides, it was possible to jail people for hatespeech already since ever. That's not a Merkel invention, which some here imply. "

 

Look at that. Ask for links. gets them. tosses them out. And, people wonder why I don'tr rush to link sources when it so easy to toss them out if it doesn't fit your agenda. I don't feel bad for you as I toss links out to too. But, there is no need to share links even when asked because the person can easily just ignore themn anyways for being the 'wrong' source. You specifically asked for ANY source but  what you meant ' a soruce that agrees with me'. LMAO

 

"

They were arrested because they accused all immigrants in general. And you're allowed to have that opinion. You are, though, not allowed to call for violence against immigrants and refugees. Those people broke a law that exists because of our past. You can say, you don't want so many people from another culture here, becaus some of them rape women. But those people blamed refugees in general, like every refugee would steal our stuff and rape us. How would you feel, if someone called you a thief and, even worse, a rapist, just because of your origin? Even though you've never commited a crime before. How many more refugee asylums do you want to see burning because of hate speeches like that?

 

That's not standing up to Merkel, that's just spreading hate. Want to stand up to her? Whenever she sais "We'll make it" ask her "How?" and don't let go until she has a plan. Blame her for the fact that all those convicted criminals aren't sent back to where they came from immediately, so we have more room for the people who are greatful to have a save place to raise their children. For that's what a wise leader would do. If people saw those criminals punished, they'd be more satisfied and wouldn't start to hate refugees in general."

 

The one acting like a Nazi is you not that couple. or that girl who was forced tot ake her page down because she dared to post that she was afraid for her life. It isn't free speech if the only speech you allow is the speech you agree with. EVIL.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Volourn

[Drowsy Emperor]

They were arrested because they accused all immigrants in general. And you're allowed to have that opinion. You are, though, not allowed to call for violence against immigrants and refugees. Those people broke a law that exists because of our past. You can say, you don't want so many people from another culture here, becaus some of them rape women. But those people blamed refugees in general, like every refugee would steal our stuff and rape us. How would you feel, if someone called you a thief and, even worse, a rapist, just because of your origin? Even though you've never commited a crime before. How many more refugee asylums do you want to see burning because of hate speeches like that?

 

That's not standing up to Merkel, that's just spreading hate. Want to stand up to her? Whenever she sais "We'll make it" ask her "How?" and don't let go until she has a plan. Blame her for the fact that all those convicted criminals aren't sent back to where they came from immediately, so we have more room for the people who are greatful to have a save place to raise their children. For that's what a wise leader would do. If people saw those criminals punished, they'd be more satisfied and wouldn't start to hate refugees in general.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung

 

There is quite a bit of talking besides the point here. Merkel and Sweden (along with other European governments, but those are the two principal actors, and its Merkel that carries more weight in this matter) unilaterally imposed the whole refugee issue on Europe. 

There was never anything resembling a discussion or debate on what should or shouldn't be done.

Not once were the questions asked, why is the EU responsible for cleaning up what is principally Saudi Arabia, Turkey's, Gulf States and US project of regime change in Syria. While some EU states are culpable of tagging along in the whole affair nowhere does it follow that several million muslim immigrants and refugees are somehow the responsibility of everyone in the EU. 

 

I am willing to bet that if the issue was put to a referendum it wouldn't have passed in any country in Europe save perhaps Sweden.

 

Both politically and economically the whole affair was extremely irrational from the start. Yet it was imposed nonetheless. Now that the predictable results are coming to the fore people are understandably furious and lashing out because of their impotence in affecting policy.

 

And for them, the unpleasant side of the law is somehow always very present. One word out of place on Twitter and you're in front of a judge and the next moment you're in jail. Your life is done, fired and blacklisted, not truly for breaking the law (that's an excuse, even if its true) - but for questioning policy. 

How efficiently the police works at F5ing twitter feeds.

 

Where was that police when the massive sexual abuses were occurring in Cologne and other cities? Is facilitating an environment in which that is even possible not a crime?

There is such a thing as political responsibility. And I'm not feeling much of it coming from the few key EU political personalities.

 

No its just - we decided, get along with the ****en program. Maybe not everyone feels that way, hmm?

Edited December 21, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Namutree]

 But those people blamed refugees in general, like every refugee would steal our stuff and rape us. How would you feel, if someone called you a thief and, even worse, a rapist, just because of your origin? Even though you've never commited a crime before. How many more refugee asylums do you want to see burning because of hate speeches like that?

 

It's reasonable to expect that people who've had a collective responsibility to embrace and care for a collective of people at their own collective expense will collectivize responsibility of the actions of members of the incoming collective of people. Such is the nature of collectivism. Collectivism is all-or-nothing; you can't be choosy when collectivism applies.

 

 

How many more refugee asylums do you want to see burning because of hate speeches like that?

 

I'm not an expert on Germany, but I'd be willing to bet $1,000,000 that the hate speech isn't the reason any asylums are burning. While it's possible you know something about this I don't; I strongly suspect you're concluding that the reaction to the problem is the cause of the problem.

 

 

 

Want to stand up to her? Whenever she sais "We'll make it" ask her "How?" and don't let go until she has a plan. Blame her for the fact that all those convicted criminals aren't sent back to where they came from immediately, so we have more room for the people who are greatful to have a save place to raise their children. For that's what a wise leader would do. If people saw those criminals punished, they'd be more satisfied and wouldn't start to hate refugees in general.

 

Interestingly enough; this is the better solution to the hate speech than the censorship. Solve the problem, and the hate will go away.

 

 

Those people broke a law that exists because of our past.

It seems you learned the wrong lesson. The common denominator for senseless state mass-murders is, government dominated discourse + hardship. Germany is actually somewhat recreating those conditions.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Namutree

[LittleRose]

The one acting like a Nazi is you not that couple. or that girl who was forced tot ake her page down because she dared to post that she was afraid for her life. It isn't free speech if the only speech you allow is the speech you agree with. EVIL.

You don't even know what the word "Nazi" means, else you wouldn't call me one. Yes, that girl was done injustice, but I was referring to this:

“The war and economic refugees are flooding our country. They bring terror, fear, sorrow. They rape our women and put our children at risk,”

Not all of them do that. And that's my point.

By the way, Nazis are allowed to demonstrate like every other citizen of this country. They even get official permissions to do so. Why? Because the law for freedom of speech is on their side.

 

I'm a woman, too. Don't think that I wasn't as afraid as any other one of us. I try to act strong on the outside. I'm determined to ram my knee in the crotch of anyone who touches me. But who knows if I get the chance to actually do so in case I'm assaulted?

The other day there was an article in our local paper. A "refugee" who had sexually assaulted several women won't even need to face the judge. Why? Because the public persecutor in charge decided that the man didn't mean to be rude. Oh, right. And they wonder about the rising hate in our country.

 

I see asylums burning, I read about even children of those refugees being harassed.

But on the other hand some false "refugees" are ignoring our laws and laugh at our police. The people who help them get here promise them paradise, and when reality hits, they take revenge on us for not keeping promises we've never made.

 

Still, spreading hate isn't the answer, because most refugees are real refugees, who just want to be save. The answer would be to send everyone, who refuses to be registered by a woman or even breaks our laws, straight back home, because obviously those people don't need our protection. They need to be taught our social rules, because when they come here, they don't know anything about Germany but its name.

 

Yes, our govenrment has failed and doesn't know how to put things right, but spreading hate against refugees won't change anything. It will only make things worse. I don't want a war between refugees and long term German citizens. But that's where that hate spreading will lead. Stop blaming everything on the refugees. The government has made severe mistakes from the start, and all of them are much worse than stopping people from damning all refugees in general. So blame them by voting for someone else next year. I most certainly will.

Want to hear about those mistakes?

 

1. There is no orgenization in dealing with the masses of refugees. Many have spent so much time here without getting a job or even an own home, they'd rather go back. But they can't, because some clerks have lost their passports. Believe it or not, it's sad but true.

 

2. People come here from many different countries and cultures, but nobody tells them what they're supposed to do here. Noone sais "Our women have the same status as men. Deal with it." or "For heaven's sake, don't party the hole night, some people want to sleep." or "No, you're not allowed to just take any type of wood that's lying around to make a fire. It belongs to someone."

When one small town created a leaflet with such information, people called the mayor an Nazi. I call him an intelligent person, becaus he addressed problems that had occured during life with all those refugees and tried to help it in a peaceful way.

 

3. Too many things were tolerated. Imagine the scandal, when some police officers admitted they'd been instructed not to investigate crimes committed by refugees. What did our politicians think would happen? That those incidents would stop if nothing was done about them?

 

4. Putting families in the same room as men who are travelling alone. Yes, some of those tried to take other people's daughters. Of cause there were severe fights then. Send those perverts back where they came from. We have too many of that kind already, we don't need more from other countries.

 

5. Ignoring job qualifications. So you were a doctor in Ghana? Well, don't care, here's a broom. Go sweep the street. And you've been repairing cars your entire life? That's cute, now go and empty that garbage can.

For goodness sake, just let them work under superveillance till they meet our standard, then let them pass a test to gain permission to work in their old job again. We need more medical coverage in the villages anyway. And what's wrong with mechanics? Those people aren't taking our jobs because oure politicians don't give them a chance to do so in the first place. No surprise those people are desperate and don't feel like they have anything left to lose.

 

So, stopping people from spreading hate by court seems to be a bit harsh, on the other hand our judical system is supposed to be independent. Heaven knows what's going on there, but it's always been weird, even long before the refugee crisis.

 

Oh, how I know about all those things? German papers, German TV channels, German radio stations, people working with refugees talking about it on the internet... And guess what? None of those have been arrested for criticizing the government directly. Because none of them has damned refugees in general. Just the ones who had actually committed crimes.

[LittleRose]

 

 But those people blamed refugees in general, like every refugee would steal our stuff and rape us. How would you feel, if someone called you a thief and, even worse, a rapist, just because of your origin? Even though you've never commited a crime before. How many more refugee asylums do you want to see burning because of hate speeches like that?

 

It's reasonable to expect that people who've had a collective responsibility to embrace and care for a collective of people at their own collective expense will collectivize responsibility of the actions of members of the incoming collective of people. Such is the nature of collectivism. Collectivism is all-or-nothing; you can't be choosy when collectivism applies.

 

 

How many more refugee asylums do you want to see burning because of hate speeches like that?

 

I'm not an expert on Germany, but I'd be willing to bet $1,000,000 that the hate speech isn't the reason any asylums are burning. While it's possible you know something about this I don't; I strongly suspect you're concluding that the reaction to the problem is the cause of the problem.

 

 

 

Want to stand up to her? Whenever she sais "We'll make it" ask her "How?" and don't let go until she has a plan. Blame her for the fact that all those convicted criminals aren't sent back to where they came from immediately, so we have more room for the people who are greatful to have a save place to raise their children. For that's what a wise leader would do. If people saw those criminals punished, they'd be more satisfied and wouldn't start to hate refugees in general.

 

Interestingly enough; this is the better solution to the hate speech than the censorship. Solve the problem, and the hate will go away.

 

 

Those people broke a law that exists because of our past.

It seems you learned the wrong lesson. The common denominator for senseless state mass-murders is, government dominated discourse + hardship. Germany is actually somewhat recreating those conditions.

 

I'm not saying that censorship is right. But yes, I do see something. I see that people who write those hateful comments always refer to refugees in general. That includes women, children and family men, who actually respect our laws instead of committing crimes. But that generalization makes less smart people think that refugees in general are the problem. Drive them all out or kill them all, and we can be save again.

The problem is, that our government isn't able to put our laws through. Punish the people who break those laws, and every innocent person can be happy. But that doesn't happen. Because our government, and there's the irony, is afraid to be called racist again, if they're too rough to the refugees and other immigrants. Rather let them get away with nearly everything, so other countries can't blame us for abusing foreingers. That's where the hate comes from. Yes, our government is very sensitive when it comes to dealing with immigrant criminals. It's always been like that. The problem has only worsened with all these refugees around. People are tired of that attitude. But instead of concentrating their hate on the culprit, the government, many turn against the refugees. Including the innocent ones. And that's what I don't like at all.

Edited December 21, 2016 by LittleRose

[Namutree]

 

 I see that people who write those hateful comments always refer to refugees in general. That includes women, children and family men, who actually respect our laws instead of committing crimes. But that generalization makes less smart people think that refugees in general are the problem. Drive them all out or kill them all, and we can be save again.

The problem is, that our government isn't able to put our laws through. Punish the people who break those laws, and every innocent person can be happy. But that doesn't happen. Because our government, and there's the irony, is afraid to be called racist again, if they're too rough to the refugees and other immigrants. Rather let them get away with nearly everything, so other countries can't blame us for abusing foreingers. That's where the hate comes from. Yes, our government is very sensitive when it comes to dealing with immigrant criminals. It's always been like that. The problem has only worsened with all these refugees around. People are tired of that attitude. But instead of concentrating their hate on the culprit, the government, many turn against the refugees. Including the innocent ones. And that's what I don't like at all.

 

Very reasonable sentiment. Sadly, I can only see all of this going in a very bad direction. How bad it will be depends on how long this gets stretched out. Solutions that come sooner will be more pleasant than those that come later.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Of course its ridiculous to blame the migrants for rapes and theft, because the guilt lies in those who engineered their arrival and not the migrants themselves.

 

This is the crime of the century, Europe wide - the migrants are just a side issue:

 

 

 

Berlin estimates its working age population will shrink by 6 million people by 2030 as the number of deaths outstrips births, making it hard to keep the economy growing.

"If we manage to quickly train those that come to us and to get them into work, then we will solve one of our biggest problems for the economic future of our country: the skills shortage," Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel told parliament on Thursday.

 

Why have policymakers created a society that can't even manage to perpetuate its basic survival is the question of the 20th and 21th century Europe.

[LittleRose]

 

 I see that people who write those hateful comments always refer to refugees in general. That includes women, children and family men, who actually respect our laws instead of committing crimes. But that generalization makes less smart people think that refugees in general are the problem. Drive them all out or kill them all, and we can be save again.

The problem is, that our government isn't able to put our laws through. Punish the people who break those laws, and every innocent person can be happy. But that doesn't happen. Because our government, and there's the irony, is afraid to be called racist again, if they're too rough to the refugees and other immigrants. Rather let them get away with nearly everything, so other countries can't blame us for abusing foreingers. That's where the hate comes from. Yes, our government is very sensitive when it comes to dealing with immigrant criminals. It's always been like that. The problem has only worsened with all these refugees around. People are tired of that attitude. But instead of concentrating their hate on the culprit, the government, many turn against the refugees. Including the innocent ones. And that's what I don't like at all.

 

Very reasonable sentiment. Sadly, I can only see all of this going in a very bad direction. How bad it will be depends on how long this gets stretched out. Solutions that come sooner will be more pleasant than those that come later.

 

Then we better expect the worst.

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, I think the process is already well under way. We don't call EU the "Fourth Reich" for nothing.

You're obviously an outsider if you think the EU is any kind if unified reich. The fourth 'reich' hates each other more than the third hated the jews.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Yeah, I think the process is already well under way. We don't call EU the "Fourth Reich" for nothing.

You're obviously an outsider if you think the EU is any kind if unified reich. The fourth 'reich' hates each other more than the third hated the jews.

 

I'm obviously an outsider but parts of the Third Reich hated their rulers as much as anything. So how's the Fourth Reich different? Besides, it's an on-going project, there's still some hope for you as it's not fully realized yet.

 

Edit: The police knew the Berlin terror suspect was dangerous, yet he was not deported: https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/12/21/suspect-sought-for-deadly-berlin-terror-attack-anis-amri-yet-another-known-wolf/

 

Mind blowing, your government is worse than Obola.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Wrath of Dagon

[Blarghagh]

Not my government. The only thing German authorities are good for is SWAT raiding video game devs.

[Wrath of Dagon]

The last comment wasn't addressed to you.

[213374U]

Edit: The police knew the Berlin terror suspect was dangerous, yet he was not deported: https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/12/21/suspect-sought-for-deadly-berlin-terror-attack-anis-amri-yet-another-known-wolf/

 

Mind blowing, your government is worse than Obola.

He was not deported because Tunisia initially denied that he was a citizen. His asylum application had been rejected. Apparently, papers that would have allowed for his deportation have arrived... today.

[majestic]

 

Edit: The police knew the Berlin terror suspect was dangerous, yet he was not deported: https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/12/21/suspect-sought-for-deadly-berlin-terror-attack-anis-amri-yet-another-known-wolf/

 

Mind blowing, your government is worse than Obola.

He was not deported because Tunisia initially denied that he was a citizen. His asylum application had been rejected. Apparently, papers that would have allowed for his deportation have arrived... today.

 

 

Psht, don't you let facts and pesky international law get in the way of a sensationalist headline.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Well yeah, of course you can't go after a terrorist until all the papers are in order.

[213374U]

You can't go after anyone until all the papers are in order or they commit a crime. This is called rule of law.

 

Tomorrow's lesson: due process. Oh, boy.

[majestic]

Reminds me a bit of the case where some nutjob blew up the Boston marathon. Wait, where was that? Somewhere where the government run by Obola isn't as bad in these things as Germany's.

 

Ah right, got it, must be France. Cuz cheese.

 

 

 

You can't go after anyone until all the papers are in order or they commit a crime. This is called rule of law.

 

Tomorrow's lesson: due process. Oh, boy.

 

Unless one has a cozy plaze in Cuba to put people there without due process or having commited a crime. Or in case that gets too unpopular just blow them away with a drone attack or two without any sort of process, due, short or kangaroo.

Edited December 21, 2016 by majestic

[Drowsy Emperor]

/whatver

Edited December 21, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[213374U]

I don't know why we're playing idiots here.

 

Security services can contract assassins for this sort of thing, always have, always will. Russians have hunted down some of the Chechen terrorists years later, wherever they needed to and regardless of how long it took. So has just about everyone else.

 

To have confirmed jihadis roaming about in the territory you nominally control on a technicality reeks of stupidity. But then, there's been a lot of stupidity to go around.

 

Yup. We tried that solution with our terrorists, and they were much easier targets, with an established infrastructure, defined hierarchy and targetable funding venues. Let's just say it didn't work very well, cost some political figures their careers -and long prison sentences- tanked the government, and ended up strengthening their cause.

 

So the rule of law is "a technicality" for you. How very edgy. I think you may have watched too many Bourne movies. 

 

edit: he's not a confirmed jihadi _until after_ he has attacked. Until then, he's just a suspected jihadi. See the problem?

Edited December 21, 2016 by 213374U

[Wrath of Dagon]

Sure, the guy is in the country illegally with known terrorist connections, and there's just no way on earth to detain him. Expect a lot more attacks I guess.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

I don't know why we're playing idiots here.

 

Security services can contract assassins for this sort of thing, always have, always will. Russians have hunted down some of the Chechen terrorists years later, wherever they needed to and regardless of how long it took. So has just about everyone else.

 

To have confirmed jihadis roaming about in the territory you nominally control on a technicality reeks of stupidity. But then, there's been a lot of stupidity to go around.

 

Yup. We tried that solution with our terrorists, and they were much easier targets, with an established infrastructure, defined hierarchy and targetable funding venues. Let's just say it didn't work very well, cost some political figures their careers -and long prison sentences- tanked the government, and ended up strengthening their cause.

 

So the rule of law is "a technicality" for you. How very edgy. I think you may have watched too many Bourne movies. 

 

edit: he's not a confirmed jihadi _until after_ he has attacked. Until then, he's just a suspected jihadi. See the problem?

 

 

Lol, just because you did a poor job doesn't mean its inherently an unworkable strategy. Russians eventually pounded the Chechens down into the ground - hunted down and killed many of their leaders. It took years and sacrifices, but there's no doubt who won that war in the end.

 

And Chechens were far more capable and dedicated, with territory and stronger support than the handful of salafi cretins roaming Germany. 

 

As to the suspected vs confirmed, I guess the fact that he asked a police informant to acquire weapons isn't enough. 

 

But then, they actually allow preaching of salafism in the first place, so the country is hopeless to begin with.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[213374U]

Sure, the guy is in the country illegally with known terrorist connections, and there's just no way on earth to detain him. Expect a lot more attacks I guess.

 

Yes. Generally you cannot keep a person detained indefinitely. Depends on the country, but for instance here the maximum is 72 hours. After that, police have to turn him over to the judiciary, which can imprison them pre-emptively, while an investigation of a crime is underway. You cannot keep people imprisoned indefinitely on suspicions that they may commit a crime.

 

I know you did this with Japanese-Americans during WWII, but really, that's not how the civilized world works, anymore.

 

Psst: Habeas Corpus

 

edit: you are right, though. This isn't the last attack we'll see.

 

 

Lol, just because you did a poor job doesn't mean its inherently an unworkable strategy. Russians eventually pounded the Chechens down into the ground - hunted down and killed many of their leaders. It took years and sacrifices, but there's no doubt who won that war in the end.

 

And Chechens were far more capable and dedicated than the handful of salafi cretins roaming Germany.

 

Hmm, nope. Chechens stopped Chechen terrorists, after what amounted to a bloody civil war, with support from the Russian regular army, not Russian cyborg assassins from the future. Read up on the Kadyrovs.

Edited December 21, 2016 by 213374U

[Wrath of Dagon]

Since he's in the country illegally, a sane government would detain him until he can be deported.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

Sure, the guy is in the country illegally with known terrorist connections, and there's just no way on earth to detain him. Expect a lot more attacks I guess.

 

Yes. Generally you cannot keep a person detained indefinitely. Depends on the country, but for instance here the maximum is 72 hours. After that, police have to turn him over to the judiciary, which can imprison them pre-emptively, while an investigation of a crime is underway. You cannot keep people imprisoned indefinitely on suspicions that they may commit a crime.

 

I know you did this with Japanese-Americans during WWII, but really, that's not how the civilized world works, anymore.

 

Psst: Habeas Corpus

 

edit: you are right, though. This isn't the last attack we'll see.

 

 

Lol, just because you did a poor job doesn't mean its inherently an unworkable strategy. Russians eventually pounded the Chechens down into the ground - hunted down and killed many of their leaders. It took years and sacrifices, but there's no doubt who won that war in the end.

 

And Chechens were far more capable and dedicated than the handful of salafi cretins roaming Germany.

 

Hmm, nope. Chechens stopped Chechen terrorists, after what amounted to a bloody civil war, with support from the Russian regular army, not Russian cyborg assassins from the future. Read up on the Kadyrovs.

 

 

They installed a government friendly to their interests through force of arms. 

 

That aside, because its not relevant to the topic, the likes of Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev, Dzhokhar Dudayev, Shamil Basayev and likely Dokka Umarov didn't get rid of themselves. Their "due process" was usually something exploding them to pieces. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor