The PoE Class Build Arena

[Boeroer]

While discussing the power of certain builds I had an idea for a competition here in this subforum:

 

We won't have PvP in PoE and therefore can't have duels. But maybe we can compete in a different way?

 

Why don't we define certain rules for a class build competition and then keep track of people's results with a highscrore list that gets updated?

If we make this a sticky post it could become not only a competition but also a good source of knowledge for class building. And it puts all those building we do to a fun purpose.

 

I'd say every attempt should go into a seperate thread (like we do it with class builds). We could name them "[ARENA FIGHT] <name of the build> (class)" and the results can be put onto the list here (also like we do with the class builds in Andrea's sticky list - which is awesome by the way).

 

So let's say we define the following rules (I'm totally open for different/more suggestions, just discuss):

 

- do a specified encounter (maybe bounty?) 10 times in a row with the same lvl 16 solo char of your liking. This would be more easy to do than 10 different encounters (too much travelling). Or do 5 times this encounter and 5 times that so that the types of enemies are more diversed?

- no consumables and resting bonuses - or doping allowed?

- spell bindings, chances, holdings, defenses etc. are allowed, enchantments too.

- obvious bugs or glitches (e.g. Confident Aim bug) don't count

- count the seconds from the start of each encounter to the end and add them up over the 10 attempts. That will be your score. The less the better. Like with racing.

- we could define some additional bonuses for retaining a lot of endurance/health or something like that. And if you ask me, we could also give some bonus points for stylish appearance (if it doesn't mean too much fuzz to vote).

- we need a rule what happens if you get knocked out in an encounter (penalty seconds or sth. like that?)

 

What do you think? This should be a lot of fun.

 

 

[Raven Darkholme]

Sounds cool to me.

Idk if Nalrend would be ideal for this, due to them having high hp or too easy compared to WM2 bounties.

Or one could jut take the ogres outside Nalrends cave with upscaled Act 3.

Or you could be extreme and take Brynlod.

[Boeroer]

The Ogres outside the cave have enormous endurance, but low defenses. This may favour builds with lots of damage but low ACC. For example. Maybe it would be fair to define three different bounties.

Upscaled Brynlod is too tedious in my opinion. It would take a lot of time to complete 10 runs against him and it favours high defense builds.

The whole thing shouldn't be too much work though - nobody will do this if you need a whole day for completing it.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

I'd probably just go paladin either way, especially vs. Brynlod ofc.

The burst with SA is so insane I think paladin actually has a chance to be one of the top contenders.

 

I'd be surprised if the best class is anything other than:

 

Chanter

Paladin

Druid

Barbarian

Monk

[Ben No.3]

While I generally am in favour of this idea, we need a more extensive rule set in my opinion...

 

Especially we need points for kill aiding through CC, buffs and debuffs. Many builds are really favouring these, but they probably won't get a lot of "kill points", although being very strong and central to the party (or being very strong solo characters, for that matter). Right now, the system heavily favours DD classes.

 

Edit: although buffs should get fewest points as they don't need to hit against any defense. And then about debuffs vs CC.... Difficult to say which should be valued higher, or if one should be valued higher at all.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Kaylon]

It depends if scrolls are allowed... With enough confusion scrolls you don't have to tank and it's just a matter of helping enemies kill each other efficiently. Without scrolls I think a ranger or a rogue with Sabra Marie are among the best classes to kill these bounties through kiting... Without kiting I doubt any class but the paladin can tank these bounties upscaled...

[Boeroer]

I would prefer no consumables. They lead to the same tactics with every class. Figurines would be OK I guess.

 

Maybe we shouldn't pick the toughest bounty which only tanks or kiters can win but choose encounters that become a bit more difficult with each "round". Like three difficult but not too hefty bounties that you can do one after another (and three times each).

[Boeroer]

@Ben: it's a solo competition.

[AeonsLegend]

Hm, I don't know. On paper characters with High Acc and cc that can be layered will always win. Damage is unimportant. I think in order to win a PvP duel you'd build your characters differently than when going up against enemies in the game.

[Ben No.3]

@Ben: it's a solo competition.

Yes obviously. Nether the less, I believe there is something you should take into consideration about how this competition probably will work. You compared it to racing. This will be exactly like car racing: there will be highly dedicated builds that will be better than any other ones. But like a racing car, these builds will be excellent at one job (in the cars case racing, in our case killing specific bounties. But a racing car is not the best car. In order to avoid at least work against this becoming a competition of builds dedicated to one particular purpose (the bounties), we should maybe consider giving bonus points for support, crowd controll and (de)buff capabilities, rather than grading exclusively by how fast a build can kill.

 

Again, I like this idea. And having a highly dedicated competition is nice as well. But it's just something I felt like worth mentioning.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Boeroer]

But we shouldn't make things too complicated. I think it's not possible to come up with a competition that will give you the best overall build. It will only give you the best build for this special competition - like you said: the best racing car for a special course. But that's ok for me. Developing a competition that takes "everything" into account will take forever and I also think it wouldn't be too complicaed to be much fun.

We shoudl keep the rules simple and the work you have to put into the competition shouldn't bee too hard.

If we want to copmare other aspects of builds (who are not good at this competition but we know they are good at something else) we can come up with another competition later, for example a supporter competition. We could define a given, generic character that needs to do an encounter and then you'll have to come up with competetive builds that support that character the best they can.  

[Kaylon]

Personally, for the best solo build I would pick the hardest encounter (for me upscaled Brynlod) and then try to come with the best strategy (any item/consumable available solo allowed) without kiting/splitting involved...

[Raven Darkholme]

Personally, for the best solo build I would pick the hardest encounter (for me upscaled Brynlod) and then try to come with the best strategy (any item/consumable available solo allowed) without kiting/splitting involved...

Yeah, I'd probably find that most interesting myself, too.

[Boeroer]

But how to determine what is best without certain criteria - like how much time passed from start to end?

 

Brynlod def. is the hardest encounter, but I don't know if it's a lot of fun to do only that. It's a really tedious fight. Maybe it would make a good final though. But I would start with something easier.

[Kaylon]

I think posting ideas or strategies with each class is already a good start. When someone manages to beat the encounter he can give the details of the tactic used or post a video (so other people can try it). We can then make a poll with the builds who beat the challenge and the people can vote for the most effective, reliable, etc...

[Boeroer]

ok

[Kaylon]

Tested upscaled Brynlod with chanter and paladin with no kiting/splitting. With the chanter it's very simple - you just drink potions while waiting for dragon trashed to kill everything (it takes 4-5 minutes). With the paladin it's much harder - SI is barely enough to kill a few mages and you have to kill the rest at melee (it took close to 10min)

[Raven Darkholme]

Hm, that's a shame but I guess it's to be expected with SI running out after a minute or so.

[Boeroer]

For me it's always like that with the bounties. There's just too many of them to kill them all with SI or the foes have too much endurance or too high defenses to get killed by the limited pulses. It's still a really nice ability.

 

I also tested Magran's Faithful again with the chanter. And while it's doable I found it to be harder than Brynlod. The druids with their Sunlances often hit me so hard (despite high defenses) that I can't heal fast enough while at the same time they have very high reflex (>140) so they often only get grazed by The Dragon Thrashed. However - it helps a lot to just run around them in circles (Fast Runner + Graceful Retreat + Night Runner armor) and drink a potion from time to time. They tend to follow you and don't cast so many spells while the chant also works while you're running. I also did that Withdraw-thing again and it works when you put summons out which you heal a bit with Ancient Memory. But they get obliterated very quickly. I didn't try yet to charm one of the mentally weaker Faithfuls and then withdraw. With 3.04 this should work.
But I admit I didn't buff up too excessively. I had no resting bonus, no story talents and no prostitutes. Also no scrolls. I only tried it with survival bonus + food + potions.

 

With a paladin and Sworn Enemy + Munacra Arret ist should be possible to charm, too. Does SI also work when you are withdrawn?  

Edited November 8, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

SI works in more situations than chanting it also works when you are stunned by an enemy, so yeah it also works when withdrawn I should think..

It's a shame SI doesn't get shown as an active effect with timer running out or you could just prolong it with Spelltongue.

[Boeroer]

Yeah that would be great. 

[Kaylon]

Yes SI works while withdrawn, but there's no way to keep a summon/charmed enemy for very long (animated weapons maybe...).

 

I know for sure that SI doesn't work vs Magran's Faithful because they have very high reflex/dr and they also use moonwells if you do aoe damage - you finish by taking more damage than them. However the paladin is able to tank and kill them slowly one by one, also they're more vulnerable to confusion because the priests are very squishy and they get killed quickly.

[Reent]

I always wanted to try a solo paladin, but each and everytime i looked at Sacred Immolation - level 13... remembered how much i hate the time before lvl 9 with chanter (JEAHA, just hit lvl 9 in this ToI chanter run... lets just hope i don't get ****y or i need a new PC and that would be a shame right before Tyranny)

 

Priest would be my class for PoE Arena - they have great lategame fights with the amount of buffs and AoE damage, its a shame that i don't have the time to try a bit... i really want the ultimate achievement before tyranny... it's not looking too good timewise, maybe now that i am lvl 9 i will put more time into the run...

[Raven Darkholme]

Well you get to 13 pretty quickly, cause bounties, but it is quite slow grinding every fight.

Chanter is the ultimate ToIler it's jsut way safer than priests and way more damage than paladins.

[Kaylon]

While casters have some great AoE dmg I'm not sure their limited number of spells is enough to kill everything.