I won't surrender!

[JerekKruger]

Not according to this post: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85177-spiritshift-druid-question/?do=findComment&comment=1786920

 

Might of course be wrong, but I haven't seen any concrete sources saying otherwise. I'll test it myself if no one else has actually done so.

[Slack83er]

Mmm.. I'm still not entirely convinced. Here's description:

 

Draws upon the druid's natural connection to the cat, temporarily allowing him or her to assume that form.

The cat spiritshift has a naturally fast attack and can burst into even faster attacks for short periods of time.

[JerekKruger]

Tested it. Created two Mountain Dwarf Druids with 5/20/2/3/4/18 for attributes*, one a Cat and one a Boar. Did the fight against the wolves on the first map. Results:

 

Cat: 7 attacks during spiritshift duration

Boar: 5 attacks during spiritshift duration

 

Even with the various factors that could through off the results (delay between start of spiritshift and first attack, interruptions from the wolves etc.) this difference seems enough to suggest that the cat does indeed attack faster.

 

More careful testing would be needed to determine exactly how much faster. Certainly it is wrong to conclude from this very limited data that the cat attacks 40% faster (7/5) because of the aforementioned potential errors, because we don't know exactly how close to the next attack each form was after spiritshift ended, and (heuristically) because 40% is a pretty huge bonus.

 

My guess would be the cat form attacks 25% faster, since the easiest way for Obsidian to modify this is to simply give the cat form the same 25% speed enchant that weapons have. I believe this is exactly how the boar's raw wounding works which further supports this.

 

*Low might and perception to avoid hitting as much as possible, and low intellect to avoid the fight being over before Spiritshift ran out.

[Boeroer]

Somebody did a test a few weeks ago when we spoke about cat vs. boar. The result was that they were on par: against weaker targets the cat does more damage because of speed and against stronger targets the boar is better. That's because wounding is very good against high DR. It was also shown that the higher MIG the better the boar (in comparison to the cat). As a bonus, the boar has regeneration. But it's not that powerful. However, in addition to Veteran's Recovery it's nice.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Boeroer

[AeonsLegend]

The wiki states that the Stelgaer is like the cat spirit shift, but has almost double damage plus increased accuracy. Is this still correct. The fact that a party member has a more powerful transformation than you will be able to get has always prevented me from taking the spirit shift route. 

[AndreaColombo]

All Druid forms attack at the speed of dual-wielding Average weapons with the exception of Cat/Stelgaer, which attack as though they dual-wielded Fast weapons: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86684-mechanics-the-big-attack-speed-conundrum/

 

As for the Stelgaer shape, we've already established that it offers no bonus to damage compared to Cat; can't test right now but I'm pretty sure it doesn't offer any extra Accuracy either.

[JerekKruger]

Woah, that post is amazing!

[Boeroer]

@AeonsLegend: No. As I wrote above it has the same damage as the cat. Acc is also the same.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Boeroer

[Slack83er]

All this leads me to think that in the end, there seems not to be a huge difference between shift forms. It's a matter of circumstances as far as I can see. I'll take my decision upon aesthetic and taste.. if I go orlan, I think I'll go cat. Otherwise I'll go boar...

I have a slight preference for boar, but that's because he seems more badass than cat... hehe..

[Dr <3]

Somebody did a test a few weeks ago when we spoke about cat vs. boar. The result was that they were on par: against weaker targets the cat does more damage because of speed and against stronger targets the boar is better. That's because wounding is very good against high DR. It was also shown that the higher MIG the better the boar (in comparison to the cat). As a bonus, the boar has regeneration. But it's not that powerful. However, in addition to Veteran's Recovery it's nice.

I runned the tests. I confirm that they are on par, a slight difference could emerge with longer tests, but anyway should be not so important.

[Boeroer]

Thanks again.

[AeonsLegend]

@AeonsLegend: No. As I wrote above it has the same damage as the cat. Acc is also the same.

Well that is good to know. Spiritshift Druid here I come!

 

Too bad the duration is so short.

[AndreaColombo]

With good INT, it lasts long enough to kill many enemies IME

[Boeroer]

For solo it's too short. With a full party it usually is enough time with decent INT. Just keep in mind the INT bonuses from items don't work so well while shifted.

[AndreaColombo]

Ah, yes--hadn't considered solo play. In that case, it is indeed likely too short (I say "likely" because I lack first-hand experience with solo play.)

 

In a party it's enough to steal the show from your dedicated DPS guys

[Dr <3]

I played some shapeshift druid in solo potd: rule of thumb is that you are able to slay at max 3-4 mobs before it expires ( i always go for max int). So usually i do the First half of the fight spamming spells, after some people gets killed i turn into cat/boar/Wolf and kill the remains ( that will be blinded, stunned at least)

[AeonsLegend]

For solo it's too short. With a full party it usually is enough time with decent INT. Just keep in mind the INT bonuses from items don't work so well while shifted.

That was something I was wondering. Do all items become inert while spirit shifted? Or do some things carry over? The description does a spectacular job of explaining this, so I don't know why I'm asking this.

[AndreaColombo]

I believe Wildstrike belt is the only item in the game that carries over when you spiritshift; everything else is out until you're back to your normal form.

[AeonsLegend]

I believe Wildstrike belt is the only item in the game that carries over when you spiritshift; everything else is out until you're back to your normal form.

Ok then how do you boost your damage? Does it scale with levels?

[Dr <3]

Yes, accuracy and dmg of shapeshift druids gets boost with lvls, like monk punches

[Boeroer]

The base damage scales (to a ridiculously high amount) and you boost damage with talents (Wildstrike and Greater Wildstrike, Savage Attack, Two Weapon Style, Weapon Focus Peasant, Outlander's Frenzy, Apprentice's Sneak and so on). Every damage mod, even if only 15%, works great because the base damage is so huge. Crits also add a ton of damage because of this - not only the tiny 50% of a usual weapon's base damage. If you take the Merciless Hand and add Dungeon Delver it gets even better. Also things like Wilder Hunter (+25% damage) do wonders.

 

The only items that have some use while spiritshifted are those that are designed for the shifted Druid and those with Spell Holdings or Spell Bindings.

 

The Wildstrike Belt also disappears when you shift, but with the action of shifting it triggers a timed elemental damage buff that lasts as long as you are shifted and gets add to the other wildstrike lashes.

 

The Spell Holding/Binding items also disappear of course, but the spells that got triggered before the shifting carry on. For example you can get a crit and trigger Consecrated Ground from Shod-in-Faith boots, then shift. Conserated Ground will carry on. Same with Frenzy from Sanguine Plate and so on.

 

And you can still cast spells when shifted. Avenging Storm for example is very good for a melee druid. It will add a quite powerful seperate shocking attack that also stuns each time you hit an enemy (and it also retaliates with thais effect when you get hit).

 

As I said above, the combination of that very high base damage (scaling claws) plus the 60% lash and things like Avenging Storm makes a shifted druid the top single target damage dealer - as long as he's shifted. There is nothing else that comes close to this. Also not a rogue with Deathblows + Backstab + crit with annihilation weapon (and that's a real chore to get).

 

My boar for example (who is not optimized for melee damage) constantly hits for >100 damage with the known speed of unarmed damage, then also adds wounding (usually around 20 to 30 raw) with every hit. Usually it takes not more than two hits to kill any mob. Also dragons fear his strikes. He can kill any dragon during shifting time at lvl 16 if somebody else cares about the adds. Scaling makes him very accurate, too.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Boeroer

[AeonsLegend]

The base damage scales (to a ridiculously high amount) and you boost damage with talents (Wildstrike and Greater Wildstrike, Savage Attack, Two Weapon Style, Weapon Focus Peasant, Outlander's Frenzy, Apprentice's Sneak and so on). Every damage mod, even if only 15%, works great because the base damage is so huge. Crits also add a ton of damage because of this - not only the tiny 50% of a usual weapon's base damage. If you take the Merciless Hand and add Dungeon Delver it gets even better. Also things like Wilder Hunter (+25% damage) do wonders.

 

The only items that have some use while spiritshifted are those that are designed for the shifted Druid and those with Spell Holdings or Spell Bindings.

 

The Wildstrike Belt also disappears when you shift, but with the action of shifting it triggers a timed elemental damage buff that lasts as long as you are shifted and gets add to the other wildstrike lashes.

 

The Spell Holding/Binding items also disappear of course, but the spells that got triggered before the shifting carry on. For example you can get a crit and trigger Consecrated Ground from Shod-in-Faith boots, then shift. Conserated Ground will carry on. Same with Frenzy from Sanguine Plate and so on.

 

And you can still cast spells when shifted. Avenging Storm for example is very good for a melee druid. It will add a quite powerful seperate shocking attack that also stuns each time you hit an enemy (and it also retaliates with thais effect when you get hit).

 

As I said above, the combination of that very high base damage (scaling claws) plus the 60% lash and things like Avenging Storm makes a shifted druid the top single target damage dealer - as long as he's shifted. There is nothing else that comes close to this. Also not a rogue with Deathblows + Backstab + crit with annihilation weapon (and that's a real chore to get).

 

My boar for example (who is not optimized for melee damage) constantly hits for >100 damage with the known speed of unarmed damage, then also adds wounding (usually around 20 to 30 raw) with every hit. Usually it takes not more than two hits to kill any mob. Also dragons fear his strikes. He can kill any dragon during shifting time at lvl 16 if somebody else cares about the adds. Scaling makes him very accurate, too.

 

That's cool. And how's the spell "Taste of the Hunt"? Is that in any way useful with a spirit shift build?

 

And what is that wounding thing you're talking about? I don't see that in any description.

[Boeroer]

Wounding Tusks are the spiritshifted boar's natural weapons. Its damage scales with MIG and also works very well with the high base damage. It does 20% wounding (raw DoT) damage and is the special (passive) feat of the boar - together with regeneration (about 3 points of endurance per 3 sec with decent MIG). It stacks with Veteran's Recovery (which also works while shifted). If you combine those two with Moon Godlike (also works when shifted) you can totally go the dps way without the fear of getting killed quickly. The boar has no active 1/rest ability when shifted like cat, stag or bear have.

 

Taste of the Hunt is nice if you need quick healing but you don't want to stop casting. Because when you are shifted you want to deliver as many blows as possible. Taste of the Hunt is "only" a primary attack, but it adds another raw DoT to the target and instantly gives you the damage you inflicted as endurance while hitting. It's only one attack though. I find it to be very circumstancial but sometimes it can save your buttocks. It's nothing I would use as spell mastery though.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Boeroer

[AeonsLegend]

Wounding Tusks are the spiritshifted boar's natural weapons. Its damage scales with MIG and also works very well with the high base damage. It does 20% wounding (raw DoT) damage and is the special (passive) feat of the boar - together with regeneration (about 3 points of endurance per 3 sec with decent MIG). It stacks with Veteran's Recovery (which also works while shifted). If you combine those two with Moon Godlike (also works when shifted) you can totally go the dps way without the fear of getting killed quickly. The boar has no active 1/rest ability when shifted like cat, stag or bear have.

Man, too bad its ugly af. Probably not going to use it. What are the other bonuses? Cats get more attack speed and another speed buff when activated. Stag get carnage and a defense buff. But what of Bears and Wolves?

 

And my question regarding Taste of the Hunt?

[Boeroer]

Sorry, edited the post above because I forgot to answer that.