Intelligence on a Damage Dealing Paladin

[TomReneth]

Just a quick question on how important Intelligence is on a damage dealing Paladin. Just looking over the abilities, it seems to not be very significant until level 13, when you get Sacred Immolation.

 

So, how important is Intelligence for a DPS Paladin?

[Boeroer]

If you don't plan to use a Goldpact Knight and take his Enduring Flames, it's not very important for your own dps until you get Sacred Immolation, as you already pointed out.

If you use weapons like Tidefall or Drawn in Spring, it's even better to have low INT. But some dps talents like Envenomend Strike will be bad with low INT.

 

There are some abilites of the paladin that don't use INT and can influence dps (if not yours then that of allies), like Sworn Enemy, FoD and Coordinated Attacks. But some of the best are gimped (at least for your fellows) when using low INT, like obviously Lay on Hands and the Zealous Auras.

[TomReneth]

If you don't plan to use a Goldpact Knight and take his Enduring Flames, it's not very important for your own dps until you get Sacred Immolation, as you already pointed out.

If you use weapons like Tidefall or Drawn in Spring, it's even better to have low INT. But some dps talents like Envenomend Strike will be bad with low INT.

 

There are some abilites of the paladin that don't use INT and can influence dps (if not yours then that of allies), like Sworn Enemy, FoD and Coordinated Attacks. But some of the best are gimped (at least for your fellows) when using low INT, like obviously Lay on Hands and the Zealous Auras.

I was thinking more in the line of staying with 10 Int. No bonus, no drawback. Until Immolation anyway. Just to have some extra points for other attributes early on.

 

Base stats, of course. I'll probably end up wearing a +2/3 item at some point.

Edited October 12, 2016 by TomReneth

[Kaylon]

Actually Enduring Flames benefits from the lowest INT possible. Because its total damage is fixed the INT just spreads it over more ticks which, unlike the raw damage, are reduced each time by the DR of the target. If you're not bothered about the range of your auras or you don't use exhortations you can safely dump completely your INT until you reach lv13.

[Boeroer]

Oh really? Good to know. Sorry for the misinformation. I thought it worked like Envenomed Strike or Deep Wounds. I didn't use it much to be honest. 

 

Then a Goldpact Knight with Tidefall or Drawn in Spring with max MIG and 3 INT (or even lower with appropriate items like the Ultimate Hat of Alluring Perfection from Stalwart, -2 INT/RES, +2 MIG/CON), Scion of Flame (for FoD and Intense Flames as well as for the burning lash on Tidefall) should be doing well. Could even take Fire Godlike: Battle Forged also doesn't care about INT and works with Scion of Flame. Too bad godlikes get a bonus on INT.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Boeroer

[Jojobobo]

I've always thought a 1 Int moron build might be quite fun (Int 3 with Ultimate Hat of Alluring Perfection), I guess a Paladin is probably best for the job as with their naturally high defences you're less dependent on Scrolls of Defence (which are worthless with low Int more or less) to get those defences up.

[KDubya]

If you don't want to retrain (something I try and avoid), sticking with a 10 Intellect works fine for a Paladin. With an item and some food you'll have a 14. This is plenty for an aura, and duration of your abilities.

 

Dumping to a 3 might help a Goldpact with his enduring flames damage but will really screw his LoH, exhortations and everything else that a Paladin can do. Not saying you can't make a fringe build work its just why would you bother other than to show that you can? Now if they had dumb conversations like Fallout had then it'd be a whole nother story. Too bad they don't make them like that anymore.

[Raven Darkholme]

If you don't want to retrain (something I try and avoid), sticking with a 10 Intellect works fine for a Paladin. With an item and some food you'll have a 14. This is plenty for an aura, and duration of your abilities.

 

Dumping to a 3 might help a Goldpact with his enduring flames damage but will really screw his LoH, exhortations and everything else that a Paladin can do. Not saying you can't make a fringe build work its just why would you bother other than to show that you can? Now if they had dumb conversations like Fallout had then it'd be a whole nother story. Too bad they don't make them like that anymore.

Disagree, if you don't want to respec max INT is mandatory.

If you respec at 13 I would be fine with 10 INT, 3 seems a bit extreme FoD is only 2 shots per encounter, while aura range is pretty important.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[Jojobobo]

Dumping to a 3 might help a Goldpact with his enduring flames damage but will really screw his LoH, exhortations and everything else that a Paladin can do. Not saying you can't make a fringe build work its just why would you bother other than to show that you can? Now if they had dumb conversations like Fallout had then it'd be a whole nother story. Too bad they don't make them like that anymore.

For me personally, I go 1 Int just to see if I could yes, just for the weird idea of it - though Arcanum/Fallout-esque low Int dialogue would make it better. I wasn't sure if you were addressing me or the OP.

 

I think Paladins are easily tanky enough that you can get away with a lower Int if you wanted it and go full tank, but the drawbacks of going lower Int on a Paladin are probably worse than a lot of the other classes and would likely make the run extremely boring (sky high defences at the trade off of watching them plink away with a melee weapon, lame).

[bigwillystyle]

The enduring flames damage issue isn't that bad, IMO.

 

When you trigger it, it calculates 50% of the damage done pre-DR and grosses that value up for Might modifier.  It then applies DR to that calculation and the DOT takes place.  Each tic of the DOT is not subject to further DR.

 

The DR that IS applied pre-DOT looks really small to me.  I was carving up the guys in Craigholdt bluffs last night and each hit (with Abydon's hammer) was for 40-50, the lash DOT was typically low 30s, and the DR offset was in the 2-3 DR range (it looked almost like 25% DR was being used instead of 50%, but I need to double check that specifically against Fire DR)

 

The thing that is annoying about the Enduring Flames impact is not it's damage, IMO, it's how darned long it takes to apply - with 20 INT and a crit, it takes 22.5 seconds to apply the full damage.  In the time the damage takes to hit, a mage or priest can typically pull off a heal

[Kaylon]

The enduring flames damage issue isn't that bad, IMO.

 

When you trigger it, it calculates 50% of the damage done pre-DR and grosses that value up for Might modifier.  It then applies DR to that calculation and the DOT takes place.  Each tic of the DOT is not subject to further DR.

 

The DR that IS applied pre-DOT looks really small to me.  I was carving up the guys in Craigholdt bluffs last night and each hit (with Abydon's hammer) was for 40-50, the lash DOT was typically low 30s, and the DR offset was in the 2-3 DR range (it looked almost like 25% DR was being used instead of 50%, but I need to double check that specifically against Fire DR)

 

The thing that is annoying about the Enduring Flames impact is not it's damage, IMO, it's how darned long it takes to apply - with 20 INT and a crit, it takes 22.5 seconds to apply the full damage.  In the time the damage takes to hit, a mage or priest can typically pull off a heal

That's not the way the DOT damage is calculated. The total damage is divided in ticks and each tick is reduced by the DR/4 of the target. 

[Ben No.3]

Hmm... Is it actually possible with very low int and heavy debuff to have a negative int? And if so how does it affect AoE?

[Jojobobo]

Like most games I think it just keeps 1 as a minimum even if the total combines for lower than 1.

[Dr <3]

Yes, 1 is minimum

 

Edit: instead you can have -1 to skills ( like stealth)

Edited October 13, 2016 by Dr <3

[bigwillystyle]

 

The enduring flames damage issue isn't that bad, IMO.

 

When you trigger it, it calculates 50% of the damage done pre-DR and grosses that value up for Might modifier.  It then applies DR to that calculation and the DOT takes place.  Each tic of the DOT is not subject to further DR.

 

The DR that IS applied pre-DOT looks really small to me.  I was carving up the guys in Craigholdt bluffs last night and each hit (with Abydon's hammer) was for 40-50, the lash DOT was typically low 30s, and the DR offset was in the 2-3 DR range (it looked almost like 25% DR was being used instead of 50%, but I need to double check that specifically against Fire DR)

 

The thing that is annoying about the Enduring Flames impact is not it's damage, IMO, it's how darned long it takes to apply - with 20 INT and a crit, it takes 22.5 seconds to apply the full damage.  In the time the damage takes to hit, a mage or priest can typically pull off a heal

That's not the way the DOT damage is calculated. The total damage is divided in ticks and each tick is reduced by the DR/4 of the target. 

 

 

OK.  That's not what shows up on the screen under "Additional Effects" for Flames of Devotion.  It explicitly says "47.9 - 3.0 DR = 44.9 damage as Burn"

 

I'm not doubting you, just saying that what shows up on the screen doesn't seem to match what you describe (wouldn't be the first time the data displayed did not match the actual activity behind the scenes!)

[Ben No.3]

Yes, 1 is minimum

 

Edit: instead you can have -1 to skills ( like stealth)

What happenes then? Do enemies gent a bonus?

[KDubya]

 

If you don't want to retrain (something I try and avoid), sticking with a 10 Intellect works fine for a Paladin. With an item and some food you'll have a 14. This is plenty for an aura, and duration of your abilities.

 

Dumping to a 3 might help a Goldpact with his enduring flames damage but will really screw his LoH, exhortations and everything else that a Paladin can do. Not saying you can't make a fringe build work its just why would you bother other than to show that you can? Now if they had dumb conversations like Fallout had then it'd be a whole nother story. Too bad they don't make them like that anymore.

Disagree, if you don't want to respec max INT is mandatory.

If you respec at 13 I would be fine with 10 INT, 3 seems a bit extreme FoD is only 2 shots per encounter, while aura range is pretty important.

 

 

Disclaimer - This is all based on group play at PotD, solo might be a very different animal -

 

Why is max Intellect necessary?

 

How big does your aura need to be? - Just big enough to cover the team members that you need it to, anything bigger is wasted. If you have a group at the frontlines and some dress wearers hiding 4+ meters away in the back then maybe you need a bigger aura. I keep my teams close together and for me a 10 Intellect (14 with easy items and food which can be up 100% of the time) is plenty of aura range.

 

How big of an area and how long duration does Sacred Immolation need? - Again enemies tend to clump around the melee scrum and a 10 Intellect gets a big enough area to get them all or at least enough of them. Plus the duration at 14 Intellect is like 36 seconds which is plenty, most everything is dead by then and if not its pretty close to it.

 

As long as the points not placed in Intellect are placed somewhere that furthers your build and playstyle then I'd say that you are fine. I like to make a Paladin with everything at ten and then distribute the remaining 18 points among whatever I want to focus on.

[Raven Darkholme]

 

 

If you don't want to retrain (something I try and avoid), sticking with a 10 Intellect works fine for a Paladin. With an item and some food you'll have a 14. This is plenty for an aura, and duration of your abilities.

 

Dumping to a 3 might help a Goldpact with his enduring flames damage but will really screw his LoH, exhortations and everything else that a Paladin can do. Not saying you can't make a fringe build work its just why would you bother other than to show that you can? Now if they had dumb conversations like Fallout had then it'd be a whole nother story. Too bad they don't make them like that anymore.

Disagree, if you don't want to respec max INT is mandatory.

If you respec at 13 I would be fine with 10 INT, 3 seems a bit extreme FoD is only 2 shots per encounter, while aura range is pretty important.

 

 

Disclaimer - This is all based on group play at PotD, solo might be a very different animal -

 

Why is max Intellect necessary?

 

How big does your aura need to be? - Just big enough to cover the team members that you need it to, anything bigger is wasted. If you have a group at the frontlines and some dress wearers hiding 4+ meters away in the back then maybe you need a bigger aura. I keep my teams close together and for me a 10 Intellect (14 with easy items and food which can be up 100% of the time) is plenty of aura range.

 

How big of an area and how long duration does Sacred Immolation need? - Again enemies tend to clump around the melee scrum and a 10 Intellect gets a big enough area to get them all or at least enough of them. Plus the duration at 14 Intellect is like 36 seconds which is plenty, most everything is dead by then and if not its pretty close to it.

 

As long as the points not placed in Intellect are placed somewhere that furthers your build and playstyle then I'd say that you are fine. I like to make a Paladin with everything at ten and then distribute the remaining 18 points among whatever I want to focus on.

 

It's not really a question of solo or party play, but:

The aura size is obviously only interesting for party play, not solo.

My point about the aura was only if you don't respec, otherwise 10 might be enough with smart positioning, but if you don't get max for SA you might as well get max from the start, bigger aura makes fights less micro intensive.

As to SA, only melees clump around you.

The times I had to disengage or engage smartly to affect all enemies with my max Int SA were plenty.

Also longer duration equals more damage, you might not always need it, but theres plenty of fight like Adra Animats where you'll be happy to have it.