Should the EU become the United States of Europe? What do you think?

[Ben No.3]

So this is an idea that I find extremely interesting, and I really want to see what you guys think. Please do give reasons in the comment section. Thanks for any shared opinions

[Ben No.3]

So, personally I voted for the second option. I must admit, the idea of having a EU nation is an idea I really like. I believe a single nation could bring both economical and political stability, as well as a big gain in international power. However, it is important that countries join out of free will, not because otherwise they'd be excluded from any kind of EU. So I went for the second option.

 

But I'm a bit of an idealist

[Chilloutman]

idealist or imperialist?

[obyknven]

Yes, under Russian rulership, but Europeans must await such happy times much longer - we can't conquer whole Europe yet.

[Ben No.3]

idealist or imperialist?

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliament (so every party gets the number of seats like votes... So if a party gets 30% of total votes, it gets 30% of seats in parliament).

Edited October 6, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Chilloutman]

 

idealist or imperialist?

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliament

 

 

it still sounds more like imperialist

 

Sorry I don't want to be rude (I know its sensitive spot for Germans) but there is some historical precedence on what happen when Germany want united Europe

[pmp10]

Only if it proves capable of significant self-reform.

[Gfted1]

I chose the first option, yes it should. But all Ive ever known is a "United States" and I think the multiple culteral differences in Europe would prevent a true USoE. Until the next world reshaping event anyway.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

idealist or imperialist?

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliament

it still sounds more like imperialist

 

Sorry I don't want to be rude (I know its sensitive spot for Germans) but there is some historical precedence on what happen when Germany want united Europe

Ha, not rude... Don't worry... Yeah we did indeed try to conquer Europe several times, but it always ended in disaster

It is obviously a problem though how to unite Europe without makingcertain countries more powerful, but I'm sure we can work out

[BruceVC]

So this is an idea that I find extremely interesting, and I really want to see what you guys think. Please do give reasons in the comment section. Thanks for any shared opinions

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this  not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation. I am also a supporter of the EU so this poll is interesting

 

I dont think you could archive a political reality like the US because the member states in the EU already complain about " lack of sovereignty " so a US model would be even less autonomous  than the EU currently has ? 

Edited October 6, 2016 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

idealist or imperialist?

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliament

it still sounds more like imperialist

 

Sorry I don't want to be rude (I know its sensitive spot for Germans) but there is some historical precedence on what happen when Germany want united Europe

Ha, not rude... Don't worry... Yeah we did indeed try to conquer Europe several times, but it always ended in disaster

It is obviously a problem though how to unite Europe without makingcertain countries more powerful, but I'm sure we can work out

 

Dont get offended but there is some unreasonable "anti-German "  sentiment from some members on this forum, its not malicious but some members think Germany has made several bad decisions lately. LIke Merkel initially allowing all the refugees into the EU...anyway this may lead to some negative views to your initial question

 

But I like your perspective

[Ben No.3]

I chose the first option, yes it should. But all Ive ever known is a "United States" and I think the multiple culteral differences in Europe would prevent a true USoE. Until the next world reshaping event anyway.

Yes, the differences are quite big. It would need to be the most international nation yet. But it is imo the best way to assure both peace and prosperity for all Europeans...

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

 

 

idealist or imperialist?

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliament

it still sounds more like imperialist

 

Sorry I don't want to be rude (I know its sensitive spot for Germans) but there is some historical precedence on what happen when Germany want united Europe

Ha, not rude... Don't worry... Yeah we did indeed try to conquer Europe several times, but it always ended in disaster

It is obviously a problem though how to unite Europe without makingcertain countries more powerful, but I'm sure we can work out

Dont get offended but there is some unreasonable "anti-German " sentiment from some members on this forum, its not malicious but some members think Germany has made several bad decisions lately. LIke Merkel initially allowing all the refugees into the EU...anyway this may lead to some negative views to your initial question

 

But I like your perspective

Yeah, I'm living in London atm, and I can definitely agree on that . But hey, I'm getting used to t. And I still think taking in refugees is the only right thing to do, at least for a rich country like Germany

 

I do however understand a certain... Historical fear of German imperialism (we really messed up a lot of things). I think it's safe to say we moved on... By now, I think we created one of the worlds nicest countries. And we could do that due to our wonderful economy, is just imagine what an United European economy could archive for the people

Edited October 6, 2016 by Ben No.3

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

idealist or imperialist?

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliament

it still sounds more like imperialist

 

Sorry I don't want to be rude (I know its sensitive spot for Germans) but there is some historical precedence on what happen when Germany want united Europe

Ha, not rude... Don't worry... Yeah we did indeed try to conquer Europe several times, but it always ended in disaster

It is obviously a problem though how to unite Europe without makingcertain countries more powerful, but I'm sure we can work out

Dont get offended but there is some unreasonable "anti-German " sentiment from some members on this forum, its not malicious but some members think Germany has made several bad decisions lately. LIke Merkel initially allowing all the refugees into the EU...anyway this may lead to some negative views to your initial question

 

But I like your perspective

Yeah, I'm living in London atm, and I can definitely agree on that . But hey, I'm getting used to t. And I still think taking in refugees is the only right thing to do, at least for a rich country like Germany

 

For me I still support Merkel as I absolutely believe she is a brilliant leader and I firmly believe in the sustainability of the EU

 

Also the initial offer from Germany was generous and altruistic, 1.3 milllion Syrians been offered a new life. But then the floodgates were torn open and the EU was expected to absorb 4 million refugees from countries that were governed under Sharia law outside of Syria ...its an unfair and difficult objective to expect the EU and its member  states to just accept this 

 

My view was now radically changed  because I'm very concerned with populist right wing political parties using the anti-immigration view to break up the EU

 

Even in  Germany Merkel's political party has lost some local elections, it would be myopic to ignore this frustration from  many EU citizens. And based on the reality I can understand why many EU citizens are unhappy with the number of refugees coming into the EU

 

So I want to resolve this as I dont want the EU to be negatively impacted in the future 

[Ben No.3]

 

 

So this is an idea that I find extremely interesting, and I really want to see what you guys think. Please do give reasons in the comment section. Thanks for any shared opinions

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation. I am also a supporter of the EU so this poll is interesting

 

I dont think you could archive a political reality like the US because the member states in the EU already complain about " lack of sovereignty " so a US model would be even less autonomous than the EU currently has ?

I am not a great believer in the American voting system ("winner takes it all"). I think what would work best is a system like in Germany right now:

 

Everyone votes and every party gets the number of seats in parliament that they have of votes. So for example a party with 40% o all votes gets 40% of all seats.

 

That way everyone is represented exactly how the people wanted it, and it also gives the minorities quite some power since the major parties need to corporate with them in order to get a winning vote.

 

I also think parliament should elect the president, so people like trump can be avoided

 

For a United Europe it would also be far easier to spread money equally across the former countries, and also many of the economic crisis caused by the euro would simply not happen. The right tendencies right now originate in economical unhappiness blamed on politics, so that can be helped much easier with one country. As I said, the USE would become a major power, especially economically

Edited October 6, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Chilloutman]

not a big supporter of direct democracy huh? yeah another reason why I don't want EU nation. I really don't know which answer from poll to pick, I want EU to go back to its roots as free movement of people and goods inside EU. I don't want EU government as small nations being ignored is pretty much guaranteed now.

 

And don't get me started on that economy of Germany

Edited October 6, 2016 by Chilloutman

[Meshugger]

No, voluntary cooperation between states via trade deals that follow the ideals of open trade.

 

Everything else is Napoleon-LARPing.

[BruceVC]

not a big supporter of direct democracy huh? yeah another reason why I don't want EU nation. I really don't know which answer from poll to pick, I want EU to go back to its roots as free movement of people and goods inside EU. I don't EU government as small nations being ignored is pretty much guaranteed now.

 

And don't get me started on that economy of Germany

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control  from Brussels 

 

This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad

[Chilloutman]

 

not a big supporter of direct democracy huh? yeah another reason why I don't want EU nation. I really don't know which answer from poll to pick, I want EU to go back to its roots as free movement of people and goods inside EU. I don't EU government as small nations being ignored is pretty much guaranteed now.

 

And don't get me started on that economy of Germany

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control  from Brussels 

 

This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad

 

 

Of course you can, its just Brussels don't want it. its different story. Free movement of people and goods doesn't require to police agriculture for example. 

[Chilloutman]

No, voluntary cooperation between states via trade deals that follow the ideals of open trade.

 

Everything else is Napoleon-LARPing.

 

You are against free movement of people within EU as well?

[Pidesco]

The choice is between an eventually culturally united Europe, generalized strife and war, or the United Republic of Nestlé (replace corporation name to taste). I go with the first option.

[BruceVC]

 

 

not a big supporter of direct democracy huh? yeah another reason why I don't want EU nation. I really don't know which answer from poll to pick, I want EU to go back to its roots as free movement of people and goods inside EU. I don't EU government as small nations being ignored is pretty much guaranteed now.

 

And don't get me started on that economy of Germany

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control  from Brussels 

 

This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad

 

 

Of course you can, its just Brussels don't want it. its different story. Free movement of people and goods doesn't require to police agriculture for example. 

 

Its not that simple, the EU works because of the relatively strict enforcement of rules and expectations from Brussels

 

You cant pick and choose what suits you  even if I can empathize with some of your criticism

 

Thats why other unions who have tried to copy the EU have failed miserably, like the Arab League and the African Union...they dont enforce the rules or implement  good governance 

[Meshugger]

 

No, voluntary cooperation between states via trade deals that follow the ideals of open trade.

 

Everything else is Napoleon-LARPing.

 

You are against free movement of people within EU as well?

 

 

Free movement of people is implied by having open trade deals. But if one country wants to become the next Belarus, then let them, and it will fall by itself.

 

The choice is between an eventually culturally united Europe, generalized strife and war, or the United Republic of Nestlé (replace corporation name to taste). I go with the first option.

 

Why are there only those two options and what do you base them on?

Edited October 6, 2016 by Meshugger

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

not a big supporter of direct democracy huh? yeah another reason why I don't want EU nation. I really don't know which answer from poll to pick, I want EU to go back to its roots as free movement of people and goods inside EU. I don't EU government as small nations being ignored is pretty much guaranteed now.

 

And don't get me started on that economy of Germany

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control  from Brussels 

 

This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad

 

 

Of course you can, its just Brussels don't want it. its different story. Free movement of people and goods doesn't require to police agriculture for example. 

 

Its not that simple, the EU works because of the relatively strict enforcement of rules and expectations from Brussels

 

You cant pick and choose what suits you  even if I can empathize with some of your criticism

 

Thats why other unions who have tried to copy the EU have failed miserably, like the Arab League and the African Union...they dont enforce the rules or implement  good governance 

 

 

you are completely misguided, I am talking about trade and free movement of people and you are still talking about internal affairs of independent nations need to be regulated by Brussel. Only regulations for customs are relevant to free trade, nothing else. You ar just another imperialist who thinks that bigger and 'better' states should impose their views on others (funny you kinda support 'preying on the weak')

[Pidesco]

 

 

No, voluntary cooperation between states via trade deals that follow the ideals of open trade.

 

Everything else is Napoleon-LARPing.

 

You are against free movement of people within EU as well?

 

 

Free movement of people is implied by having open trade deals. But if one country wants to become the next Belarus, then let them, and it will fall by itself.

 

The choice is between an eventually culturally united Europe, generalized strife and war, or the United Republic of Nestlé (replace corporation name to taste). I go with the first option.

 

Why are there only those two options and what do you base them on?

 

 

Three options, you mean. To answer your question, a history of conflict and wars over the past 2000 years is what I base my prediction on.