Non-PotD Chanter.. need info on the exact role in party.

[Slack83er]

Hi all fellow players,

 

After reading Jojobobo's Gunslinger in the builds section (great build, many credits to him) I came up with the intention of building a Chanter. Of course, I want it to be different from the gunslinger, and would like him to be melee... or use wands eventually... What I'm skeptical on is... which role does he have in the party? The wikia says "leader" but this could mean lotta things... party buffer... party talker... so I'm asking to you....I dunno what to make of it...

 

I've also noticed he's pretty fragile at start...shall I put heavy armor on? He'll get slowed down a lot from a heavy armor, and I thought I could go two hands...

 

Do you have any advices, maybe you already played it and know how it works?

 

 

[Blades of Vanatar]

Chanter is definitely NOT fragile. Avg health endurance and decent deflection make him a possible frontliner. His abilities (chants) don't require speed aka Dex. So heavier armor is ok to wear. Sword and board will do him fine. He is not a melee beast but can be decent with dps. Check some of the Chanter builds in this forum. Boeroer's Drake's Ambassador is POTENT....

Edited October 1, 2016 by Blades of Vanatar

[Reent]

I have to say: in a non PotD party... a Chanter is mediocre, fine if you don't know what to do with your other 5 characters, but if you do - i'd say every other class is better, you shouldnt be able to use more than one invocation per fight... ok, there are a few fights where he can do more... but i dont see that you'd use a full slot for that...

ok, dragon thrashed is good enough so you can use a melee chanter... put him in the most durable armor, give him the biggest shield - make him a mobile fortress and let the world burn (or give him the fire lash - thats fine too)

 

But seriously, a Chanter needs long fights or dragon thrashed/fire lash... and thats not really exiting, rather a different character with many abilities you could use every fight... if you build an MC where all you do in about 95% of the fights is "attack the next enemy"

[Loren Tyr]

One thing you'll have to decide on is whether to put more focus on Chanting or Invocations. One strategy is to go for the higher level phrases, which of course have stronger effects in themselves but take longer as well so it can take quite a while to build up to an invocation. The opposite strategy would be to stick primarily to level 1 phrases (maybe throw in an occasional higher level one) to build up phrases much more quickly to get to your invocations. The latter strategy does benefit more from not getting too slow, since you only start chanting again once the recovery of your invocation has ended. 

[Slack83er]

Chanter is definitely NOT fragile. Avg health endurance and decent deflection make him a possible frontliner. His abilities (chants) don't require speed aka Dex. So heavier armor is ok to wear. Sword and board will do him fine. He is not a melee beast but can be decent with dps. Check some of the Chanter builds in this forum. Boeroer's Drake's Ambassador is POTENT....

 

Well I didn't mean it will be fragile forever, but at the very start, I personally found him to be quite squishy. I also don't like a classic sword 'n board, it's too.... common... It's true that chant don't require dex, but attacks do... I don't want to only chant and do nothing else...

 

Reent, would that mean that I'd be better off with another character? I noticed on another playthrough that Kana had the same problem... not being able to reach the 3rd chant, and thus no invocations, but I thought it was just a case.... 

[Slack83er]

One thing you'll have to decide on is whether to put more focus on Chanting or Invocations. One strategy is to go for the higher level phrases, which of course have stronger effects in themselves but take longer as well so it can take quite a while to build up to an invocation. The opposite strategy would be to stick primarily to level 1 phrases (maybe throw in an occasional higher level one) to build up phrases much more quickly to get to your invocations. The latter strategy does benefit more from not getting too slow, since you only start chanting again once the recovery of your invocation has ended. 

I didn't know these two strategies, thanks for sharing. Now... which one does better complement a group? I'd guess the chants... since their effect is continuous... And how then to complement this build? Do I have to be in the middle of the fray or my invocations will work wherever I am on the battlefield? 

[Boeroer]

Chanters chant faster every 4 levels every 3 levels, starting with lvl 4. At lvl 16 you will gain points on your phrase counter so quickly with lvl 1 phrases that you don't know where to put all the invocations. With high DEX and light armor you can paralyze-lock whole groups. This is always useful, be it normal or PoTD difficulty.

But it's true that on earlier levels a chanter gets better and better the longer the fights last. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to pick PoTD, although this leads to longer fights of course, but can also mean you choose a defensive approach (with many tanky chars) where you don't get hurt a lot, but also don't dish out a lot of damage at the same time.

There's also an approach where all party members get move speed bonus and ranged attack speed bonus from the chanter and all pick Shot on the Run.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Boeroer

[Slack83er]

Mmm I don't think I'd enjoy an all ranged... I like variety.. I didn't know that chanters increase speed in 4 lvls... The fact that this character has an auto-passive effect in combat appeals me a LOT, but I don't come out with an archetype, an IDEA behind the character... (meanwhile I'm playing my ranger, you know..) nor I know which race (even if I'm strongly orlan-oriented) or bg.... still far from playing...

[Raven Darkholme]

Chanter is a good tank even on lower levels.

You get +10 Reflex on the Wengrith's chant and if you combine it with Soft winds (Wengrith 1st) you build a phantom very quickly.

You can with the help of the speed pull enemies with a ranged weapon and once the enemies reach you and your party (ideally your party is a bit away so you run towards them to have a second or two more to build those phrases) (you switch to small shield and hatchet on the run) your phantom ideally is built up and can be sent into the fray it recks at lower levels.

As soon as you get a third chant you pick at the Sight of their comrades, which is an aura and gives you and your party +10 Fort and Will at that point your defenses are like a paladin, keep in mind that the small shield in Gilded Vale buffs your whole party if you have as pala the chanter also benefits.

Cast Wengrith first, then the aura then Soft winds, very fast phantom, thank you very much chanter.

[Reent]

lvl 1=0%, 4=10%, 7=20%, 10=30%, 13=40%, 16=50% chant speed reduction - so every 3 levels.

In a tanky group chanters can do a bit more even early on, however if you have a party that deals a bit damage, you need at least lvl 10 to build your stacks fast enough to really do something, sure, lvl 13/16 with lvl 1 chants he is quite active - but thats pretty late into a playthrough.

I played a kinda tanky group with 1 MC chanter PotD, despite not enchanting items and not searching for the right weapon, the chanter didnt do anything but chant dragon thrashed a few times before the fight was over - that was the case in about every non kite non bossfight (so, if my badly equipped group could deal with the enemies without tricks, my chanter didnt use any invocations at all) - not really exciting, for me thats okay since i really like to see the world burn (but i tend to do nothing with everyone else (and i never ever let the AI use abilities) just to see the enemies burn a bit longer)

[Slack83er]

So it's best to make it both ranged and melee, depending on the circumstances? I'd like wand or scepter.... but maybe even firearms... too bad I can't use 2 pistols...haha 

[Raven Darkholme]

If you really want melee I'd just use ranged to open a fight.

If you rather want guns that's fine, too. ;P

Wand or scepter should be ok, too as Reent said, once you reach level 9 Dragon slashed is awesome and I don't see how that's different on non PotD, even on PotD I never use invocations from 9 on, since you stack the chant on foes if your IN is high enough you should also crit more often due to easy difficulty which means stacking should be even more effective.

I feel like all the chanter PotD arguments are based around invocations but those are only op before level 9 and that should go for easy too since getting phantom is really fast if you use speed, fort/will and Soft winds in that order.

[Slack83er]

Thank you Raven for your insight. Which race best suits this kind of play? I thought of Orlans... but I'm open to suggestions... 

As for Stats, I thought of a high INT but then...what follows?

[Blades of Vanatar]

 

 

Chanter is definitely NOT fragile. Avg health endurance and decent deflection make him a possible frontliner. His abilities (chants) don't require speed aka Dex. So heavier armor is ok to wear. Sword and board will do him fine. He is not a melee beast but can be decent with dps. Check some of the Chanter builds in this forum. Boeroer's Drake's Ambassador is POTENT....

Well I didn't mean it will be fragile forever, but at the very start, I personally found him to be quite squishy. I also don't like a classic sword 'n board, it's too.... common... It's true that chant don't require dex, but attacks do... I don't want to only chant and do nothing else...

 

Reent, would that mean that I'd be better off with another character? I noticed on another playthrough that Kana had the same problem... not being able to reach the 3rd chant, and thus no invocations, but I thought it was just a case....

Any early game class in Brigadine Armor which is purchasable in Gilded Vale is not squishy. Add any 1 handed with shield and he can tank. Or add dual/2hander and you can dish. Just pick your chants to accommodate play style of choice.

 

I have soloed with a Dual Battle Axe Borreal Chanter. Turned him into a berserker. Tons of fun. Especially when you start summoning Ogres and Drakes to join in.

[Slack83er]

Any early game class in Brigadine Armor which is purchasable in Gilded Vale is not squishy. Add any 1 handed with shield and he can tank. Or add dual/2hander and you can dish. Just pick your chants to accommodate play style of choice.

 

I have soloed with a Dual Battle Axe Borreal Chanter. Turned him into a berserker. Tons of fun. Especially when you start summoning Ogres and Drakes to join in.

 

I didn't give him the plate, as from a roleplay point of view I don't see a chanter wearing heavy metal plate... but yes, you're right. I'd like to follow the "evocation path" but really don't like the sword and board.... maybe two handed.... but still I'm far from sold on the concept... More convinced on the "noble with a scepter"...

[Boeroer]

What stops you? With the tier-2-chant "Sure Handed Ila", which stacks with the later "Their Champion Braved the Horde alone" you can shoot really, really fast.

There are some nice rods and sceptres in the game. And they all have two damage types, which makes them quite flexible. You can even give him the Stormcaller bow - enemies will be shocked...   But I remember you don't have the expansions, or do you?

Edited October 1, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah Orlan for tank but if you go two handed Moon godlike might be better.

[Slack83er]

What stops you? With the tier-2-chant "Sure Handed Ila", which stacks with the later "Their Champion Braved the Horde alone" you can shoot really, really fast.

There are some nice rods and sceptres in the game. And they all have two damage types, which makes them quite flexible. You can even give him the Stormcaller bow - enemies will be shocked...   But I remember you don't have the expansions, or do you?

Not yet Boeroer, but I'll take them soon. It's really worth it afaik. So you say go noble? And I'd agree with Raven for the Moon Glike...

[Reent]

If you really want melee I'd just use ranged to open a fight.

If you rather want guns that's fine, too. ;P

Wand or scepter should be ok, too as Reent said, once you reach level 9 Dragon slashed is awesome and I don't see how that's different on non PotD, even on PotD I never use invocations from 9 on, since you stack the chant on foes if your IN is high enough you should also crit more often due to easy difficulty which means stacking should be even more effective.

I feel like all the chanter PotD arguments are based around invocations but those are only op before level 9 and that should go for easy too since getting phantom is really fast if you use speed, fort/will and Soft winds in that order.

For me its more like: before lvl 9 you dont really have anything worth using at the time you can use it - most fights are over before your DoT deals more than "insignificant" damage, the CC spells are too late to change anything... after lvl 9, the first dragon thrashed hits most likely - one or none because of the high distance at fight start (ok, you can put one lvl 1 chant first, thats better, however if i remember correctly, after stun etc you start at the beginning, so thats a problem) - and thats what makes him mediocre for me in non PotD, the fight is over before his damage is relevant in most fights add the playstyle and you have one character who isn't that fun

[Slack83er]

Mmm Reent, you're dissuading me...

[Reent]

chanter is my favorite class, its the class i put in over 70% of my gametime (solo PotD ToI)... but everytime i use a party i either use the chanter to kill everything or he is a "lower the enemy endurance by 30-60" character - while my barb finishes everyone in range within a few moments... or *insert interesting activities*

[Slack83er]

I can see why it's your favourite class... but I wouldn't see it in a solo game... it's like a bard, he's social, his abilities boost the others... I like this aspect...

[Reent]

I can't see my Chanter in a Party - he is the hatchet murderer! Almost all the time he runs around with a hatchet (very important, the hatchet isn't enchanted) in a hand and singing... the whole world is burning everywhere he goes!

[Slack83er]

Buahuahuahauah!!! The crazy murderous chanter!!! 

[rheingold]

Chanters are great, as many people have mentioned there are a number of approaches... Ranged, tank, dps(at high level). I personally like dwarves. And I quite like the winter of the World Series, so a boreal dwarf from white that wends with the laborer (smith) background is great especially for white March. With relatively high might, resolve, Int and lore gets a lot of dialogue checks. Also ends up as a smith being the mechanics trap guy. With all of that he is a beastly dps character, and an awesome tank. And he switches easily from passive to active just by switching chants. Probably my favourite character and that includes my nature godlike Druid. Ticks all the boxes from power to role playing and thats not easy.

Edited October 1, 2016 by rheingold