Should the Dark Side be more 'seductive'?

[Orchomene]

So, you are suggesting that "los[ing] vitality points or constitution to show the corruption of the body" will make the DS more seductive ?

How to make it more seductive without it being as powerful.

 

And, by the way, Yoda is partial.

[Frosty_V2.1]

I don't think showing corruption of the body through stat adjustment or what have you is the way to go (we already have hit die for classes), I'd be satisfied with just having some effect on NPCs or some such or maybe an "aura" (effects NPCs nearby - like bonuses or penalties) though I think that may be used for class specific purposes (which was mentioned for Jedi Master).

 

Some moral ambiguity in dialogue could help alot methinks, I suppose to a certain degree it should be clear to the player that "this option is probably naughty". Would show that you must be careful and that it only takes small steps to start slipping to the dark side.

[Bantha Fodder]

The Dark Side dialoge options should be more subtle, making an evil deed look more more appealing and not so overtly evil looking. The way to getting Dark side points in KOTOR was obvious, forcing people to hand their credits over, simply killing them or by using Force Dominate Mind to allow you to pass. Quests that are seemingly good could actually be a trick of the Dark side. Also dark side characters within the party could entice the player to fall to the Dark Side eg. Canderous, HK-47. I think Obsidian should be careful to portray the fact that good and evil don't always come clearly labled at first glance.

[Lohengrin]

Id like to see the opportunity to get ds points for acting in anger or affection to. This is a major theme in the movies but was sorely lacking in Kotor. Maybe something like being being confronted with slavers, somewhere were slavery is legal, who arent aggressive but refuses to release their captives. The only way to save the slaves would be to kill the captors and get ds points for doing so.

 

The lack of any such real dilemmas made being ls in kotor very easy. The way to the darkside shouldnt only be through being mean and sadistic, but also through being unable to compromise on your own ideals and ignoring the jedi strictures.

[Bantha Fodder]

I agree with you here, the Light Side is supposed to be the hard way to go and the Dark side the easy way. I must comment on the slaves thing: Killing the captors for good does'nt make it right, so initially you should ONLY get Dark side points.

 

To make the Light side harder NPCs could be harder to persuade to do what you want. Maybey they become easily angered, forcing you to fight giving you Dark side ponts.

[Antagonist]

I don't know the D20 source material but from a pure movie point of view the idea of decaying bodies etc. sounds stupid. I will only refer to the Original Trilogy (the holy one) because I think the Prequels are inferior and messed up with Star Wars badly.

 

For instance, Vader never wore his armor to hide his failing body due to him using the darkside but because he lost a duel with Obi-Wan and he lost it bad. :ph34r:

 

As for the emporers odd appearance in RotJ I always understood that it was because he was OLD. Obviously the force can extend ones lifespan if used by a powerful wielder which the emperor undoubtly was. In RotJ Vader must have been already 60 so I imagined that the emperor was ancient and only alive due to him being a master of the darkside.

 

In ESB Yoda tells us quickly that the darkside isn't stronger. It offers an alternative access to the force which doesn't require control and effort. It's strenght is seduction not fancy powers. Before RotJ Vader planned to overthrow the Emperor with Luke's help, he had no internal conflict. He was evil, but cunning. He must have thought that with his son he would be able to assume galactic control.

 

Why did he end like a sissy in RotJ ? Because Lucas lost interest in Star Wars and dropped every interesting plot raised by ESB and revisioned Star Wars as the Redemtion of Anakin Skywalker. But before that, Vader was in no need for it. He was evil and I wished his case would have been handled differently. Heck, in Star Wars he wasn't even meant to be Luke's father.

 

Antagonist

[Shdy314]

Id like to see the opportunity to get ds points for acting in anger or affection to. This is a major theme in the movies but was sorely lacking in Kotor. Maybe something like being being confronted with slavers, somewhere were slavery is legal, who arent aggressive but refuses to release their captives. The only way to save the slaves would be to kill the captors and get ds points for doing so.

 

The lack of any such real dilemmas made being ls in kotor very easy. The way to the darkside shouldnt only be through being mean and sadistic, but also through being unable to compromise on your own ideals and ignoring the jedi strictures.

Agreed about the lack of dilemma's but I think a Jedi has a lot more option than just his/her lightsaber to solve their problems. And that is what an LS Jedi would do. Dominate: Mind, sneak in and set the slaves all free, disarm the guards non violently. I don't think freeing the slaves is DS. Choosing to kill the slavers who aren't technically breaking the law is. I don't think the force or Jedi council judges by what the law is on a particular planet. At least it shouldn't because that'd be retarded. It should be about how you choose to handle said dilemma. Or let your NPCs that don't have to worry about DS dilemmas handle it.

[Lohengrin]

Id like to see the opportunity to get ds points for acting in anger or affection to. This is a major theme in the movies but was sorely lacking in Kotor. Maybe something like being being confronted with slavers, somewhere were slavery is legal,

[Shdy314]

You're absolutely right except I don't think a Jedi would fall from such things as freeing slaves (provided he didn't always kill to do it) He'd just be a gray Jedi like Jolee. And the Jedi Code doesn't say you must repesect every law on every planet. They should really only be expected to uphold the laws of the Republic and their own morality/humanity. I think a Jedi could fall just as easily by interpreting the Jedi Code to mean he can never get involved unless ordered to by the Council or Senate. And then idly standing by as people suffer. B) Something to think about.

[Atreides]

This i feal would give a good impression on what a dark jedi

[Drakron]

Actually is the force powers that make the change, dark side powers tend to be offensive at low level and lightside powers thed to be offensive at higher levels, they balance out.

 

That is the "easier, quicker" of the darkside, at low level dark side powers offer a quick way to end combat and also lets not forget its always tempting to use the force to make others to obey, there is a thin line when using force persuade powers

 

Also there are diferences of the dark side and the Sith, the Sith developed some unique powers and abilities with the use of the dark side of the force, we can say is not the dark side is the unbalance to the force but rather the Sith that bring a unbalance to the force with their manipulation of the force.

[sniggy]

So, you are suggesting that "los[ing] vitality points or constitution to show the corruption of the body" will make the DS more seductive ?

How to make it more seductive without it being as powerful.

 

And, by the way, Yoda is partial.

well the seductive thing about it is reflected in d20 as more dice per DS point- though i don't think that makes it seductive either. it's seductive to just enforce one's own will to others (via dominate mind) or use force lightning to kill others, though.

[Seth Tansill]

Im a bit confused by this 'calling on the Dark side of the Force' idea... does that mean by just using a dark force power, or having some sort of, er, *dark calling* button to amplify your attacks or something? If you are talking about the powers... I agree. I think force heal should give you a slight nudge in the LS direction and choke/lightning etc should give you DS. The only problem I can see with this is that you could become exploitative and decide to get LS/DS mastery straight away just by using powers over and over. Or are you just talking about DS here? Sorry, can't be bothered to read too in depth, skim-reading is the way forward Sounds cool though.

[Darque]

Actually is the force powers that make the change, dark side powers tend to be offensive at low level and lightside powers thed to be offensive at higher levels, they balance out.

 

That is the "easier, quicker" of the darkside, at low level dark side powers offer a quick way to end combat and also lets not forget its always tempting to use the force to make others to obey, there is a thin line when using force persuade powers

 

Also there are diferences of the dark side and the Sith, the Sith developed some unique powers and abilities with the use of the dark side of the force, we can say is not the dark side is the unbalance to the force but rather the Sith that bring a unbalance to the force with their manipulation of the force.

That's actually a very good point Drakron.

[Bless]

Er, what if people aren't choosing the DS because it's "easier". That's one qualm I have with all this Sith bashing. Go ahead and do it, I know that's common view, but you're making it sound like we're lazy prigs.

 

Do you know how difficult mass genocide is?! It's like an endurance trial man. Mass Genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in!

 

. . . Next to soccer. :ph34r: Which I play as well.

 

We aren't lazy!

[Kdy-worker 1138]

Sure you

[Bless]

LMAO! Well, I prefer doing it the old fashioned way. Give it my own personal touch, and flare.

 

Heh. Plus, seeing your enemies eyes glaze over as you lay waste to their city and slaughter the rest of them without a thought is an experience the Death Star just cannot reproduce.

[Kdy-worker 1138]

But it

[Bless]

*Starts laughing*

 

At least we have cooler looking ships! *Wants her own fake, little moon that has the capacity to blow up planets.* Not so much to use, more of a party trick.

 

And our explosions are so much more spectacular . . .

[Bantha Fodder]

Err..... Back to the Topic.

 

You could get DS points for breaking the Jedi code in some way. Maybe LS powers could use more force points, and the DS powers could use less FP, no matter on your Light and Darks side metre. I think this DS calling power is a good idea, but in the end the Light will ALWAYS prevail. If you are a LS Jedi you could gain DS points by investing and using deak powers.

[Kdy-worker 1138]

Well the way to do is rather simple ...when the charecter nears some point (75% or something) on the dark

[Bless]

Bah, redemption. I'll pass, thanks.

 

I like that percentage thing. I've never used light powers so I won't really miss them. So that's a neat idea.

[Kdy-worker 1138]

Not even a single heal..when nobody was watching?

[Darque]

Heal is overrated.

 

Stims, Drain Life... there's always options.

[Meshugger]

Id like to see the opportunity to get ds points for acting in anger or affection to. This is a major theme in the movies but was sorely lacking in Kotor. Maybe something like being being confronted with slavers, somewhere were slavery is legal,  who arent aggressive but refuses to release their captives. The only way to save the slaves would be to kill the captors and get ds points for doing so.

 

The lack of any such real dilemmas made being ls in kotor very easy. The way to the darkside shouldnt only be through being mean and sadistic, but also through being unable to compromise on your own ideals and ignoring the jedi strictures.

I really like the idea. Posing moral dilemmas where your PC thinks that he did the right thing, but instead it just leads to further destruction --> DS points.