Vulnerable Attack or Cautious Attack for my Darcozzi Support (Forward Observer) build

[Torm51]

If you google or have been on the forums a while you know about my Darcozzi Paladini extreme accuracy buffer for PotD build.  He is a solid tank with kick ass abilities that grants the group extreme dps and criticals on CC.  The only snag in the build is what to do at level 4.  I can either grab vulnerable attack.  This guy is not the greatest individual fighter but is extremely hard to kill and with vulnerable attack he can efficiently kill mid to low DR targets.  So everything that is not a boss.  Even plate wearers he can wear down by himself.  If I ever get into a situation where I am the last one alive (trial of iron as always) he has the capability to kill stuff.  Also his attributes are not to power gamey but he does have 16 MIGHT so his auto attacks on non big boss type targets hit pretty hard.  Obviously once he gets Immolation with his 16 Might (which will be buffed by then) his offense will be more then acceptable for his role on top of bringing more endurance heals.

 

Or I can go with cautious attack and add more to his already awesome defenses.  What do you guys think? here is the build.

 

1. Lay on Hands

2. Weapon and Shield Style

3. Zealous Focus

4. Vulnerable Attack or Cautious Attack?

5. Liberating Exhortation

6. Inspiring Liberation 

7. Reviving Exhortation

8. Superior Deflection

9. Coordinated Attacks

10. Deep Faith

11. Aegis of Loyalty

12. Greater Lay on Hands

13. Sacred Immolation

14. Scion of Flame

15. Righteous Soul

Edited April 27, 2016 by Torm51

[Boeroer]

Phew - hard to tell. To be honest I'm also thinking about taking both and skip greater LoH. With both you can always switch from speedier offense to offense against higher DR to defense mode. Greater Lay on Hands ist most of the time overhealing anyways.

 

But if I would have to decide between the two I think I would go for Vulnerable Attack. This also works with retaliation (you migh want to wear Garodh's Chorus or Hiro's Mantle) and also with scrolls and spell bindings that count as melee (Jolting Touch mostly). By the way retaliation now also profits from high ACC and can crit.

 

On the other hand: once you get Sacred Immolation you can forget Vulnerable Attack - then Cautious Attack would be better to make you even more sturdy. So maybe take Vuln. Attack at level 4 and retrain to Cautious Attack at lvl 13? 

[MaxQuest]

From one point of view, comparing to dedicated dps'ers his melee dmg output can be neglected, so there is not that much incentive to go for Vulnerable Attack.

 

From another, giving him extra deflection, while increasing his tankiness also gives more incentive for enemies to go after other team members.

 

How about Critical Focus?

Edited April 27, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Blunderboss]

Critical Focus would fit buffing character more than attack modals , also hit to crit conversion is basically accuracy just in another form 

[Torm51]

From one point of view, comparing to dedicated dps'ers his melee dmg output can be neglected, so there is not that much incentive to go for Vulnerable Attack.

 

From another, giving him extra deflection, while increasing his tankiness also gives more incentive for enemies to go after other team members.

 

How about Critical Focus?

As a guy who loves tanks and sturdy characters I have always fallen to this trap in this game no matter how long I play it.  I look at my sturdy front liner and try to make him more sturdy naturally.  Yet that is a bad thing since the AI in this game is set it up better in most games and wont mindlessly dog pile my tank.  I am a PotD/Tril of Iron vet (beat it twice) and still forget this lmfao!

 

I like the Critical focus idea.  It is only 5% BUT I will be running a Hearth Orlan rogue in this group and later on the devil.  Rogues can get up to 20% and Hearth Orlan 30% crit to hit.  another 5% on top of 30% is definitely good.  If I wasn't running a rogue I might think of something else.

 

As usual you guys are great with the responses.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Torm51

[Torm51]

I will also be running Aloth later in the game as a Battlemage with Concelhauts Staff and the Spirit Lance with Merciless Gaze.  Critical Focus just buffs ZF so according to the rules it will stack with Merciless.

[Boeroer]

By the way: do the rogue's Dirty Fighting/Minor Threat stack with Potion of Merciless Gaze? That way you could stack 30(Dirty F. + Minor Thr.) +5(Crit. Focus) +15(potion) = 50% hit to crit conversion. With a durganized Tall Grass this would mean +75% hit to crit conversion. Plus the sky high ACC when you attack the same target as the paladin... ouch!  

[Blunderboss]

Merciless gaze only gets replaced by dire blessing i think , same as almost any self buff ability by priest spells ,which makes me wonder why priest buffs are not only aoe but also stronger than individual stuff , also having priest makes most of consumables useless

 

Critical flaw in almighty balance :?

 

Edit : i have never even considered that Potion or Dire blessing might replace Dirty Fighting worth checking i guess would be a bummer

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Boeroer]

Of course - if you have a priest Dire Blessing would be better. And by the way Inspiring Radiance's +10 ACC stacks with everything, too. So a priest, the Forward Observer and a Hearth Orlan rogue could really wreak havok - no matter how high enemies' defenses are.  Oh - and don't forget the cipher with Tactical Meld which he will cast on the paladin in order to get +20 ACC on top of all the buffing. Hehehe...

 

Man - this Forward Observer and the Healbot would make a hell of a paladin dream team.

 

edit: forgot the word "rogue".

Edited April 27, 2016 by Boeroer

[Torm51]

Of course - if you have a priest Dire Blessing would be better. And by the way Inspiring Radiance's +10 ACC stacks with everything, too. So a priest, the Forward Observer and a Hearth Orlan could really wreak havok - no matter how high enemies' defenses are.  Oh - and don't forget the cipher with Tactical Meld which he will cast on the paladin in order to get +20 ACC on top of all the buffing. Hehehe...

 

Man - this Forward Observer and the Healbot would make a hell of a paladin dream team.

Funny I am running Durance so I will have Dire Blessing. Probably skip gaze then.  So I will most definitely be running this combo it was my actual plan to from the beginning.  I will also have Durances +10 ACC to holy radiance.  Yes this will be a punisher team.  My other frontliners will be, Eder fighter damage, Pallegina and my Orlan rogue.  4 melee party with a battle wizard with second line melee dps (staff and lance) and great CC and a buffer priest (Durance).  Athough Eder usually gets sidelined for Zahua.  Melee monk DPS is insane.   In dungeons I feel like 4 melee just get in the way so I will drop one front liner for a 3rd range damage dealer maybe Kana as a Rifleman. I love Sagani but her pet gets in the way even with a 3 line front liner team in close quarters.  Other alternative is to make Itumaak the 3rd front liner.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Torm51

[Torm51]

Of course - if you have a priest Dire Blessing would be better. And by the way Inspiring Radiance's +10 ACC stacks with everything, too. So a priest, the Forward Observer and a Hearth Orlan could really wreak havok - no matter how high enemies' defenses are.  Oh - and don't forget the cipher with Tactical Meld which he will cast on the paladin in order to get +20 ACC on top of all the buffing. Hehehe...

 

Man - this Forward Observer and the Healbot would make a hell of a paladin dream team.

Dude I read up on the healbot.  I just use Pallegina for the story line on top of her order talent ability for attack speed can be great for melee dps.  But ya the FO and the healbot would make a great pair of Paladins.

[KDubya]

Instead of Cautious Attack (which I think is a terrible talent - Superior Deflection gets you +5 deflection with no malus, Cautious Attack gets you another +3 deflection but at -20% attack speed and is a modal which has weird stacking rules), I'd look at the following:

 

A.) Gallant Focus - not as good as the Zealous Focus but would let you run Zealous Endurance at the same time

B.) Druid cross class Aspirants mark or whatever its called - deflection de-buff in a big area that lasts a long time

C.) One of the +10 defense talents like Bulls Will

D.) Weapon Focus - always good, a little limiting in what weapons you use but a solid choice.

E.) Deep Pockets - use more quick slots

F.) The health heal usable on allies - depending on you rest habits it can be useful

G.) Vulnerable Attack - DR penetration is always good

[Blunderboss]

Good thing about healbot ( Kind Wayfarer ) is if you have other healer , or another paladin you can focus less on its heals and just use Strange Mercy to its full potential = Take it at level 2 and then focus on heavy damage for the rest of the game ( Firebrand early with Scion of Flame works wonders ) , Strange Mercy can heal 100 Endurance on every ally in range from mid game,  late game its endurance heal number gets so high that it heals everybody to full all the time 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Boeroer]

Yeah - it's a great synergy: the Observer marks the foe and boosts the Healbot's ACC into the sky - and the Healbot then takes out some enemies with nice +30 ACC (or even more with the camping bonuses) while the rogue pokes here and there with his +80% hit-to-crit conversion for massive single target CC and ouchyness while getting healed by the 'Bot if things start to go south for him. Durance can sip a hot tea after his initial buffs.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Boeroer

[hilfazer]

Cautious Attack gets you another +3 deflection but at -20% attack speed and is a modal which has weird stacking rules)

Why weird? Isn't it simply in buffs category?

 

Vulnerable Attacks is not for this build which is defense/support oriented.

Cautious Attack is all right unless you're using deflection buffs because it does not stack with them.

Critical Focus fits but is weak.

+10 to defense talents are solid choices.

 

 

BTW, why do we have healbots but not damagebots/dpsbots?

[Blunderboss]

Kind Wayfarers 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Torm51]

 

Cautious Attack gets you another +3 deflection but at -20% attack speed and is a modal which has weird stacking rules)

Why weird? Isn't it simply in buffs category?

 

Vulnerable Attacks is not for this build which is defense/support oriented.

Cautious Attack is all right unless you're using deflection buffs because it does not stack with them.

Critical Focus fits but is weak.

+10 to defense talents are solid choices.

 

 

BTW, why do we have healbots but not damagebots/dpsbots?

 

I do not think you can turn a Paladin in this game into a serious DPSer.  Even if you give them high Per, Dex and Might and wear Light armor you do not have the abilities in your toolbox for sustained DPS.  But you can definitely turn a Paladin in a burst damage dealer if specced correctly those two Flames of Devotion will bring some serious pain even against massive bosses like dragons (except on big boss who is immune to fire )

 

If you go that route I think the Paladin is best suited as a front line durable tank/damage dealer because even without defensive stats they don't go down easy.  So a two hander and good burst abilities + your natural survival and the utility that all paladins bring no matter what makes them really good in either damage dealer/front liner or support/tank.

[Torm51]

maybe I am wrong if so please enlighten me! 

[Elric Galad]

Immolation is a very good DPS ability, but that's about it.

[Blunderboss]

You can reach 0 Recovery with double Bittercuts meanwhile using Sanguine or Ryonas armor , this and sacred immolation is as far as it gets for dps paladin which is really not that bad if you consider he will be able to tank pretty much everything excluding dragons , require no micro and can deliver serious burst with FoD 

Sadly Sacred Immolation comes very late into the game 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Boeroer]

There should really be a talent that adds FoD uses. Like Bonus Knockdown for Fighters. They can skip Critical Focus and integrate that into Zealous Focus from the start.

[MaxQuest]

I do not think you can turn a Paladin in this game into a serious DPSer.  Even if you give them high Per, Dex and Might and wear Light armor you do not have the abilities in your toolbox for sustained DPS.  But you can definitely turn a Paladin in a burst damage dealer if specced correctly those two Flames of Devotion will bring some serious pain even against massive bosses like dragons (except on big boss who is immune to fire )

 

maybe I am wrong if so please enlighten me!

You are not wrong )

In a prolonged fight even a priest has potential to out-double their total damage (if damaging scrolls are put aside).

The good thing about FoD paladins is their alpha-strike. In short skirmishes it's like you have an extra dedicated dps. While in boss fights he transitions into a tanky supporter.

[Blunderboss]

What i personally like about Dual-Wield Paladins and Fighters , that they are tanky enough to dish out somewhat sustained ( not extra high ) DPS trough entire fight meanwhile not giving a single fck that enemies are attacking them , meanwhile other squishier DPS classes cant really tank on their own when dual-wielding , I think this more than makes up for lack of big numbers 

Also i think Paladin with Sacred Immolation does more damage than most of other melees just that it comes so late in the game . Range of Sacred Immolation AoE is really decent and damage is decent too and it does not require any circumstances to use , you just do at start of the fight and enemies burn 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Blunderboss

[hilfazer]

 

 

Cautious Attack gets you another +3 deflection but at -20% attack speed and is a modal which has weird stacking rules)

Why weird? Isn't it simply in buffs category?

 

Vulnerable Attacks is not for this build which is defense/support oriented.

Cautious Attack is all right unless you're using deflection buffs because it does not stack with them.

Critical Focus fits but is weak.

+10 to defense talents are solid choices.

 

 

BTW, why do we have healbots but not damagebots/dpsbots?

 

I do not think you can turn a Paladin in this game into a serious DPSer.  Even if you give them high Per, Dex and Might and wear Light armor you do not have the abilities in your toolbox for sustained DPS.  But you can definitely turn a Paladin in a burst damage dealer if specced correctly those two Flames of Devotion will bring some serious pain even against massive bosses like dragons (except on big boss who is immune to fire )

 

If you go that route I think the Paladin is best suited as a front line durable tank/damage dealer because even without defensive stats they don't go down easy.  So a two hander and good burst abilities + your natural survival and the utility that all paladins bring no matter what makes them really good in either damage dealer/front liner or support/tank.

 

 

Thanks for your answer! Now i see i haven't made myself clear Sorry for that.

 

What i mean is: why people keep saying 'healbot' while nobody ever says 'damagebot'/'dpsbot' ? It cannot come from MMO because in MMOs healers are part of 'holy trinity' as much as damage dealers, thus are equal in dignity.

[Boeroer]

The build in this forum was named "Damaging Healbot". I was just too lazy to write down all the words. I mean he has to do damage because otherwise he wouldn't heal as well.

 

Heck - now that I read my posts again: I was even too lazy to write "Heal" and only wrote "''Bot" at some point.