A request for stronghold items in solo play

[Jojobobo]

So I thought I'd make the thread about allowing access to Stronghold items in solo play, and see if people thought whether this was a good or bad idea. As you can't recruit companions going full solo, I'd imagine you could have an option to hire people (that don't class as companions - kind of like how you can often hire people in the new Stronghold dilemma scenarios) to go get them for you. Whether this would incur some sort of penalty (more turns taken as random minions aren't as resourceful as a companion, or less cash loot demonstrating the hired blade pocketing some for themselves) would really be up to the devs, though obviously suggestions are welcome.

 

I will say this isn't about making solo play "easier", none of the new items really would make things dramatically easier or different to current solo play. However there certainly are a few which if in play allow for more role-playing and/or build options - the Belt of Chimes/Swaddling Sheet would allow for many more low RES builds to be viable on solo play other than kite builds (for those who wanted to play someone weak willed), the Crossed Patch could allow a solo Powder Burns Ranger to be much more viable, the Helwax Mold could allow for duplication of an attribute boosting weapon (i.e. Whispers of Yenwood) to allow for a significant and cool stacking affect, etc.

 

This isn't to say I'm not fine with the current situation, just that it feels a little like an arbitrary restriction rather than something which makes logical sense for it being in place. Thoughts one way or the other would be greatly appreciated, sorry if a specific thread was already produced for this and had been shelved - I guess if there was I need to brush up on my search-fu.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Jojobobo

[manageri]

I don't see why this is needed. If you're not happy with the added challenge of no hold-quest items in pure solo, then just "cheat" and recruit companions only for that purpose. You're just asking for that cheat to be made official, and I don't see what the difference ultimately would be.

[Jojobobo]

The difference is many people aren't happy to cheat, including me. I'm perfectly fine with the status quo, but as I said I don't really feel that making these items available does reduce challenge - just that it frees up more options for builds and role-playing. There's plenty of builds going solo for all classes that are perfectly viable, making these items available just adds more equally viable builds to solo play that you can't have currently. More options to me means more fun, more variation per class and hence more solo-replayability.

 

Beyond that, as I said the distinction between sending some companions and hiring some dude for a one off adventure does feel arbitrary. For people requiring escorts, you can either send companions or pay them off - the paying off presumably equating to them hiring security for the trip (hence why Twin Elms supplicants cost more). Further for dilemmas you often throwing money at them which equates to people being hired as physical security (Azzuro, etc.). There's no sensical reason why this couldn't also apply to adventures.

 

As I said, I'm perfectly happy with the challenge of solo PotD, my current build is getting along fine and on this particular build there aren't even any adventure based items that would improve it (a perfect point of why I don't think these items make solo PotD any easier). However for future playthroughs, seeing as a load of these neat and unique items were solely consigned to party play, it might be fun to have them somehow in solo - beyond more or less cheating as you say. I honestly prefer playing solo (it's normally what I play in games even when companions are on offer, e.g. I always solo Arcanum and FO:NV) and as I said there isn't really a tangible reason why you can't hire a guy (and them not count as a companion) to go do this for you.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Teioh_White]

Hire a random at bar when quest comes up, send them on it, murder them when they get back, and have Party menu remain empty?

 

In general though, the game doesn't seemed designed with solo on mind, so doubt they go outta the way to accommodate the quirks of solo play.

[Jojobobo]

I do get that it wasn't designed with solo in mind, but it seems like it would be an extremely easy change to make. Making a minor tweak to unlock a whole load more solo options seems like a good idea in terms of effort spent to do it in relation to the satisfaction of the fanbase who like playing solo. Not that I'm not satisfied, but more options are always a little better.

[Batbro]

I contest the assertion that the game wasn't designed with solo play in mind on the basis that there are ACHIEVEMENTS for it.  Solo play was something the developers considered, that they knew a portion of their fanbase would be interested in, and that they knew was achievable within the systems they designed.

 

I personally have not yet done a solo playthrough, though I'm considering it for my next one, but I support the OP's position.  Increasing the number of viable builds is an admirable design goal, but it should indeed have some sort of in-game cost.  Money and/or time are obvious options, but we shouldn't forget that this would also mean the player is forgoing the EXPERIENCE bounty these adventures offer.

[anameforobsidian]

The whole purpose of the stronghold adventures was to give companions something to do.  Just consider it another part of the self-elected difficulty of choosing solo.  The only item that changes your options in the game at all is the diving helmet, and you can get that outside of the stronghold.

[Jojobobo]

The whole purpose of the stronghold adventures was to give companions something to do.  Just consider it another part of the self-elected difficulty of choosing solo.

"Giving companions something to do" to me feels a little hollow, as I thought the main point of companions was for them to be interesting and offer something in a narrative sense. To get a load of companions you don't need and then just say I want you to go off on this random adventure because I say so seems to diminish the companion characters' role in the story. I would rather, even playing with a party, only take on companions I want for story reasons - rather than have a slew of them as pointless odd-job men because I want the sweet loot. How does any of that really reinforce roleplaying, rather than it being an arbitrary an exploitative choice of companions you're supposed to care about?

 

In terms of self-elected difficulty, I'm cool with solo PotD being a higher difficulty level. However, is there really a single tangible item that lowers difficulty with what I'm proposing? I really don't think there is, as I said it's just a case of denying options. On my current playthrough, I guess maybe the Helwax Mold would allow me to duplicate a per rest spellbound item and get another use of it - but that's really not so much a difficultly thing as it is "how often can I be bothered to get rest supplies" thing. A lot of the stronghold items just allow for more offense (concentration items), however you can easily play those builds solo already within certain classes so long as they kite (Ranger) - so it really isn't to me a case of difficulty.

 

I suppose some people may think that have a companion in the adventure resolve statement is important, but really who cares if "Sagani" was replaced with "Roger - the cheap guy I hired" instead? I'd wager no one, all people care about is the loot in the first instance.

 

It'd be useful if people said they play solo or not from the off, rather than people who don't play solo saying what restrictions they believe should be placed on solo without experience. I'm not trying to get anyone's back up, but it seems like there's a lot of "it makes the solo game easier" without substantiation of why it makes the solo game easier - which I'd certainly appreciate if anyone has that experience of both play-styles.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Jojobobo

[falchen]

It's pretty much just a question of whether this is worth the dev time it would take to change it, there's no other reason not to make these avaliable without companions somehow.

[Blunderboss]

Most simple solution would be :

Make Guest / Story Hirelings able to solve Adventures , if lvl 3 aloth can solve any adventure doemenel thief or glanfathan soul hunter should be able too :D

Another simple solution would be : Make it so after you create a hireling in the inn it is not added to your party automatically but you have to add him trough party menu manually so people could make inn hirelings in solo playtroughs just to solve the adventures 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Batbro]

Simplest implementation would probably borrow code from the stronghold visitors with the "Send Escort" and "Pay Off" buttons.  Give adventures two buttons, "Assign" which lets you select a companion to do it (and receive the full rewards and XP bounty) or "Hire Mercenary (1000gp)" (which just nets you the item rewards).

Edited April 18, 2016 by Batbro

[sp3cw4r]

Probably should be added if it's not a big deal to implement.   

[Jarmo]

Don't see why not.

Some of the stronghold quests already have an option or sending a companion or hiring help (for 2000cp or something like that).

So why not have all the missions doable like that, you wouldn't get XP or make profit even by selling the items, but it'd be an option.

[Jojobobo]

Good to see poll ended more on the positive side of things, hopefully it's something the devs will consider before they stop patching.

[KDubya]

You can still do everything solo while having a companion or two at the keep to perform missions and escorts. This lets you get all the items. It just denies you getting the "solo" achievement which requires you to be alone all the time.

 

If you have to get the achievement just suck it up and do it alone. If you don't care about the achievement there is no problem.

 

The devs should not waste time on this, some one can mod it in or maybe the IE mod lets you console in items without cancelling achievements and you can just cheat.

[Jojobobo]

I realise you can hire companions to do this, however to me this is still cheating on going legitimately solo. I also get that this is arbitrary distinction made by me, but I feel it's a distinction many other people would make too - given that the game doesn't class this as soloing, and many people who prefer hardcore difficulty will (A) want their playthrough to be as hard as possible in a legitimate sense and (B) not want to cheat. I'm perfectly fine soloing as is (and I do, happily), but as I said the devs keeping these items restricted to what the game defines as party play (even if you are just hiring an odd job man at a tavern and not making use of him elsewhere) is also very arbitrary. I think that is my real issue with it, as I don't think the difficulty argument as I've mentioned really applies here - because a lot of these items are big on flavour and/or have niche uses in the first place.

 

I do agree however, it's not something the devs should waste time on. This is me assuming this would be an easy change to make, obviously if there's some sort of weird coding they would need to dig deep into to rectify this then they shouldn't waste their time.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Jojobobo