faith & convictions... now, still, always

[Gromnir]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85155-faith-and-conviction-nerf/?p=1790165

 

...

 

am having a jules winnfield moment here fellas.  so tell us you fixed it...one more g0d damned time.

 

kidding.

 

sorta.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps warning: sweary link

 

[Aarik D]

Hey Gromnir,

 

What seems to be the problem? It appears to be working fine in the new 3.02.1008 beta build which was released about 2 hours ago. 

 

Try that new update and see if that resolves the issue.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. Its been fixed

[Gromnir]

see, our concern is that it is "fixed."

 

"ps just to clarify.  current base deflection/defenses for faith and convictions is +4/+8.  one would expect that maxed dispositions would provide an additional +6/+12 as obsidian stated that no changes to disposition based faith and conviction bonuses were intended with 3.01.  +1/+2 for each tier o' disposition advancement, yes?  that is how it has worked since... always? while dispositions allow for a tier 4, faith and convictions stops giving bonuses at 3.  with two paladin relevant dispositions, that means we got 6 individual opportunities to receive faith and conviction related bonuses-- +6/+12.  so, max possible is +10/+20, yes?"

 

+8/+17 for faith and convictions when dispositions are maxed?  explain.  with base +4 deflection and +8 all other defenses, please explain +8/+17 for a level 13 paladin with 4 in both relevant dispositions.

 

 

perhaps you mean that it is "fixed" insofar as that is how it is and that is how it is gonna stay? definite. firm.  broken forever more?  am being a smidge snarky, but it doesn't appear that the problem has been corrected, even if faiths and convictions is fixed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Aarik D]

Hey Gromnir,

 

Perhaps a save file is needed here. I am seeing +10/+20 on my end. Or maybe you have some Disfavored Disposition points.

 

Thanks

[Gromnir]

 

even if we had disfavored, how would that result in +8/+17?  

 

that being said, no stoic and no cruel for our darcozzi paladini.

 

will try and get a save later.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Aarik D]

No, having disfavored will actually lower your bonuses from Faith and Conviction. However, what it sounds like is that you do not have Deep Faith with gives you the +2/+3 to your defenses. 

 

Edit: Was going over your posts again, I'll look at the numbers again, but a save will be helpful as well.

[Gromnir]

ok, two separate issues.

 

1)  how does the math result in +8/+17 even with a penalty from disfavored?  a penalty which we do not have btw.

 

2) huh?

 

why would we add the deep faith talent to show our faith and conviction bonuses?  deep faith is an additional bonus, yes?  

 

 

"ps just to clarify.  current base deflection/defenses for faith and convictions is +4/+8.  one would expect that maxed dispositions would provide an additional +6/+12 as obsidian stated that no changes to disposition based faith and conviction bonuses were intended with 3.01.  +1/+2 for each tier o' disposition advancement, yes?  that is how it has worked since... always? while dispositions allow for a tier 4, faith and convictions stops giving bonuses at 3.  with two paladin relevant dispositions, that means we got 6 individual opportunities to receive faith and conviction related bonuses-- +6/+12.  so, max possible is +10/+20, yes?"

 

should be +10/+20 BEFORE deep faith.  explain +8/+17 in the absence of deep faith.  with a starting point of +4/+8, how does Gromnir or you end with +8/+17 with maxed dispositions?  is possible Gromnir is missing something, so please explain +8/+17.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Aarik D]

Hey Gromnir,

 

Sorry for the confusion. Its been a long day. It turns out that the 4th disposition point is not being added to the scaling. I wrote up a bug for the issue and added it to the database.

 

Thanks and keep on rockin!

[Gromnir]

Hey Gromnir,

 

Sorry for the confusion. Its been a long day. It turns out that the 4th disposition point is not being added to the scaling. I wrote up a bug for the issue and added it to the database.

 

Thanks and keep on rockin!

do we now receive points for the fourth disposition?  am asking 'cause in the past we only received bonuses for tiers 1-3.

 

but again, am curious how, starting at base +4/+8, Gromnir and everybody else ends at +8/+17.  

 

what does each level o' positive disposition confer as of 3.02?  if am currently getting benefits from 6 instances of bonus dispositions, then how do we go from +4/+8 to +8/+17?

 

am admitting that Gromnir may be missing something very obvious.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 18, 2016 by Gromnir

[limaxophobiacq]

Hey Gromnir,

 

Sorry for the confusion. Its been a long day. It turns out that the 4th disposition point is not being added to the scaling. I wrote up a bug for the issue and added it to the database.

 

Thanks and keep on rockin!

 

Sorry but this still just adds to the confusion.

 

How Faith and Conviction used to work before it was bugged was that it gave you +1 deflection and +2 to other defenses for every point of disposition in your 2 favored dispositions up to the point you had 3 levels of disposition in both of them. Starting at +5/+10 this ended you at +11/+22, and then if you took Deep Faith it would increase by +2/+5 (now nerfed to +2/+3) on top of that for a total of +13/+27 with maxed Faith and Conviction + Deep Faith.

 

With Faith and Conviction now reduced to a base of +4/+8, and no other intended change (for main characters) having ever been mentioned, one would expect to still get +1/+2 for every point of disposition, up to level 3 in both dispositions, for a total of +10 deflection and +20 to other defenses, on top of which Deep Faith would ad another +2/+3 for a total max possible bonus for maxed Faith and Conviction + Deep Faith of +12/+23.

 

4th disposition point has never done anything as far as I know so wouldn't think it's a bug.

 

Ending up with +8/+17 should simply not be possible, since +4|+8 +1*n|+2*n could never possibly result in +8/+17.

Edited March 18, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[Gromnir]

am thinking aarik had a long day.  after awhile all the numbers likely start doing a kinda fantasia dance in the noggin.  is difficult to see things clear.

 

the thing is, am thinking that we is finally on the right track.  am seeing movement in the right direction.  all we need is to have obsidian explain how faith & convictions is 'posed to work and how it will work when it is fixed.  faith and convictions bonuses from dispositions is currently inexplicable to Gromnir.  am not seeing how to go from base +4/+8 to +8/+17 utilizing the incremental disposition bonuses that existed pre 3.01.  am genuine baffled by the math that has +4/+8 become +8/+17.  even so, it appears that the folks at obsidian realize that a problem exists.  is a good first step.  before the fix is implemented, we must needs make sure that the fix actual addresses the problem, but at least now we is hopeful.

 

our inner jules were getting agitated.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tennisgolfboll]

I brought this up earlier aswell.

[Aarik D]

Hey guys,

 

Turns out there was a slight nerf to Faith and Conviction, you now get +0.8/+1.6 (rounded down) instead of the +1/+2

 

Sorry for the confusion. 

[hilfazer]

Hey guys,

 

Turns out there was a slight nerf to Faith and Conviction, you now get +0.8/+1.6 (rounded down) instead of the +1/+2

 

Sorry for the confusion. 

 

Thanks for info, but this nerf is wrong.

 

Numbers for defenses are truncated which is a hint that non integral numbers should not be put here. This way penalties for disfavoured dispositions are higher than bonuses from favoured ones. I'm almost positive it's not intended. Am i wrong?

 

You've already nerfed pally's deflection, F&C and DF, was nerfing disposition bonuses really necessary? Especially since it's an exceptional case (pally being a PC).