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Armajiro

Stronghold attacks - No amount of defense is ever enough?

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I'm just venting my frustration here, but what's the point of recruiting defenders for the keep if they can NEVER EVER defend it. Every single time I auto-resolve an attack with just defenders, and I have some damned good ones, I always lose at least one upgrade along with getting some debt. 

 

Also, not that I need the money, but even with all the upgrades and defenders, bandits always take 2/3 of whatever taxes you raise. If you wanted to have a stronghold that is meant to actually get better.. well.. you blew it. The reason I'm miffed is, that I was meh about this on the first playthrough, but with both expansions out and there being supposed upgrades to the stronghold management, it still just plain sucks.

 

Great game otherwise, I just don't understand how you messed this up so badly, even after apparently tinkering with it.

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It does really suck that you can have a souped-up Caed Nua with lots of ridiculously strong defenders (and companions that aren't currently in your party!), but everyone apparently goes out to lunch when it's under attack unless you run back to defend it.

 

But for Magran's sake, if you want to simulate repair costs, don't demolish entire upgrades. That stuff is expensive!

 

(As for bandits, I don't really have much of a problem with them draining my income. Then again, I made Security a big priority in my game....)

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I stream every Friday at 9pm EST: http://www.twitch.tv/ladaarehn  Currently streaming: KOTOR 2.

 

Pillars of Eternity homebrew tabletop thread: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84662-pillars-of-eternity-homebrew-wip/

 

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I just gave myself gold in game, to test the stronghold. Less stress that way. ALthough I always liked to manual resolve, more tactical action to test stuff out on.

 

I think when Raedric 2.0 came out, I put it on manual and the Kor and some other defenders with high security, easily handled that, with around 30-35 total security. Not sure how they calculate it. The steward really should have had more detailed instructions, even if it kind of broke the 4th wall. If Obsidian refuses to break the 4th wall, then come up with RP elements that can be RPed with an RP explanation from the game system mechanic.

Edited by Ymarsakar

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*shrug* I'm at 42 security and they never successfully defend it without some losses. It's a minor niggle, but annoying to keep rebuilding my sodding walls (if I don't want to drop everything and rush in to smack the attackers)!

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Yeah... the stronghold is a lot more fun since WM2, but frankly, the attacks are still more of a nuisance than anything else. When you're in the middle of something completely different, it's annoying to have to rush back to the stronghold just to fight some trash mob. 

 

IMHO Stronghold attacks/battles should all be worked into quests/storyline somehow. Like the battle of Yenwood. That's an example of a Stronghold battle done right. 

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Yeah... the stronghold is a lot more fun since WM2, but frankly, the attacks are still more of a nuisance than anything else. When you're in the middle of something completely different, it's annoying to have to rush back to the stronghold just to fight some trash mob. 

 

IMHO Stronghold attacks/battles should all be worked into quests/storyline somehow. Like the battle of Yenwood. That's an example of a Stronghold battle done right. 

 

It would make more sense if the stronghold battles were like mini boss fights, for when you entered a new path under Caed Nua. That way when you go up to the top to rest, somebody gives you a little greeting. May be even more hilarious than that first bear cave after Cilant.

 

That way, when you're doing the Endless Paths, it's just one more fight outside.

 

They also probably should have put all the internal regions into the same map area, and used teleportation to get around. Every one of those text adventure boxes, teleports you across the same map. They could have done the same thing with the keep and the brighthall. Would have made navigating it more fun and less tedious. I preferred a circular design, with the throne room and forum in the middle. All the merchants should have been outside as well, with their own little stalls and what not, renting space.

 

It's just a place that was designed without consideration of how players actually play the game. Or how long load times are in POE. The engine difficulty of making areas that changed over time, was probably difficult. But it had far less effect on gameplay than the other things they could have done with that stronghold area. And this without even going into the problem of "no content" in 1.0

Edited by Ymarsakar

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I had an earlier thread about this. I appreciate wanting to have some type of combat encounter associated with the stronghold that needs your attention, but if you are going to punish players for leaving it up to the hired help then have the encounter trigger while at the stronghold. Whenever you arrive or are exploring the endless paths have a chance that an attack is triggered. The way it works right now you could be in the middle of some epic quest, and it is jarring to have to stop that to go back and kill some rodents back at the keep because no amount of guards or walls is enough.

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Yeah, I recently finished building everything in the stronghold..  prestige and security standing at 42 each. Up until that point I had never had an attack on the stronghold.. (but I had an overabundance of supplicants.. seriously, I created four hirelings just to deal with the escort missions.) After I completed the stronghold.. nothing but attacks.  The last two days of playing (real time about 6 hours playthrough each day.) I've had five attacks. It's downright idiotic. Next time I'm totally ignoring the stronghold.. it's really not at all fun to deal with.

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I never had a single attack on my stronghold and I built mine fairly quickly. I only spent money on the stronghold and nothing else until it was fully upgraded.

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I never had a single attack on my stronghold and I built mine fairly quickly. I only spent money on the stronghold and nothing else until it was fully upgraded.

Today after an attack I decided to concentrate all hirelings with only security thus lowering prestige. I also hired an ogre that lowers prestige by 6..  Now with a security of 49 and a prestige of 31 I don't seem to be getting any more attacks. I'll have to see how it works out in a couple days. I guess that would make sense.. the more prestige you have the more attacks you'd get. No idea if it really works that way or not.

 

Also, weirdly haven't got any more stronghold quests, supplicants or any other dealings since I completed the stronghold. I find that kind of odd as well.

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The security is affecting only 2 things:

- how much money you lose to bandits each month

- what chances to escape have the people from your dungeons

 

The prestige is affecting bad/good events:

- possibly how often the keep is attacked (the attacks seem to stop anyway after a while)

- how often you have good/bad visitors

- possibly how often you get stronghold quests

 

Hirelings help increasing security/prestige and also help you while you defend your keep manually. They will never kill attackers by themselves and the keep security doesn't affect the outcome. If you don't solve attacks manually you lose money - that's how it works...

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Great feedback y'all! :)

 

Overall, this un-fun aspect of the Stronghold needs to be less punishing for no other reason than giving us more room for adventuring and other fun parts about the new and improved stronghold.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I've just started getting into PoE and just started upgrading the stronghold when I got hit by bandits. I tried actively defending and one of my characters STARTS unconscious every time which seems a bit unfair especially given that the bandits outnumber me and are higher level which means that my party dies - end of game. If I autodefend, then 2 of the three upgrades that I have already done are destroyed. There really doesn't seem a lot of point in continuing at that point - not enough cash to rebuild, not able to defend the place regardless. Seems to me that you just cannot get ahead because I lost nearly all of the cash that I had already spent on it PLUS the cost of the generic repairs - so it costs me all my gold to gain nothing. The next raid will wipe out the last upgrade and again there is nothing I can do to stop it so there really seems to be no point.

 

To me that pretty much sends me looking for something else to play. Not up to what I think of as Obsidian's usual quality unfortunately.

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i have never encountered that bug with the fighting mob in stronghold. To get less attacks concentrate on defense upgrades

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Didn't realize how annoying the stronghold was until I started replaying the game.  My God, it feels like I basically have to babysit the place in order to make sure I don't lose every structure I've built to attacks.  Literally have to keep rebuilding structures because they get obliterated in attacks.

Worst part is it takes so damn long to build structures that I can't even move on to the next one because an attack will set me back at square one.

I'm at the point where I might just ignore the stronghold entirely.


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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Eh?

His is either exaggerated or you do something very wrong. With the right apporach you won't have many problems with stronghold raids at all. 

Every attack gets telegraphed long before so that you have the time to travel back and do the encounter yourself. Nearly all of them are extremely easy. If you kill all enemies you won't have any damage to your stronghold and get experience. If you always let your stronghold sort the attacks out on its own there will be damage. I guess you never travelled to your stronghold to aid in those fights?

To keep the amount of raids in check: raise your security number. Once you get hirelings for your stronghold (via barracks) and some security upgrades (focus on those ones first) you won't experience many attacks anymore. Up to the point where they don't happen at all.

Also you don't want to raise your prestige too soon. I can't remember if that attracks raiders - but the higher the prestige the more advanced the stronghold adventures become. If you level your prestige too fast you will skip a lot of the low level stronghold adventures which could bring you nice unique items. Best thing is to hire folks who have high positive security gain but a negative impact on your prestige (best example Korgrak the Ogre from Dyrford Crossing).  

TL;dr: do the fights yourself, favor the structures with the highest security gain, build barracks and enlist mercenaries with the highest security gain asap.


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Funny enough, I tried to hire the ogre.  I even got the dialogue option to do it and chose it.  He's like, "nah" and just walks away.

Not sure if that's a bug or not.


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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