Build idea: the damaging healbot

[Madscientist]

I had an idea about a paladin, who heals the party by doing lots of damage.

 

stats: high mig, per, int, all others at 10

race: moon godlike

class: Paladin (kind wayfarers)

talents: flames of devotion, strange mercy, sword and shepard, everything that boosts damage of 2h weapon

equipment: 2h sword, heavy armor, shoed in faith

 

What does he do:

- use falmes of devotion = heal

- killing enemy = heal

- getting a crit = heal (shoed in faith)

- losing endurance = heal (moon godlike)

 

I want to have a good old DnD paladin like keldorn from BG2.

So he gets heavy armor and a 2h sword.

As weapon, St. waidwens redeemer would be a perfect replacement for the holy avenger (if it does not hit the paladin anymore). Tidefall or the blade of the endless path would also be nice. I am not sure if estoc or greatsword are better.

keldorn (and the holy avenger) had a great dispel ability, so he gets deprive the unworthy.

keldorn was also immun to charm, would be nice if I get this done.

 

Do you think that this might be a good build?

Sorry, I do not know the game so well that I know every equipment or talent that may be useful.

He is part of a full party, because he wants to heal somebody while doing damage.

[Boeroer]

Yeah it's fun I guess. We discussed that build idea in another threat some time ago. When you get Sacred Immolation and Healing Chain the on-kill-healing will not stop.

 

It may be also worthwhile to use two gunshots + FoD since that really hurts (and can kill even enemies who are at full endurance). Inspiring Triumph may also be an option because you want to trigger on-kill effects anyway. There are also a few items that do things on kill now.

 

You can also wear Sanguine Plate - you want to get a crit anyway because of Shod-in-Faith. Also look out for the Swaddling Sheet: It's a cape that unleashes an foe-only Overwhelming Wave when you get a crit - stunning all foes around you and doing great crush damage. Can also lead to lots of kills.

 

If you want to kill even better then think about using scrolls. Paladins with high MIG and INT are great for that. Fireball Scrolls are cheap and do good damage. Especially if you take Scion of Flame (which you should anyways because of FoD and Sacred Immolation). More kiulls = more healing.

 

Also nice: Aegis of Loyality + Sacred Immolation means you will uncharm every party member within seconds. And now there are also items which will prevent you from being charmed/dominated. Together with your paladin's ability that boosts defenses against that I thin you will come close to immunity. 

 

I'd say it will be a great build.

 

edit: also think about using Forgemaster's Gloves => Firebrand. Good for FoD strikes if you take Zealous Focus (meaning +26 ACC with FoD).

Edited March 8, 2016 by Boeroer

[Crucis]

I had an idea about a paladin, who heals the party by doing lots of damage.

 

stats: high mig, per, int, all others at 10

race: moon godlike

class: Paladin (kind wayfarers)

talents: flames of devotion, strange mercy, sword and shepard, everything that boosts damage of 2h weapon

equipment: 2h sword, heavy armor, shoed in faith

 

What does he do:

- use falmes of devotion = heal

- killing enemy = heal

- getting a crit = heal (shoed in faith)

- losing endurance = heal (moon godlike)

 

I want to have a good old DnD paladin like keldorn from BG2.

So he gets heavy armor and a 2h sword.

As weapon, St. waidwens redeemer would be a perfect replacement for the holy avenger (if it does not hit the paladin anymore). Tidefall or the blade of the endless path would also be nice. I am not sure if estoc or greatsword are better.

keldorn (and the holy avenger) had a great dispel ability, so he gets deprive the unworthy.

keldorn was also immune to charm, would be nice if I get this done.

 

Do you think that this might be a good build?

Sorry, I do not know the game so well that I know every equipment or talent that may be useful.

He is part of a full party, because he wants to heal somebody while doing damage.

 

Some thoughts in response...

 

1. The Redeemer is a great weapon, though it is bugged.  On occasion, its Divine Mark special effect will proc on its wielder, doing unintended damage to you.  For this reason, I tend to unequip the Redeemer when I'm in areas not infested with the undead.  And because Eder uses Tidefall, I have Pallegina use the Hours of St Rumbalt greatsword (upgraded) as her backup greatsword when not using the Redeemer.  The St Rumbalt greatsword is a hidden gem, because Tidefall is sooooo good that people easily forget about St Rumbalt's GS.  And quite frankly, if there are no undead around to slay, an upgraded version of St Rumbalt's is superior to the Redeemer, IMO.  (I have Pallegina's St Rumbalt's upgraded to Superb.  And it kicks butt!)  

 

2. Also, I prefer Greatswords to Estocs for Pallegina (and in general).  IMO, even the best of the estocs, the Blade of the Endless Paths, is inferior to the Tidefall or an upgraded version of St Rumbalt's, largely due to the better special effects on those two GS's.  This isn't to say that Estocs are bad.  No, if you have enough tanks in your party, it's worth having one of them specializing in Adventurer weapons so that he can use either the BotEP or the Drake's Bell anti-beast (i.e. anti-dragon) estocs.  Drake's Bell is a great estoc ... when you're fighting beasts.  Otherwise, it's essentially just an estoc with no special effects at all, which makes it too situational for general use.

 

 

3.  As for your Keldorn like paladin, don't forget to take Aegis of Loyalty!!!  That is a GREAT ability for dealing with enemies that like to charm/dominate your party.  As for having the paladin himself being immune to charm, I don't recall if there's an item that give you this immunity or not.  There's a talent, Mental Fortress, that increases your defense against charm, domination, confusion, Frightened, and  Terrified effects.

 

 

 

[Madscientist]

I take the greatsword, because with weapon focus soldier I get also accurancy for the arkebuse. This will be max damage for the initiat FoD stike (though at the start of the fight you don´t need healing )

 

At the moment I play with a barbarien and Pallegina is equipped with st rumbalt. She is great and I wish my char could have the wrath of the five suns.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Madscientist

[Boeroer]

To be honest the Blade otEP is totally awesome on a paladin who wants to evolve around on-kill-effects. It has speed - combined with durgan refnement & a durgan reinforced Saguine Plate you will have an attack speed multiplier of ~1.5 in full plate. That's like sipping a potion of Alacrity all the time. You can totally skip Vuln. Attack because of the -5 DR it already has. And while doing all that it also marks the target for +10 ACC for another party member (maybe a cipher for CC, making it even more easy for you to kill the foe).

 

But all in all I think it's just a matter of taste. 

 

The Redeemer's bug will be fixed soon. It's not even specific to the Redeemer: at the moment all spell chance weapons also cast their spells at the wielder. Just ask the wearers of Elry's Jacket.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

I take the greatsword, because with weapon focus soldier I get also accurancy for the arkebuse.

Ok, that's a really good argument.

[Crucis]

I take the greatsword, because with weapon focus soldier I get also accurancy for the arkebuse. This will be max damage for the initiat FoD stike (though at the start of the fight you don´t need healing )

 

At the moment I play with a barbarien and Pallegina is equipped with st rumbalt. She is great and I wish my char could have the wrath of the five suns.

 

 

I agree on the weapon focus point, though I tend to prefer arbalests to arquebusses, because arbalests don't have the embedded accuracy penalty.  They might not do quite as much damage as arquebusses, but it's close enough for my taste.  And I'll give up that slight difference in damage to get more accuracy and more hits.

[Boeroer]

They are not bad, I agree. And you will cause prone on crit. That's also nice.

[Ymarsakar]

I refused to use arbalests and other weapons that "may prone on crit", until people said that they always proned on crit, and then I was like "what".

 

But I always thought the accuracy penalty on those arquebuses could be compensated for, but there were too many close calls in my first game, due to that.

 

So arbalest and crossbows are my favorite ranged alpha weapon as well. Especially for casters, since their accuracy is horribad to begin with, and the reload animation allows me to cast their spells, without them attacking and then having to recover again.

 

I remember that thread Boer was talking about, because I recall that was when Paladins first got flames of devotion as an upgraded alpha strike. I think a lot of paladin abilities were per rest or something equally bad like that before that patch came in. Somewhere around White March 1 or just before.

 

Since paladins used might for healing, that meant a maxed might build would also benefit damage. By decreasing dexterity, which affects less negatively for people wearing full plate -50% like a chanter, the paladin's other stats could also be buffed up a bit.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Ymarsakar

[Madscientist]

Ok, he will get the arbalest. Prone on crit is nice, especially with the +20acc bonus of FoD and maybe sworn enemy.

 

About getting hit:

Neither this char nor my monk want to get hit. Effects that trigger when you get a crit are nice, but I do not complain if I do not get hit because my defense is so high or because all enemies are CCed. A monk does some damage with his fist auto attacks and this char will be happy if Maneha stands behind him with tall grass.

 

In case I defeat several enemies in short time, inspiring triumph does not stack, does it?

[Boeroer]

I refused to use arbalests and other weapons that "may prone on crit", until people said that they always proned on crit, and then I was like "what".

 

Yeah - they "may" because there's a roll against fortitude that may fail. It's like any other attack that causes prone - like Knockdown or all the other weapons with prone on crit: You first roll the damaging hit against deflection - and if that crits there wil be a second roll against fortitude to determine if the target also gets prone.

 

So the prone effect "may" fail despite the initial attack being a crit.

 

 

 

In case I defeat several enemies in short time, inspiring triumph does not stack, does it?

I don't think so - but I'm not 100% sure. Please report what you find out.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Boeroer

[Madscientist]

About prone on crit:

My main char is a barbarian with tall grass at the moment.

Sometimes the combat log shows: "You crit enemy for x damage, and an additional effect" but it does not show what effect.

Sometimes it shows:" You crit enemy for x damage, enemy is prone for x seconds"

 

It could be mob justice, because all other effects are shown, such as prone, stunn or sickened (threatening presence).

 

 

It will take a long time until I play with this char. First I finish with my barbarien (I am at the start of WM1 and I have done a few things in act2) and then there are so many other good games. But when I play PoE again, this would be one of the chars I like more than many others. Should I do damage, healing or tanking? I can´t decide so I do all at once

[Ymarsakar]

 

I refused to use arbalests and other weapons that "may prone on crit", until people said that they always proned on crit, and then I was like "what".

 

Yeah - they "may" because there's a roll against fortitude that may fail. It's like any other attack that causes prone - like Knockdown or all the other weapons with prone on crit: You first roll the damaging hit against deflection - and if that crits there wil be a second roll against fortitude to determine if the target also gets prone.

 

So the prone effect "may" fail despite the initial attack being a crit.

 

Originally, I had thought it used a random process like the zealous endurance hit to graze effect. Actually that wasn't in the game at the time, so the orlan's hit to crit conversion effect. So I interpreted it as a chance to proc, after passing a hit roll. If I had tested it earlier, I might have realized that the proc chance was 100% on crit, but that there's another roll for it. But that would still be better than say a 50% proc chance on crit. Since player's accuracy can be buffed, and enemy defenses debuffed. 

[MaxQuest]

I had an idea about a paladin, who heals the party by doing lots of damage.

[...]

equipment: 2h sword, heavy armor, shoed in faith

There is also an option to go for Vent Pick. 15% of FoD on hit/crit and thus "sword and shepard" proc.

 

Now also chant that +100% healing phrase, and suddenly your party doesn't have endurance limit, only health pool

Edited March 10, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

 

I had an idea about a paladin, who heals the party by doing lots of damage.

[...]

equipment: 2h sword, heavy armor, shoed in faith

There is also an option to go for Vent Pick. 15% of FoD on hit/crit and thus "sword and shepard" proc.

 

Now also chant that +100% healing phrase, and suddenly your party doesn't have endurance limit, only health pool

 

That's a really nice idea. Maybe this doesn't work though - like Greater Frenzy doesn't work with the Frenzy from Sanguine Plate. Maybe only the FoD from the Paladin himself (and not the one from the Pick) gets coupled to Sword & Shepherd. But it's definitely worth testing  

[MaxQuest]

Maybe only the FoD from the Paladin himself (and not the one from the Pick) gets coupled to Sword & Shepherd.

Haven't tested with a Wayfarer Paladin. But when it procs on Pallegina, allies get +20% speed buff from Vielo Vidorio

[Boeroer]

 

Maybe only the FoD from the Paladin himself (and not the one from the Pick) gets coupled to Sword & Shepherd.

Haven't tested with a Wayfarer Paladin. But when it procs on Pallegina, allies get +20% speed buff from Vielo Vidorio

 

Oh - very nice! Would be really weird if it didn't work with Sword & Sheperd then. Damn - now I regret I haven't a paladin in my current playthrough.  

[Madscientist]

Sorry, but what is "vent pick"?

 

This is from another thread:

"Back in 2.03 I thought Strange Mercies was good at level 2 and was still better than nothing at high levels. That was when it did not scale with level. Now at level 14 my Kind Wayfarer heals like 170 endurance with LoH and like 105 endurance in an AoE with Strange Mercies. It is really strong now."

 

So it looks like this is really useful.

 

One more question:

- things that boost "healing done" increases all healing you do on others and on yourself. It only works with your talents and abilities. (This would be very good for this char)

- things that boost "healing received" increase the endurance gain from all sources for this char (his own abilities, abilities from others on him, drinking potions). This would be good for a tank.

Do I understand this correctly?

[Boeroer]

Healing done - the healing you do with spells, abilities and so on. I only know of MIG which does this at the moment - is there any item that has this?

 

Healing received- the healing you receive. If a priest casts a healing spell for +100 endurance on your head - and you have an item that gives +25% "healing received" - you will get more healing: 125 instead of 100.

 

Those two things can stack:

Let's say you are a paladin with +25% "healing done" (from MIG) and wear a belt that has +25% "healing received".

Now you cast Lay on Hands on yourself for +100 endurance (base). You will heal 156 endurance. Because: 100*1.25 (MIG) * 1.25 (Belt).

 

Vent Pick is a unique Stiletto that causes Flames of Devotion on every fourth hit/crit (in avarage: 25% spell chance).

Edited March 11, 2016 by Boeroer

[Madscientist]

Thanks

some things:

 

- I thought there was an item that increases healing done. Maybe it has been changed or I read something wrong.

 

- Healing is calculated this way and not in the same way as damage? final = base * ( 1 + sum of all mods)  In your example the healing would be 150, not 156.

 

- FoD is a full attack, so dual wielding triggers the effect (in this case healing) twice? If this is true, then dual wielding vent pick with another weapon would also trigger the effect twice?

Weapon focus ruffian and a sabre in the other hand would be nice. Pistol as ranged weapon.

 

- strange mercy and sword and shepard heal only others, not the paladin himself?

[Ymarsakar]

Thanks

some things:

 

- I thought there was an item that increases healing done. Maybe it has been changed or I read something wrong.

 

- Healing is calculated this way and not in the same way as damage? final = base * ( 1 + sum of all mods)  In your example the healing would be 150, not 156.

 

- FoD is a full attack, so dual wielding triggers the effect (in this case healing) twice? If this is true, then dual wielding vent pick with another weapon would also trigger the effect twice?

Weapon focus ruffian and a sabre in the other hand would be nice. Pistol as ranged weapon.

 

- strange mercy and sword and shepard heal only others, not the paladin himself?

 

Probably intentional with strange mercy. Flames on Pallegina with her order special, doesn't give her 20% attack speed either. More of a group support thing.

 

They really buffed up that amulet. Was like 10-15% before, and didn't really know how to use it.

[Boeroer]

Thanks

some things:

 

- I thought there was an item that increases healing done. Maybe it has been changed or I read something wrong.

 

- Healing is calculated this way and not in the same way as damage? final = base * ( 1 + sum of all mods)  In your example the healing would be 150, not 156.

 

- FoD is a full attack, so dual wielding triggers the effect (in this case healing) twice? If this is true, then dual wielding vent pick with another weapon would also trigger the effect twice?

Weapon focus ruffian and a sabre in the other hand would be nice. Pistol as ranged weapon.

 

- strange mercy and sword and shepard heal only others, not the paladin himself?

Don't know about the item - can't think of any that ever did this.

 

Yep - "healing received" mod gets multiplied, not added. You can test that with a fighter who has constant recovery and some might and then watch what happens when you put on a belt of bountiful healing and use the resting bonus.

 

Oh - that's a really good question. But I think it's the other way round: using FoD triggers the Healing and a Full Attack. It's not that every hit of the Full Attack is a FoD use in itself. So I guess it just triggers once - if you dual wield or not. But you can always test that and tell us what happened.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Boeroer

[Madscientist]

I knew there was something. This thing from a stronghold quest boosts healing done.

 

I did some thinking.

Is dual wielding or 2h better for a damaging paladin? Especially if he wants as much finishing blows as possible.

FoD is a full attack, so dual would be better here.

This is a front liner so he needs some armor. You suggested the sanguine plate, that sounds good.

I read somewhere that heavy armor gives a greater penalty for 1h or 2h than for dual wield (you do more % of the time attacking in a whole attack/recover cycle).

Is this true? Any information about this game is outdated fast.

 

I chose 2h sword mostly for role playing reasons (in memory of the good old holy avenger)

I gave pallagine tidefall in my current game. I gave her st. waidwens redeemer, but for the next upgrade I have to revieve her 5 times in combat.

It is almost impossible to die in most battles (I play on hard, not PotD), and in a hard battle I want to keep my party alive.

[KDubya]

I knew there was something. This thing from a stronghold quest boosts healing done.

 

I did some thinking.

Is dual wielding or 2h better for a damaging paladin? Especially if he wants as much finishing blows as possible.

FoD is a full attack, so dual would be better here.

This is a front liner so he needs some armor. You suggested the sanguine plate, that sounds good.

I read somewhere that heavy armor gives a greater penalty for 1h or 2h than for dual wield (you do more % of the time attacking in a whole attack/recover cycle).

Is this true? Any information about this game is outdated fast.

 

I chose 2h sword mostly for role playing reasons (in memory of the good old holy avenger)

I gave pallagine tidefall in my current game. I gave her st. waidwens redeemer, but for the next upgrade I have to revieve her 5 times in combat.

It is almost impossible to die in most battles (I play on hard, not PotD), and in a hard battle I want to keep my party alive.

 

To upgrade the Redeemer I just send the wielder out naked and alone, when they get KO'd I revive them and let them get KO'd again until I get the five revives in combat. The Chanter works well with the revive chant as you can just keep singing and use it again and again.

 

You are correct about the FoD being best with dual wield. Dual Sabres would probably do the best. Plus you can stack Durgan enhancements, Outlander's Frenzy, Dual wield and speed enchants to get to zero recovery much easier with dual wield than two handers.

 

I believe that average speed one handed, with shield and two handers all are 30/60 frames for attack/recovery while dual wielding is 30/30 frames. I believe that if both get to zero recovery than the best DPS is from a two hander as it will swing just as fast as each dual wielded weapon.

 

For a two hander you pretty much need to use an Alacrity potion to get 1.5(alacrity)*1.15(durgan)*1.2(speed)= 2.07 which is enough for durgan robes or durgan padded armor. Adding Gauntlets of speed gets you to 2.38 which is enough for durgan plate or plain scale. I think there are two speed two handers - Blade of the endless Path Estoc and the quarterstaff on level 3 of the endless path.

 

Dual wielding gives you more options to get to zero recovery. With Outlanders Frenzy(1.25)*Durgan weapon(1.15)*Durgan weapon(1.15)*Speed(1.2) + 0.2 (dual wield) = 2.18 which is enough for robes or durgan leather. A second speed weapon and/or Gauntlets of speed will get you to where you can use Vulnerable Attack and wear durgan plate. This lets you do this every battle as it doesn't require a potion.

 

A Durgan shield also adds to your speed. 1.25(Outlanders)*1.15(Durgan weapon)*1.2(Speed)*1.15(durgan shield)*1.15 (gauntlets of speed) = 2.28 which is enough for durgan scale or Vulnerable attack with Durgan Padded. Harder to get than the dual wielder but lets you use a shield and also does not need a potion.

[Boeroer]

In my opinion FoD-attacks are a bit wasted in melee - be it two-handed or two weapon style (only exception maybe Firebrand). For maximum kill stealing for Strange Mercy - combinend with a fitting "roleplaying style" I'd use two arquebuses for the two FoD attacks (in order to trigger healing and bring down tough enemies near death) and use a Great Sword (Rumbalt, Tidefall, Justice*) plus the Redeemer for the killing blow. Against vessels you will get tons of kills because of the destroy enchantment. Against all others every bit of +dmg mod will do you good. So +15% of two handed style is welcome. I think I'd go for a max enchanted Hours of St. Rumbalt with a burning lash beause it fits the theme. You could try to take Apprentice's Sneak Attack (if there's any more room for that) because it will be nice together with the prone on crit. After lvl 13 it all doesn't matter anyways.

 

If you want to achieve kills by melee damage only I would also aim for 0 recovery and use the Sanguine Plate or Outlander's Frenzy + either:

- 2 x Rimecutter 

- Sword of Daenysis + March Steel Dagger

 

Or do it like AndreaColumbo and use his LoP with BotEP and transfer it to the Kind Wayfarer. You will do less dps, but still a lot.

 

Or max out MIG and use Abydon's Hammer. If you also wear the Maegfolc Skull, you can do a lot of melee damage but also all your heals will be very powerful because of the +12 MIG (+4 Skull, +4 Hammer, +4 Frenzy from Sanguine Plate). Combine that with the +15% healing-done-item above.

I'm running a priest of eothas atm with this setup and his Consecrated Ground from Shod in Faith is so powerful. Can't imagine what would happen if he also could do Silver Tide, Strange Mercy and The Sword and the Sheperd.  

 

 

 

 

*Justice is maybe not too bad after all: it has a crushing lash (and that's kind of weird), but it also does +10% crush damage. Don't know how it's calculated against DR and stuff, but that can't be superbad against slash/pierce resistant foes who have a weakness towards crush.