Monk/Cipher dillema

[Phyriel]

Cipher: Twin Sting or Bow/Warbow?  Twin Sting seem uber good on paper right? But Time Parasite buffs only attack speed so reload on crossbow kind off **** block it right? On the bright side it fires 2 projectiles as I've read somewhere so its instant amplified wave/whatever u need. Can't make my mind here. 

 

Monk: Stick to unarmed + reaping knives later or try some dagger builds? I have The Unlabored Blade in mind and some other good dagger. Wondering what would be better actually as I don't rly understand mechanics on monk... does Turning Wheel and Lightning Wheel stack with Scion of Flame / Lightning Talent / Weapon Lash enchantments? I've heard unarmed + reaping knives is ultimate combo as you can stack weapon specializations to achieve some crazy accuracy and that it also turns all sort of dmg Monk make into raw? Is that true? Mind blown... On the other hand it relies on cipher skill which is already unfair to compare... 

[KDubya]

If you have Gunner and the Chanter speed chant the crossbow starts looking much better and is definitely cooler than using a bow.

 

For the Unlabored Blade Maneha can get great use out of it with Carnage, lots of hits and lots of procs.

 

With a Monk you could pair it with March Steel Dagger for two speed weapons, or Drawn in Spring for some big damage.

[ottffsse]

On monk I like durganized aatauk dagger (get from boss in skaen temple in dyrford) for 30% crits and enervating blows to weaken enemy on crit. Drawn in spring is awesome too but you can't really beat dps of fists. Maybe one dagger (with speed or durganized) in the off hand and just use fist as main hand weapon. With speed gauntlets you can approach 0 recovery that way and still "punch" with your right hand. Unlabeled blade is sick but even more sick on a barb.

 

Twin sting is decent but not top of the line main weapon for a cipher as you can buff attack speed with top of the line weapons too. Those being your choice of stormcaller, persistence, or rain of godagh field. And if you do use a chanter and speed buffs an upgraded durganized lead spitter will beat out twin sting too.

[LightLance]

Do's twing sting shot with two charges really, i.e. potential double damage? There is no 2 charges property in description unlike it's for example for bluderbuss.

[Crucis]

Do's twing sting shot with two charges really, i.e. potential double damage? There is no 2 charges property in description unlike it's for example for bluderbuss.

 

Twin Sting doesn't appear to fire two bolts.  I'm using it right now on my PC rogue, and even fully upgraded, it's underwhelming.  KDubya makes a good suggestion about having the Gunner talent (which my rogues doesn't) and using the Chanter reload speed enhancing chant (which I haven't been using, but certainly can, since I do have Kana and he does have that chant in his repertoire).  (And I'm thinking about respeccing my Rogue to add the Gunner talent, because I really, really want to give Twin Sting a fair shot.

[Boeroer]

Drawn in spring is awesome too but you can't really beat dps of fists. 

Oh yes it can. Fully enchanted it does more damage because the wounding stacks. But I also like monk's fists a lot.

 

Did they fix the mechanic when you are wielding a single weapon in your left hand (fist in the right)? In former times this was not considered dual wielding (fist+weapon). 

[Crucis]

Cipher: Twin Sting or Bow/Warbow?  Twin Sting seem uber good on paper right? But Time Parasite buffs only attack speed so reload on crossbow kind off **** block it right? On the bright side it fires 2 projectiles as I've read somewhere so its instant amplified wave/whatever u need. Can't make my mind here. 

 

Monk: Stick to unarmed + reaping knives later or try some dagger builds? I have The Unlabored Blade in mind and some other good dagger. Wondering what would be better actually as I don't rly understand mechanics on monk... does Turning Wheel and Lightning Wheel stack with Scion of Flame / Lightning Talent / Weapon Lash enchantments? I've heard unarmed + reaping knives is ultimate combo as you can stack weapon specializations to achieve some crazy accuracy and that it also turns all sort of dmg Monk make into raw? Is that true? Mind blown... On the other hand it relies on cipher skill which is already unfair to compare... 

 

For the cipher, as long as you don't have a ranger in the party, I'd STRONGLY suggest the stormcaller hunting bow.  It may not be quite as special as it is when used by a ranger, but it's still an awesome weapon in a cipher's hands.

 

As for the monk, Reaping Knives is AWESOME on monks and rogues, and when wearing lighter armor so that they can have the fastest recovery and attack speeds possible.  Reaping Knives don't hit as hard as the big nasty 2H weapons.  But with their raw damage, they are at their best on characters who are attacking as fast as possible to get in as many attacks as possible.  Heck, if the situation is really critical, like attacking a dragon or something, you might consider having the monk (or rogue) chug a Haste potion at the same time the cipher's casting the reaping knives spell, to turn your character into a reaping whirlwind of destruction!!!

[ottffsse]

Yes they do count as dual wield on monks as long as the dagger is in the left hand. That is how I run zahua now, fist right, drawn in spring or aatuuk left depending if I need weaken or dot more.

[ottffsse]

I have a dilemma of finally just putting persistence on my cipher because the other weapons ie stormcaller and even the unique textured godagh field look sexy and persistence seriously looks like a twig but does like 40% more damage than any other weapon.

[LightLance]

Twin Sting doesn't appear to fire two bolts.

Yes, so i think Vengdar with durgan steel  more powerfull then twin sting.

[Boeroer]

Don't forget the -6 shock DR of Stormcaller. Together with Pen. Shot you'll get -11 DR. One big dilemma of a hunting-bow-cipher against armored targets is the lack of focus gain. Persistence doesn't help that at all. With Stormcaller you don't have that problem any more AND there's a chance it will proc Soul Shock.

[Boeroer]

Of course Twin Sting fires two bolts. If you look into the combat log you will see that it hits twice - like a blunderbuss hits six times. It will give you +6 focus for each attack if you use it on a cipher. That can be really critical if you fight high DR targets. Wengär is inferior to that as long as you don't enchant it with everthing there is.

 

It's also no problem to take an initial shot with Twin Sting for great damage and +6 focus on top and then switch to a bow. It's a soulbound weapon with a universal Weapon Focus after all.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Boeroer

[LightLance]

Of course Twin Sting fires two bolts. If you look into the combat log you will see that it hits twice - like a blunderbuss hits six times. 

I just have checked log in combat. There was one shot.

[ottffsse]

Don't forget the -6 shock DR of Stormcaller. Together with Pen. Shot you'll get -11 DR. One big dilemma of a hunting-bow-cipher against armored targets is the lack of focus gain. Persistence doesn't help that at all. With Stormcaller you don't have that problem any more AND there's a chance it will proc Soul Shock.

The only concern is focus generation. Damage there is no question. I tested it again against someone in plate armor (11 shock Dr 25 Pierce dr) so I assumed that would level the playing field. Nope. Stormcaller 620 damage per minute average (not including soul shock which may trigger 1-2x in the time span I grant it that). Durganized superb (not yet legendary) persistence: 850 damage per minute. Those raw damage dots stack up. But if you use gun shots to generate focus at the beginning of the battle anyway it's not a problem. But it looks like a twig.

[Boeroer]

The damage of persistence is higher because of the wounding and maybe a lash. But sadly that doesn't generate focus. So I guess as a cipher who doesn't want to shoot only you're still better off with Stormcaller, what do you think?

[ottffsse]

The damage of persistence is higher because of the wounding and maybe a lash. But sadly that doesn't generate focus. So I guess as a cipher who doesn't want to shoot only you're still better off with Stormcaller, what do you think?

Probably for most of the game. But I now stacked might up to 37 (with priest), got all damage talents like baby sneak attack and survival at 12 for another 20% flanking bonus and the lvl2 ability to cause flank on foes. I think I can do a lot of damage even with a hunting bow but this happens late in the game. Will see if I like it more than godagh field which I have been using so far. Of course I have pen shot and also a wizard for expose vulnerability.

Edited March 8, 2016 by ottffsse

[MaxQuest]

Cipher: Twin Sting or Bow/Warbow?

Till this very moment, I was absolutely sure that a good Warbow is the best weapon for a ranged cipher.

Reason being: it has the highest base damage, between non-reloading stuff, and it's easy to reduce it's action time to just the attacking phase.

Simple calculations indicate that a superb warbow has potential to out-dps a blunderbuss when hitting low-DR targets, and be on par with arquebuses when hitting a 30DR 'wall'. 

 

To resume it, top weapons would be:

- against 0 DR: fast-recovery Persistence, blunderbuses | (fast as in "close to zero")

- against 10 DR: fast-recovery warbows and Stormcaller 

- against 20 DR: fast-recovery warbows reign supreme

- against 30 DR: fast-recovery warbows, Dulcanale and a good dps arquebus if there were any. (well, maybe Pliambo per Casitàs, but disorienting is weak effect for it)

Overall: it's Sabra Marie at zero recovery and high enough acc (enough to eliminate grazes). Or The Rain of Godagh Field if you could not bring Sabra Marie below 20% rec. Other worth mentioning choice is Borresaine if you are ok with sacrificing ~5%-10% of damage for it's stuns on crits.

-------

But now that it was mentioned that Twin Stings fires two shots... it can be the next best thing.

Edited March 8, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Phyriel]

Hah I love those forums already:P All it takes is throw a bone and action begins:P Thats insane! But following my op WOW! So you can actually use fist as "main hand" and dagger in left hand. Thats good to learn. As for reaping knives I thought I'm gonna get them at lvl 13 on cipher which is not the case so I'll progress with this dagger monk voyage meanwhile. Godbless respec option! 

[Boeroer]

 

Of course Twin Sting fires two bolts. If you look into the combat log you will see that it hits twice - like a blunderbuss hits six times. 

I just have checked log in combat. There was one shot.

 

Don't know why - for me it's two hits. Maybe I can check again and post a screenshot...

[nem0]

 

 

Of course Twin Sting fires two bolts. If you look into the combat log you will see that it hits twice - like a blunderbuss hits six times. 

I just have checked log in combat. There was one shot.

 

Don't know why - for me it's two hits. Maybe I can check again and post a screenshot...

 

I thought it might give two hits given its name and design but at least when not upgraded all the way mine just gets 1 hit plus the raw damage.

[Boeroer]

Here it is (and it's sad):

 

- deleted because total nonsense -  

 

Edit: Argh! What I just posted above was the second hit of Driving Flight! My bad! So forget what I said. Sorry for the confusion. It was Driving Flight all along that made me believe it hit twice - that and the two numbers that pop out of enemies' heads because of the raw damage. So it seems to be totally bugged. 

 

But I could swear I hit twice with a cipher when I did a quick test - when WMII was released. Maybe 3.01 broke Twin Sting?

Edited March 8, 2016 by Boeroer

[Braven]

If you have a focus generating machine, like reeping knives, it seems like all you need is two shots and then you will never need to attack with weapons again anyways since you will just be using focus powers.  Basically the same as a couple quick-switched guns, but without the micro-management (if the crossbow actually works like that)

Edited March 8, 2016 by Braven

[Boeroer]

Haha - now I got it: I used Twinned Arrows on Twin Sting and now it works: You can fire two bolts without reloading. But you will have recovery between the two shots. After the two shots you have to reload and get another two shots. So you don't have two shots in quick succession but two shots without reloading animation.

 

However - it can't be right that Twinned Arrows triggered this. Maybe that was just a coincidence. I will test a bit more and report. 

 

Nope - it also works without Twinned Arrows. But waht I experienced: If you move after the first shot then you don't get a second. It seems only to work if you are stationary. That's a bit stupid. Seems the the "magazine counter" gets set to zero when you move. They will have to fix that.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Boeroer

[LightLance]

I have suggestion Twin Sting dose two sequential shots each with own atack animation and without reloading, not simultaneous shots like Twinned Arrows or blunderbuss shot. It would be in agreement with Twin Sting description.

Edited March 8, 2016 by LightLance

[Boeroer]

Yes, see above.