Main Story, an atheist cliche?

[Brimsurfer]

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act..........

 

The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts.........

 

So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........

 

Bye 

[Silent Winter]

 

Again - coming back to the point of me asking this - your definition of 'proof' is 'conclusive proof' - we disagree on such a definition, but that's ok.  I'm not trying to offer you conclusive proof (or even offer you any proof at all by your standards).

I accept that my faith is based on faith and not proof.  All I did was try to clarify a point.

You have yet to define proof outside of, "if it is written then it is true."

That wasn't my definition - and I'd still like to hear yours.  If you're not willing to give one, why should I bother trying to reclarify mine?

As for your scholarly quotes - see 'How did people write at the time and for what purpose?' - writing that two things happened one right after the other, for example, when in truth they were separated by some time, was an accepted literary device. As was amalgamating separate events into one.  It doesn't mean they  didn't happen.

 

For the last time - this isn't my 'persuasive argument' to you to turn you into a Christian.  You asked what 'proof' could mean (since I pointed out you were having a semantic argument with another poster without realising it) - I equated it to 'evidence' - a bloody glove won't convict you but it is included.  Several separate writings all agreeing on central points (and only disagreeing as far as things like Mark writing things down in a different order or summarising separate events as one) is evidence.

Several events in my own life are evidence too, but I wouldn't expect you to take my word for it.

 

There are perfectly reasonable explanations for all these so-called 'inconsistencies' that it would take very little research to find.  But I've been down that road so many times before that it becomes tiresome to revisit it on every internet forum.

 

 

Yes they are.

 

From your link, the author says:

"First of all, I should say that none of the four canonical Gospels names its own author, none of them claim to be eyewitness accounts or even to have spoken to eyewitness of Jesus." [sic - should be eyewitnesses or an eyewitness]

Well:

From John's Gospel:  This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down.

And Luke "carefully researched everything from the beginning" - uses 1st person in parts and was with Paul when they went to Jerusalem (meeting "those who were eye-witnesses" - the apostles, at least Peter).  Not to mention personally seeing miracles performed by Paul in the name of Jesus.  Hence his writing of Luke-Acts.

 

You may not accept the above,  but it's my position on the matter.

Again, you quote the Bible to try to prove the validity of the Bible... lol

 

Nope - I quoted the Bible to prove that the claims made by the author you linked to were wrong.  Read it again.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Silent Winter

[Silent Winter]

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act..........

 

The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts.........

 

So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........

 

Bye 

I apologise for my part in that.

I'll leave it there.

[Bartimaeus]

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act..........

 

The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts.........

 

So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........

 

Bye

Ah, that explains why I didn't see this pile of garbage before it was already 8 pages long.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act..........

 

The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts.........

 

So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........

 

Bye 

your personal conspiracy theory were unsupportable and uninteresting, which is why participants in the thread ignored your raison d'etre for creating the thread. gonna take your ball and play somewheres else? is one option, we s'pose.

 

...

 

even so, we would expect more from a would-be general zod.

 

HA! Good Fun!   

[gogocactus]

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act..........

 

The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts.........

 

So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........

 

Bye

I'd like to highlight how bothersome - in the sense of being an absolute drag - your unsupported conspiracy theories were. Talking about shoving nihilism down someone's throat? I have yet to make up my mind as to whether the above consists of a supreme act of trolling, an attempt to gain self validation or delusion. Either way, regarding your announcement: I would appreciate it if you would leave the topic at Reddit as well. Thank you very much.

[Gorth]

Seems like we've moved beyond POE altogether.

Great, I just read the firt few pages and moved it to the POE section...

[Crucis]

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act..........

 

The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts.........

 

So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........

 

Bye 

 

Oh come on.  Would you say that the designers of D&D's Forgotten Realms setting were trying to shove their personal beliefs down peoples' throats when they have a polytheistic religious structure?  Or do you only make this claim when PoE's designers do something a little different and say that the deities in PoE's polytheistic religious structure turned out to have been actually created by the people of an ancient civilization? 

 

It sounds to me that there may be some hypocrisy here. 

[Wozzeck]

Well, it's obviously always the others, that are indoctrinating.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Good to see this thread was sent back to whence it came. Please don't defile WoT like that again.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist II

[rheingold]

 

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act..........

 

The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts.........

 

So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........

 

Bye 

your personal conspiracy theory were unsupportable and uninteresting, which is why participants in the thread ignored your raison d'etre for creating the thread. gonna take your ball and play somewheres else? is one option, we s'pose.

 

...

 

even so, we would expect more from a would-be general zod.

 

HA! Good Fun!   

 

Even if the lead designer was shoving his nilhist beliefs down people's throats which I don't believe he is doing for a moment, that would be fine - he's the lead designer....

Much like a writer is free to write about what they want - you really don't have to like the book, but they have a right to express their views. Why should a game be any different? Seriously get off your high horse, we get that you are religious and don't like anyone questioning YOUR religious beliefs  (presumably you don't mind if someone criticizes another made up god), but I am not. And as I have said before it's not even about criticizing religion rather its an attempt to question religions role in society. If you don't get that then I don't know.

[house2fly]

*plays a game where you forge connections with your friends, watches tearjerking ending slides where they go on to be better people for having met you* these damn nihilists!!!!

[rheingold]

^ Yeah its really easy to see how being an atheist and believing in silly things like life, love, art, science, family, friends and coffee can be misconstrued as being a nilhist.... and living a life completely devoid of meaning.

Edited March 9, 2016 by rheingold

[gogocactus]

^ Yeah its really easy to see how being an atheist and believing in silly things like life, love, art, science, family, friends and coffee can be misconstrued as being a nilhist.... and living a life completely devoid of meaning.

To be honest, coffee is one thing I don't want to believe in. But alas, it's hard to ignore it's call and beckoning.

[rheingold]

 

^ Yeah its really easy to see how being an atheist and believing in silly things like life, love, art, science, family, friends and coffee can be misconstrued as being a nilhist.... and living a life completely devoid of meaning.

To be honest, coffee is one thing I don't want to believe in. But alas, it's hard to ignore it's call and beckoning.

 

Ha, I do admit coffee smells better than it tastes. Nothing like walking into a good coffee shop.

[house2fly]

I fill a cup with ice and then pour in hot coffee, the coffee melts the ice and the ice chills the coffee, and I chug it down and try not to interact with coffee too much other than that because I had a friend who got addicted to it and got caffeine withdrawal headaches all the time and that would suck.

[Caribou]

 

^ Yeah its really easy to see how being an atheist and believing in silly things like life, love, art, science, family, friends and coffee can be misconstrued as being a nilhist.... and living a life completely devoid of meaning.

To be honest, coffee is one thing I don't want to believe in. But alas, it's hard to ignore it's call and beckoning.

 

 

I hope you drink your coffee black, as it was meant to be, and not perverting its beany glory with cream or sugar like a heretic.

[Brimsurfer]

Its funny how people keep repeating the same stuff over and over again, but its just so plainly apparent from the dialogue of final act, that personal dispositions of the writer got the better of him and he strayed off the path of true creativity and story writing.....

 

I don't see a son of God crucified in Tolkein stories neither do I see absence of God seeping through R. R. Martins writing nor do I see personal dispositions of C. S. Lewis distorting his fantasy tales.......this is not the way that you let your personal disposition get the better of you and you destroy a potentially great plot just to colour it with the shade of your personal and subjective ideologies......and denying a player any opportunity to suggest otherwise.......the whole dialogue of the final act went in one direction that Gods are a lie and people of Eora are misled into believing them.....and not a single dialogue option to suggest otherwise......and characters in the story also seem to accept it without much argument and story moves forward by accepting this as a universal truth.......

 

Its just blatant disregard for unhindered creativity......... 

 

Once again, I am not a religious person, to the people who are assuming I am religious, but it burns me to see when someone vomits their own personal ideologies into another's face without regards for much.....

Edited March 9, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Rosveen]

nor do I see personal dispositions of C. S. Lewis distorting his fantasy tales

You might possibly be blind.

[Caribou]

Once again, I am not a religious person, to the people who are assuming I am religious, but it burns me to see when someone vomits their own personal ideologies into another's face without regards for much.....

 

Strange you would use C.S. Lewis's Narnia series as an example of an author NOT shoving religion down someone's throat. Tolkien (an uber Catholic was a close friend of Lewis and is the one who converted him to Christianity in the first place) even thought the series' christian themes were too blunt and heavy handed.

 

How could PoE have ended that would have been more acceptable to you, honestly curious.

[rheingold]

CS Lewis and Tolkein were incredibly religious and their work is full of blatant Christianity propaganda, so much so that some of it offends me.

[Brimsurfer]

 

Once again, I am not a religious person, to the people who are assuming I am religious, but it burns me to see when someone vomits their own personal ideologies into another's face without regards for much.....

 

Strange you would use C.S. Lewis's Narnia series as an example of an author NOT shoving religion down someone's throat. Tolkien (an uber Catholic was a close friend of Lewis and is the one who converted him to Christianity in the first place) even thought the series' christian themes were too blunt and heavy handed.

 

How could PoE have ended that would have been more acceptable to you, honestly curious.

 

 

I am talking about CS Lewis's fantasy work only not his other writings and as for Narnia, the setting of World of Narnia was balanced between paganism, christianity and roman religeous concepts and the book does not accepts Christian concepts as universal truths of that World, character of Aslan may be symbolically based on Christ although with some questionable traits, but the story telling is so balanced that the book was actually criticised by the church for selling 'soft paganism and occultism' for quite a while after coming out....

 

However after seeing the popularity of the series, churches incorporated the tales of narnia in their songs and stuff focusing only on Christian ideas in the book and literally sticking to the idea that Aslan is Christ ignoring the rest of the setting of the world of Narnia.........  but its typical of Christians, they condemn something for being something and when it becomes successful they go back on their previous accusations and incorporate it in their curriculum focusing on anything that resembles their ideology........its bloody pretentious.....and despite all of that Christian concepts are not the universal truths of the World of Narnia........

 

Here in PoE the game accepts the idea of a world tricked into believing in unreal gods as a universal truth and the story in the final act unfolds only with this realisation, although there was plenty of room in the game's plot to go in multiple directions before the final act but in the final act the story shamelessly narrowed down to the writer's personal disposition in real life and that's what called as biased, impure or contaminated storytelling.

 

Like I said, all opportunity was taken from the player that would suggest otherwise (i felt like my wings were chopped and I felt trapped on the ground because before final act I was flying high....), there isn't even a single dialogue path or any contemplation that would indicate that there might be a possibility of actual Gods in the world of Eora or to suggest that there were flaws in Iovara's findings, even Thaos also failed to deny it......... there was only and only one message that was bluntly passed to players in the final act, all doors and corridors were deliberately closed and the game purposefully pushed the player in a singular direction that, 'the idea of existence of Gods is a lie, it is all just an elaborate and twisted plan to keep the affairs of the world in order........'

 

I mean how blunt a story teller can get in his bias.....its just ridiculous.......

[Brimsurfer]

CS Lewis and Tolkein were incredibly religious and their work is full of blatant Christianity propaganda, so much so that some of it offends me.

 

Thats only you mate as for CS Lewis's Narnia, the Christian concepts are not the universally accepted truths of the World of Narnia.......read my last post please for a bit more on this.......

[house2fly]

Here in PoE the game accepts the idea of a world tricked into believing in unreal gods as a universal truth

When something is revealed the game acts as if it has been revealed to you!  Quelle horreur!

 

 

 

in the final act the story shamelessly narrowed down to the writer's personal disposition in real life and that's what called as biased, impure or contaminated storytelling.

Go on then.  What is the writer's personal disposition in real life and how does it influence the story. Edited March 9, 2016 by house2fly

[Caribou]

 

Here in PoE the game accepts the idea of a world tricked into believing in unreal gods as a universal truth and the story in the final act unfolds only with this realisation, although there was plenty of room in the game's plot to go in multiple directions before the final act but in the final act the story shamelessly narrowed down to the writer's personal disposition in real life and that's what called as biased, impure or contaminated storytelling.

 

Like I said, all opportunity was taken from the player that would suggest otherwise (i felt like my wings were chopped and I felt trapped on the ground because before final act I was flying high....), there isn't even a single dialogue path or any contemplation that would indicate that there might be a possibility of actual Gods in the world of Eora or to suggest that there were flaws in Iovara's findings, even Thaos also failed to deny it......... there was only and only one message that was bluntly passed to players in the final act, all doors and corridors were deliberately closed and the game purposefully pushed the player in a singular direction that, 'the idea of existence of Gods is a lie, it is all just an elaborate and twisted plan to keep the affairs of the world in order........'

 

I mean how blunt a story teller can get in his bias.....its just ridiculous.......

 

 

Sounds like the writers were damned if they do, damned if they don't.   Would you feel the writer was biased and pushing his thoughts on you if the story ended with all gods were real and infallible?  How could the story have ended end satisfactorily to you?