Can't Finalize a Melee Cipher Build

[bmardiney]

Here's what I want: Cipher, dual-wielding (I don't care what, but I gather that stilletos are the way to go), able to survive melee combat (not tank, but still not go down in a few hits). I'm thinking:

 

Str 14

Con 10

Dex 16

Per 10

Int 18

Res 10

 

I'm guessing medium armor? I basically want half melee-fighter, half support-spellcaster. I kind of wish I had some resolve or perception for the story dialogues. Can someone convince me to take either of those over what I already have?

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 24, 2016 by bmardiney

[Mocker22]

A couple notes on your ideas....

 

-Your perception is WAY to low. Remember that accuracy effects your ciphers powers also. You simply won't be landing your spells and wasted focus is very bad, as you can't just cast another spell and hope the second one sticks. Drop con and res a bit, and maybe even int to 15-16. There are plenty of int boosting items and you really only need some much AoE. The duration bonus is nice but if your ability is a graze or misses it won't matter anyway.

 

-Where do you get the idea for stilettos? There is only one decent one that I can think of. Stiletto is possibly my absolute last choice of a weapon to dual wield. Sabres, warhammers, battle axes, daggers, all would be much better. Maybe even some other options....depends on what you like. I would go sabre myself. Very high dmg with crits and a nice one you find offers healing to help save you in melee range. Ciphers get some abilities to boost accuracy so that will help you crit more. Consider running a paladin with a marking weapon and coordinated attacks to further boost accuracy, and of course a priest is always an epic buffer.

[Sifjar]

I also preparing self to start new run after WM2 was released.

Thinking of full melee party: paladin, chanter, barbarian, monk, cipher and priest hanging at their backs.

Should be fun

[bmardiney]

A couple notes on your ideas....

 

-Your perception is WAY to low. Remember that accuracy effects your ciphers powers also. You simply won't be landing your spells and wasted focus is very bad, as you can't just cast another spell and hope the second one sticks. Drop con and res a bit, and maybe even int to 15-16. There are plenty of int boosting items and you really only need some much AoE. The duration bonus is nice but if your ability is a graze or misses it won't matter anyway.

 

-Where do you get the idea for stilettos? There is only one decent one that I can think of. Stiletto is possibly my absolute last choice of a weapon to dual wield. Sabres, warhammers, battle axes, daggers, all would be much better. Maybe even some other options....depends on what you like. I would go sabre myself. Very high dmg with crits and a nice one you find offers healing to help save you in melee range. Ciphers get some abilities to boost accuracy so that will help you crit more. Consider running a paladin with a marking weapon and coordinated attacks to further boost accuracy, and of course a priest is always an epic buffer.

Interesting. I was reading stilettos because of the armor bypass (which is the main way to make fast weapons effective). The idea being that you want to gather focus from lots of small hits. You're saying that it's better to have slower attack but hit for more. Hmm, okay. So then what would your attribute layout be?

[Boeroer]

I think stilettos are not bad for a dual wielding cipher. They are fast and give you 3 DR bypass. It's like adding +3 damage to every hit. That's a good thing for fast weapons. Then there's a rending stiletto in the game (Bleak Fang) which is really nice, although it comes quite late if you choose to wait with Act III. If you like to unlock Act III first and then go do the expansions it's not so late. You could even use the Helwax Mold to duplicate a fully enchanted Bleak Fang. That would give you two Spell Strikings of Touch of Rot (really nice AoE damage for free) and a DR bypass of 3(stiletto)+5(Vuln. Attack)+3(Ryona's)+3(rending) = 14. You can then cast Body Attunement if your target has way more DR than that.

 

But with all fast hitting weapons that don't do a lot of damage per hit you have the problen that a) the +x% damage modifiers work better on higher base damage and b) you really don't want to get interrupted a lot. So dropping RES is maybe not the best option. As Mocker22 said: higher PER is also needed if you want to hit better with your powers.

 

You could lower INT a bit. 15 seems to be sufficient. So with Stilettos and as the main character I would use stats like (race & background included):

 

MIG: 10

CON: 08

DEX: 15

PER: 15

INT: 15

RES: 15

 

Your dialogue options will be good, your reflex and will defenses also. Fortitude is not so great. You could swap MIG with RES if you feel you don't need the dialoge thing, you want to do more damage with your powers or if you don't get interrupted a lot (depends on your party composition and playstyle).

 

But that'S just my approach. It really depends how you play the game. Luckily you can always retrain if you feel a build or stat distribution doesn't fit your playstyle.

 

Edit: Oh and I forgot: With the buffed Psychovampiric Shield and light armor you should do well if you don't get surrounded and flanked. A nice thing is to have two melee ciphers: Casting Pain Block onto each other is great - as well as using Tactical Meld together and flank one target.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Boeroer

[Mocker22]

I don't really feel like 3 more damage per hit is that worth it. Remember that your Cipher will have +40% damage once you take Biting Whip talent. I would pick weapons that have a higher base damage. If your planning on using light armor you'll be able to attack very fast still and with the right gear and spells probably be at zero recovery.

[bmardiney]

I think stilettos are not bad for a dual wielding cipher. They are fast and give you 3 DR bypass. It's like adding +3 damage to every hit. That's a good thing for fast weapons. Then there's a rending stiletto in the game (Bleak Fang) which is really nice, although it comes quite late if you choose to wait with Act III. If you like to unlock Act III first and then go do the expansions it's not so late. You could even use the Helwax Mold to duplicate a fully enchanted Bleak Fang. That would give you two Spell Strikings of Touch of Rot (really nice AoE damage for free) and a DR bypass of 3(stiletto)+5(Vuln. Attack)+3(Ryona's)+3(rending) = 14. You can then cast Body Attunement if your target has way more DR than that.

 

But with all fast hitting weapons that don't do a lot of damage per hit you have the problen that a) the +x% damage modifiers work better on higher base damage and b) you really don't want to get interrupted a lot. So dropping RES is maybe not the best option. As Mocker22 said: higher PER is also needed if you want to hit better with your powers.

 

You could lower INT a bit. 15 seems to be sufficient. So with Stilettos and as the main character I would use stats like (race & background included):

 

MIG: 10

CON: 08

DEX: 15

PER: 15

INT: 15

RES: 15

 

Your dialogue options will be good, your reflex and will defenses also. Fortitude is not so great. You could swap MIG with RES if you feel you don't need the dialoge thing, you want to do more damage with your powers or if you don't get interrupted a lot (depends on your party composition and playstyle).

 

But that'S just my approach. It really depends how you play the game. Luckily you can always retrain if you feel a build or stat distribution doesn't fit your playstyle.

 

Edit: Oh and I forgot: With the buffed Psychovampiric Shield and light armor you should do well if you don't get surrounded and flanked. A nice thing is to have two melee ciphers: Casting Pain Block onto each other is great - as well as using Tactical Meld together and flank one target.

Wow, 10 might. That seems weak to me. Seems like 10 res and 15 might makes more sense. Maybe split the difference and go 13/12?

[Boeroer]

Just try it out I'd say. You can always retrain. It doesn't make a lot of difference anyway when you reach mid levels.

 

By the way I'd always pick Tall Grass or Llawran's Stick or Bittercut + Sura's Supper Plate every time. But I don't think dual stilettos are a bad choice. It's just to risky for my low micro playstyle.

 

And I forgot: for stilettos you can get +4 ACC from that talent "Flick of the Wrist" you get in the Gref's Rest. That's not too bad since it's free and stacks with everything.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

Interesting. I was reading stilettos because of the armor bypass (which is the main way to make fast weapons effective). The idea being that you want to gather focus from lots of small hits. You're saying that it's better to have slower attack but hit for more. Hmm, okay.

Well, I can imagine stilettos being useful against an enemy with low DR and huuuge deflection, such that you mostly hit and graze him. This is when DR bypass is most useful.

But usually a large one-handed weapon is a better bet. The extra base damage helps you overcome DR too, but unlike static DR reduction it also scales with crits. And sabres are especially good at it.

 

So to resume:

- you have maxed dex, and now have low per/mig? Stilletos

- you have high mig and maxed per? Sabres

- you have average mig and maxed per? Battle Axes (but Resolution sabre will make it too)

 

Wow, 10 might. That seems weak to me. Seems like 10 res and 15 might makes more sense. Maybe split the difference and go 13/12?

Cipher and rogue are probably the only classes that can be ok with 10 mig, while being played as pure dps.

For example cipher has to thank his soul and biting whips. They add +0.4 to your damage coefficient.

Having 14 mig instead of 10 would add 0.12 to your dmg.coef. And with a superb weapon it's not a big deal if you hit for x1.85 or x1.97. The difference is only 6.4%. And with a crit-inclided build it would be even less

Edited February 24, 2016 by MaxQuest

[bmardiney]

Awesome, so quick question - how does one make a crit-inclined build? I know how to do it in D&D 3.5 edition, but no clue here

[Boeroer]

Stack as much ACC as you can and stack all the +0.x to crit damage things. Like annihilating on weapons, the doemenel talent "Merciless Hand", Fur Rabbit Gloves, the talent "Dungeon Delver". Also add Bloody Slaughter.

[bmardiney]

Great, thanks.