Best item to use the Helwax Mold on? (Spoilers probably)

[Boeroer]

Vent Pick only procs the +50% burning lash part of FoD - it doesn't trigger any animation and also no Full Attack. Talents for FoD like Intense Flames don't work with the Pick's FoD. Same thing with Sanguine Plate and Greater Frenzy.

 

I'd say one of the best items for duplication - dps wise - is The Flames of Fair Rhîan. It's an exceptional sabre with a burning lash that gives you 3 Fireballs per rest - which makles it 6 per rest if you duplicate it. A rogue with that setup can dual wield sabres for good damage and also throw fireballs like crazy - which work with Deathblows and Scion of Flame (not Sneak Attack). So his best single target damage multiplier of +100% also translates to AoE damage and Scion of Flame gets on top. And most of the time he will crit with the Fireballs, too, because he has hit-to-crit conversion and high ACC - combined with the +10 ACC from Fireball itself. Add some Fireball scrolls or Rolling FLames in case you run out of spells per rest and you're ready to go. 

 

For a barb I would try the Forgemaster's Gloves. 6 times Firebrand per rest is better than 3 per rest. You can use it all the time then. Also good if you have two characters int the party who might want to use it (monsterlash paladin with on-kill-effects/barbarian/rogue).

[Elric Galad]

Duplicating a weapon seems a bit of a waste IMHO. There's a lot of excellent weapons in this game, and few are unique enough to justify this choice (I do understand the choice of the fireball saber by the way.). Just pick another one, refine it, enchant it and you won't need it. Like Purgatory/Resolution for example.

 

My choice would be Little Savior (Made legendary and refined). A party with Double Little Savior (+Outworn Buckler) would be very well protected !

[Blades of Vanatar]

Vent Pick only procs the +50% burning lash part of FoD - it doesn't trigger any animation and also no Full Attack. Talents for FoD like Intense Flames don't work with the Pick's FoD. Same thing with Sanguine Plate and Greater Frenzy.

 

I'd say one of the best items for duplication - dps wise - is The Flames of Fair Rhîan. It's an exceptional sabre with a burning lash that gives you 3 Fireballs per rest - which makles it 6 per rest if you duplicate it. A rogue with that setup can dual wield sabres for good damage and also throw fireballs like crazy - which work with Deathblows and Scion of Flame (not Sneak Attack). So his best single target damage multiplier of +100% also translates to AoE damage and Scion of Flame gets on top. And most of the time he will crit with the Fireballs, too, because he has hit-to-crit conversion and high ACC - combined with the +10 ACC from Fireball itself. Add some Fireball scrolls or Rolling FLames in case you run out of spells per rest and you're ready to go.

 

For a barb I would try the Forgemaster's Gloves. 6 times Firebrand per rest is better than 3 per rest. You can use it all the time then. Also good if you have two characters int the party who might want to use it (monsterlash paladin with on-kill-effects/barbarian/rogue).

Does the Rogue bonuses also apply to the flame spell on the Sun Mail? Or any other item that does damage via spell like ability?

[Elric Galad]

Deathblow does apply to anything.

Sneak attack does apply to nothing.

(Except apprentice sneak attack which apply to Wrath of the Five Suns. Small detail but good to know given how good this ability is.)

Edited May 31, 2016 by Elric Galad

[Kaylon]

For a barb I would try the Forgemaster's Gloves. 6 times Firebrand per rest is better than 3 per rest. You can use it all the time then. Also good if you have two characters int the party who might want to use it (monsterlash paladin with on-kill-effects/barbarian/rogue).

Have you tested that? I tried using multiple rings with combusting wounds and it doesn't work...

[Loren Tyr]

Combusting Wounds doesn't work at the moment; should be fixed in 3.03. Not sure how it relates to Forgemaster's Gloves though. 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Loren Tyr

[Kaylon]

Combusting Wounds doesn't work at the moment; should be fixed in 3.03. Not sure how it relates to Forgemaster's Gloves though.

 

I was talking about stacking charges. The fact that the spell doesn't work is irrelevant here.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Kaylon

[bigwillystyle]

 

For a barb I would try the Forgemaster's Gloves. 6 times Firebrand per rest is better than 3 per rest. You can use it all the time then. Also good if you have two characters int the party who might want to use it (monsterlash paladin with on-kill-effects/barbarian/rogue).

Have you tested that? I tried using multiple rings with combusting wounds and it doesn't work...

 

It sounds like it should work, in theory.  You can only wear one pair of gloves at a time, so you'd just swap out the pair that exhausted it's charges with the pair in inventory.  (as opposed to two rings, one on each hand).

 

I'd try it, but don't have a spare helwax mold lying around

[Kaylon]

 

 

For a barb I would try the Forgemaster's Gloves. 6 times Firebrand per rest is better than 3 per rest. You can use it all the time then. Also good if you have two characters int the party who might want to use it (monsterlash paladin with on-kill-effects/barbarian/rogue).

Have you tested that? I tried using multiple rings with combusting wounds and it doesn't work...

 

It sounds like it should work, in theory.  You can only wear one pair of gloves at a time, so you'd just swap out the pair that exhausted it's charges with the pair in inventory.  (as opposed to two rings, one on each hand).

 

I'd try it, but don't have a spare helwax mold lying around

 

Nobody forces you to wear the rings at the same time either...   

I just used an example of a common item which can be found multiple times and which should provide you, in "theory", more than 3 uses per rest. However the game won't allow more than 3 uses per rest no matter how many items you switch.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Kaylon

[TWPE]

Are you saying that swapping out two identical rings between combat didn't give you more charges?

[Blades of Vanatar]

That is correct. I have tried it with several item types. The system can't recognize a cloned item from the original. I tried it with White Spire when making an Ice Chanter. Blizzards didn't work on the cloned item. A Major miss that one is...

[Boeroer]

Hm... when I clone the Fireball sabre then I have 2 times 3 Fireballs per rest. The icons sit right next to each other. Works like it should. Same with dual Spelltongue and Corrosive Siphon (two icons with 1/rest each). It also used to work (maybe not after the latest patches) if I found more than one Cloak of Magic Missiles. So I assumed it also works with Forgemaster's Gloves. But I didn't test that. Only with the Flames of Fair Rhian and Spelltongue like 1 hour ago.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Boeroer

[TWPE]

Hm... when I clone the Fireball sabre then I have 2 times 3 Fireballs per rest. The icons sit right next to each other. Works like it should. Same with dual Spelltongue and Corrosive Siphon (two icons with 1/rest each). *snip* ... But I didn't test that. Only with the Flames of Fair Rhian and Spelltongue like 1 hour ago.

 

Perhaps that was because of dual-wielding?

Edited May 31, 2016 by TWPE

[Blades of Vanatar]

Hm... when I clone the Fireball sabre then I have 2 times 3 Fireballs per rest. The icons sit right next to each other. Works like it should. Same with dual Spelltongue and Corrosive Siphon (two icons with 1/rest each). It also used to work (maybe not after the latest patches) if I found more than one Cloak of Magic Missiles. So I assumed it also works with Forgemaster's Gloves. But I didn't test that. Only with the Flames of Fair Rhian and Spelltongue like 1 hour ago.

Did you console the dupe item into the game or Mold it? Maybe it makes a difference?

[Loren Tyr]

Can't imagine console duplicating makes any difference. It doesn't for me, anyway. I consoled a second Forgemaster's Gloves and did get three more Firebrands. To be sure I also consoled a Helwax Mold and copied my original (legitimately obtained) Gloves, same result. And two consoled Searing Flames rings also gave me six Combusting Wounds. 

[Blades of Vanatar]

Can't imagine console duplicating makes any difference. It doesn't for me, anyway. I consoled a second Forgemaster's Gloves and did get three more Firebrands. To be sure I also consoled a Helwax Mold and copied my original (legitimately obtained) Gloves, same result. And two consoled Searing Flames rings also gave me six Combusting Wounds.

Ok. Trigger 3 uses from the original and see if the dupe still has three more. That was my problem with the White Spire. As I used charges on one item they disappeared on the other. This was right after WM2 release using the Mold.

 

I was wondering if the Mold has some type of trigger happen when used in game as opposed to consoling in an item? I haven't modded this game like I have the Infinity Engine because who the heck has time for that these days, so that was a question from a naive player, not a modder per se.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Blades of Vanatar

[Loren Tyr]

I didn't use up all the charges, but they are tracked independently. Different Gloves/Rings had their own count, which was unaffected by using the other. So they must have fixed the bug in 3.01 or 3.02. Presumably the count was originally tied to the item ID (in conjunction with the character ID), rather than its instance ID. This would explain why even non-copied duplicates like Ring of Searing Flame would behave like this (but pre-Helwax Mold it wouldn't have been nearly as noticable).

[Boeroer]

 

Hm... when I clone the Fireball sabre then I have 2 times 3 Fireballs per rest. The icons sit right next to each other. Works like it should. Same with dual Spelltongue and Corrosive Siphon (two icons with 1/rest each). It also used to work (maybe not after the latest patches) if I found more than one Cloak of Magic Missiles. So I assumed it also works with Forgemaster's Gloves. But I didn't test that. Only with the Flames of Fair Rhian and Spelltongue like 1 hour ago.

Did you console the dupe item into the game or Mold it? Maybe it makes a difference?

 

Actually after my last post I tested both ways and they seem to work identically (Flames sabre and Spelltongue rapier). Cloak of Minor Missiles also works (did not "mold" that one, found it two times). Still didn't test Ring of Searing Flames and Forgemaster's Gloves though.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Can't imagine console duplicating makes any difference. It doesn't for me, anyway. I consoled a second Forgemaster's Gloves and did get three more Firebrands. To be sure I also consoled a Helwax Mold and copied my original (legitimately obtained) Gloves, same result. And two consoled Searing Flames rings also gave me six Combusting Wounds. 

Ah, great, thanks. I might be wrong but I think those things always worked for me. I remember piling up Rings of Searing Flames half a year ago for some build ideas and it worked for me. Maybe I just skipped the time between two patches when this was bugged?

[Blades of Vanatar]

Then I will try my Frost Chanter again if I get a chance tonight. I had the same issue with Muncara Arret eyepatch on your Drake Chanter build. I have a save with an unused Mold in the inventory.

[Boeroer]

For testing purposes you can also use the console to add the helwax mold.

 

Now I wonder what happens when you put a helwax mold into the helwax mold...

[Loren Tyr]

Internally, all it really does is run the existing item through a Copy constructor (actually, not sure they're called that in C#, but same thing), copies any item modifications from the old item to the new one, puts in your Stash, then makes the (expended) Helwax Mold disappear. So you just get a new Helwax Mold.

 

Or actually, you just get a message saying you can only duplicate equipment :-D. 

[Blades of Vanatar]

I just tried it again. I duplicated the White Spire to double my Blizzard castings. Duped it with the Mold. Added both copies to my weapon slots. Rested. Attacked citizens in DB. Cast Blizzard with the original, it lowered my uses to 2 Blizzards left. Switched to the molded copy and had NO Blizzards showing. Switched back to the original and 2 uses were showing. What the heck???

Edited June 1, 2016 by Blades of Vanatar

[MasterCipher]

Hey Boerer,

 

Do you know if deathblows works with fireball saber ?

[Boeroer]

Yes, it works. Deathblows works with everything that does direct damage nowadays. Scrolls also work.

 

Two White Spires: sometimes spells from items don't show up in the action bar when you equip it for the first time. I have that problem from time to time, too. When I equip Taluntain's Staff for 3 additional Fireballs sometimes I get no Fireball icon at all. Reequipping and reloading solves that issue for me.

 

This also happens sometimes with Spell Holding and Spell Chance items: they don't proc the spell when I equip them for the first time.

 

Also, sometimes scrolls don't release their spells. Animation is played and then nothing happens. Still a buggy game...

Edited June 1, 2016 by Boeroer