US Elections 2016

[Guard Dog]

What Bruce is thinking, while it does not stand up to factual scrutiny I'm afraid to say, is just another example of the political tribalism that is gripping the US. Like many of his supporters Bruce believes in Barack Obama. Like many he believes Obama is a good man who wants to do good things. And the too many people are willing to accept what they are told is good ends justified by bad means. Obama is "their" guy so it must be ok. It was the same during GWB's admin I am sorry to say. Too many people who favor the Republicans did not stand up to stop the Patriot Act. Indeed too many who should be a bit more libertarian in their thinking supported it. The left opposed it. Obama doubled down on it now the left likes it and the right hates it. If everyone had their heads on straight is would have been stopped.

 

Those on the left want Democrats in power. The don't necessarily like Obama using the IRS to destroy political opposition but if it gets more democrats in power the ends justify the means. But someday that weapon will be in someone's else's hand. Why does no one ever think of that?

 

Every overreach, every abuse, every right usurped and every freedom mitigated harms us all. That is evil. That so many go along with it because the temporarily like the result, or it's "their guy" doing it makes it tragic. 

 

To quote Daniel Webster: "I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe. Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing."

Edited February 13, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Barothmuk]

@GD, what's your prediction for the next 5-10 years?

[BruceVC]

What Bruce is thinking, while it does not stand up to factual scrutiny I'm afraid to say, is just another example of the political tribalism that is gripping the US. Like many of his supporters Bruce believes in Barack Obama. Like many he believes Obama is a good man who wants to do good things. And the too many people are willing to accept what they are told is good ends justified by bad means. Obama is "their" guy so it must be ok. It was the same during GWB's admin I am sorry to say. Too many people who favor the Republicans did not stand up to stop the Patriot Act. Indeed too many who should be a bit more libertarian in their thinking supported it. The left opposed it. Obama doubled down on it now the left likes it and the right hates it. If everyone had their heads on straight is would have been stopped.

 

Those on the left want Democrats in power. The don't necessarily like Obama using the IRS to destroy political opposition but if it gets more democrats in power the ends justify the means. But someday that weapon will be in someone's else's hand. Why does no one ever think of that?

 

Every overreach, every abuse, every right usurped and every freedom mitigated harms us all. That is evil. That so many go along with it because the temporarily like the result, or it's "their guy" doing it makes it tragic. 

 

To quote Daniel Webster: "I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe. Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing."

You right, I do believe he is a good guy who wants to do good things. And he has done many good things, I can list them if you want to discuss them?

 

But don't you think using the word evil is hyperbole.....its just seems extreme?

[BruceVC]

@GD, what's your prediction for the next 5-10 years?

Whats your prediction, I like the question. I'll give  my prediction after you 

[Guard Dog]

 

What Bruce is thinking, while it does not stand up to factual scrutiny I'm afraid to say, is just another example of the political tribalism that is gripping the US. Like many of his supporters Bruce believes in Barack Obama. Like many he believes Obama is a good man who wants to do good things. And the too many people are willing to accept what they are told is good ends justified by bad means. Obama is "their" guy so it must be ok. It was the same during GWB's admin I am sorry to say. Too many people who favor the Republicans did not stand up to stop the Patriot Act. Indeed too many who should be a bit more libertarian in their thinking supported it. The left opposed it. Obama doubled down on it now the left likes it and the right hates it. If everyone had their heads on straight is would have been stopped.

 

Those on the left want Democrats in power. The don't necessarily like Obama using the IRS to destroy political opposition but if it gets more democrats in power the ends justify the means. But someday that weapon will be in someone's else's hand. Why does no one ever think of that?

 

Every overreach, every abuse, every right usurped and every freedom mitigated harms us all. That is evil. That so many go along with it because the temporarily like the result, or it's "their guy" doing it makes it tragic. 

 

To quote Daniel Webster: "I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe. Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing."

You right, I do believe he is a good guy who wants to do good things. And he has done many good things, I can list them if you want to discuss them?

 

But don't you think using the word evil is hyperbole.....its just seems extreme?

 

What would you call using the IRS to shut down political organizations whose aims are opposed to his?

[Guard Dog]

@GD, what's your prediction for the next 5-10 years?

A continuation of what has been happening. A slow and steady erosion of individual liberty coupled with continued marginalization of state and local governments as more political power is consolidated at the federal level. Every step will be small but there will be many of them an all in the wrong direction.

[Guard Dog]

 

You right, I do believe he is a good guy who wants to do good things. And he has done many good things, I can list them if you want to discuss them?

 

 

But don't you think using the word evil is hyperbole.....its just seems extreme?

 

I disagree. Completely and emphatically. Not one this has that man accomplished that I would call completely good especially since so much of it was done by ignoring or subverting the law. I can't help but notice you never comment on the problems I bring up that the Obama administration has either created in whole or exacerbated. It doesn't matter. We are not going to come to any kind of agreement on this. There is no accomplishment you are going to mention that I won't find fault with and no over-reach or abuse that I could being up that you won't gloss over or ignore. You and I will find no common ground here.

[BruceVC]

 

 

What Bruce is thinking, while it does not stand up to factual scrutiny I'm afraid to say, is just another example of the political tribalism that is gripping the US. Like many of his supporters Bruce believes in Barack Obama. Like many he believes Obama is a good man who wants to do good things. And the too many people are willing to accept what they are told is good ends justified by bad means. Obama is "their" guy so it must be ok. It was the same during GWB's admin I am sorry to say. Too many people who favor the Republicans did not stand up to stop the Patriot Act. Indeed too many who should be a bit more libertarian in their thinking supported it. The left opposed it. Obama doubled down on it now the left likes it and the right hates it. If everyone had their heads on straight is would have been stopped.

 

Those on the left want Democrats in power. The don't necessarily like Obama using the IRS to destroy political opposition but if it gets more democrats in power the ends justify the means. But someday that weapon will be in someone's else's hand. Why does no one ever think of that?

 

Every overreach, every abuse, every right usurped and every freedom mitigated harms us all. That is evil. That so many go along with it because the temporarily like the result, or it's "their guy" doing it makes it tragic. 

 

To quote Daniel Webster: "I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe. Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing."

You right, I do believe he is a good guy who wants to do good things. And he has done many good things, I can list them if you want to discuss them?

 

But don't you think using the word evil is hyperbole.....its just seems extreme?

 

What would you call using the IRS to shut down political organizations whose aims are opposed to his?

 

 

 

 

 

You right, I do believe he is a good guy who wants to do good things. And he has done many good things, I can list them if you want to discuss them?

 

 

But don't you think using the word evil is hyperbole.....its just seems extreme?

 

I disagree. Completely and emphatically. Not one this has that man accomplished that I would call completely good especially since so much of it was done by ignoring or subverting the law. I can't help but notice you never comment on the problems I bring up that the Obama administration has either created in whole or exacerbated. It doesn't matter. We are not going to come to any kind of agreement on this. There is no accomplishment you are going to mention that I won't find fault with and no over-reach or abuse that I could being up that you won't gloss over or ignore. You and I will find no common ground here.

 

Okay this IRS issue, I have heard about it but its not something that is a constant discussion on the various international media networks I watch

 

So maybe just give me a summary...what political organisations have been shut down?

[Barothmuk]

Whats your prediction, I like the question. I'll give  my prediction after you 

Here's what I said 25 pages ago

 

Clinton will win, obnoxious liberals will praise this as a victory for progressivism, the right will be emboldened to support even stupider and more destructive economic policies, and the moderate to far left will continue to be completely irrelevant all the while being blamed for everything.

On the plus side we're due for another market crash and I don't see the left as it exists now surviving that.

[BruceVC]

 

Whats your prediction, I like the question. I'll give  my prediction after you 

Here's what I said 25 pages ago

 

Clinton will win, obnoxious liberals will praise this as a victory for progressivism, the right will be emboldened to support even stupider and more destructive economic policies, and the moderate to far left will continue to be completely irrelevant all the while being blamed for everything.

On the plus side we're due for another market crash and I don't see the left as it exists now surviving that.

 

What do you think would be the cause of another market crash? Do you mean like 2008....which wasn't a crash but  a serious slowdown and period of financial negative contagion

 

But people like Ben Bernanke prevented a real crash like in 1929 through difficult but prudent fiscal policies 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/27/news/economy/ben-bernanke-great-depression/index.html

[Barothmuk]

Do you mean like 2008....which wasn't a crash but  a serious slowdown and period of financial negative contagion

I want in on what they're paying you.

[BruceVC]

 

Do you mean like 2008....which wasn't a crash but  a serious slowdown and period of financial negative contagion

I want in on what they're paying you.

 

Do you honestly consider 2008 a crash of the worlds economy? It was bad I won't deny it but it wasnt  a crash...1929 was a crash

[Guard Dog]

None of that s--t would have happened if we hadn't forgotten the lessons of 1929. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Phil Gramm, Jim Leach, and Thomas Bliley played instrumental roles in removing the protections built into the banking system in 1932 to prevent the very thing that happened in 2008. It's the kind of thing you could expect when voters send a collection of idiots who don' know s--t all about economics to Washington to make economic decisions. Of course they are going to f--k it up. How could they not. 

[Barothmuk]

It was bad I won't deny it but it wasnt  a crash...1929 was a crash

What superior definition of "crash" are you using? In my experience 1929, 1987 and 2008 are all considered "crashes".

[BruceVC]

None of that s--t would have happened if we hadn't forgotten the lessons of 1929. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Phil Gramm, Jim Leach, and Thomas Bliley played instrumental roles in removing the protections built into the banking system in 1932 to prevent the very thing that happened in 2008. It's the kind of thing you could expect when voters send a collection of idiots who don' know s--t all about economics to Washington to make economic decisions. Of course they are going to f--k it up. How could they not. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/27/ben-bernanke-the-2008-financial-crisis-was-worse-than-the-great-depression/#31600c9877c0

 

But thats the interesting thing about 2008....Ben Bernanke was a student of the 1929 Great  Depression....and the Fed under his direction did the opposite what happened in 1929

 

He pumped large amounts of money into the financial sector to prevent the likes of AIG from going insolvent ..in 1929 the various banks were left to crash or survive and many went bankrupt

 

So they did learn lessons from 1929  

[BruceVC]

 

It was bad I won't deny it but it wasnt  a crash...1929 was a crash

What superior definition of "crash" are you using? In my experience 1929, 1987 and 2008 are all considered "crashes".

 

Sure this can be debated but this is a good link that answers your question about 1929 vs 1987 

 

http://www.worststockmarketcrashes.com/crash-of-1987/comparing-the-1929-crash-to-the-1987-crash/

[ShadySands]

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/facebook-primary/

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

[Video]

 

A bit more about how the deal impacts Europe, but serfdom to corporate behemoths is the future for America. Voting will not stop it because they already control the government and have for decades. Hopefully the market crash is big enough to completely destabilize the world economy so we don't live under this for more than a decade.

[BruceVC]

[Video]

 

A bit more about how the deal impacts Europe, but serfdom to corporate behemoths is the future for America. Voting will not stop it because they already control the government and have for decades. Hopefully the market crash is big enough to completely destabilize the world economy so we don't live under this for more than a decade.

KP can I ask you a question? I may not agree with it but I understand your view on the negative aspect of big business but do you like or respect Julian Assange ?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I find it ridiculous that Wikileaks is necessary but when **** like the TPP is going on with no transparency someone needs to ensure it comes to light. Make of that what you will.

[BruceVC]

I find it ridiculous that Wikileaks is necessary but when **** like the TPP is going on with no transparency someone needs to ensure it comes to light. Make of that what you will.

I'm not asking you that and I'm not trying to catch you ..I just want to know if you like and or respect him?

 

So let me get my point, in London he was fighting extradition to Sweden. He had hundreds of supporters and people who paid his legal fees...then he decided to skip bail and went to hide out in the Ecuadorian embassy. His argument was Sweden would send him to the USA where he would be tortured and suffer indescribable punishment

 

But he really did was

 

• Insult the entire Swedish legal system by suggesting they would pander to any American request. He also also called the Swedish legal system liars as the rape charges were just fabrications
• He insulted the entire USA legal system by telling everyone he would be tortured...can you imagine a reality under the Obama government where such a high profile person would be tortured?
• And he has made NO effort to actually address the rape charges.... 

So why would you respect him or take what he says seriously?

[Meshugger]

 

I find it ridiculous that Wikileaks is necessary but when **** like the TPP is going on with no transparency someone needs to ensure it comes to light. Make of that what you will.

I'm not asking you that and I'm not trying to catch you ..I just want to know if you like and or respect him?

 

So let me get my point, in London he was fighting extradition to Sweden. He had hundreds of supporters and people who paid his legal fees...then he decided to skip bail and went to hide out in the Ecuadorian embassy. His argument was Sweden would send him to the USA where he would be tortured and suffer indescribable punishment

 

But he really did was

 

• Insult the entire Swedish legal system by suggesting they would pander to any American request. He also also called the Swedish legal system liars as the rape charges were just fabrications
• He insulted the entire USA legal system by telling everyone he would be tortured...can you imagine a reality under the Obama government where such a high profile person would be tortured?
• And he has made NO effort to actually address the rape charges.... 

So why would you respect him or take what he says seriously?

 

 

Look here everyone, this is how it is done.

 

Person A raises a point about an issue, with a character as a source, relevant to the topic at hand, while also trying to highlight the stakes in motion on a greater scale. Person B ignores or downplays the issue and instead engages in moving the topic to the character providing the said information as a direct or indirect measure to discredit him. 

 

Wanna find out more? Interested in learning such techniques yourself? Well look no further, because you can find it here (https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm) and much more. What are you waiting for? Get out there, sonny! and make your masters proud!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm not asking you that and I'm not trying to catch you ..I just want to know if you like and or respect him?

Yes. Do you have a point to make about the lack of transparency on these trade agreements that impact almost everyone on this forums or are you just triggered by Assange?

[Elerond]

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/feb/13/supreme-court-justice-antonin-scalia-dead-at-79

 

Will this increase stakes on GOP side?

[Raithe]

 

Mark Cuban slams Presidential candidates for lack of ideas and tech illiteracy

 

With such comments as:

 

...

Bitching about everyone else is not leadership. It may play to the base, but it certainly doesn't reflect an ability to lead. This years [sic] candidates seem to want to prove to everyone that they conform to "party principles" rather than offering strategies and solutions and rallying consensus behind it. In fact, they argue with each other about who conforms to party standards more. IMHO, this is just crazy.

...

There has never been an investor in the history of investors that has believed a 10 year projection in a business plan. Yet for some reason we allow candidates to deliver tax , healthcare and other financial plans over a 10 year period.

...

How can it be a surprise that Millennials are excited about Bernie Sanders? Millennials EXPECT capitalism to reflect a socialist element. I don't think Bernie knew this going in. Either way, any candidate that expects to get millennial votes needs to understand that your father's capitalism is not ... how they understand the world. Soci0-Capitalism [sic] is who they are and what this country will be. Whether you like it or not.

...