Teach Me How to Gun My Fellow Pillarites

[RequiemArc]

Hey everyone, new to both the forums and the game (so no spoilers if you would). I'm really enjoying the game but running into an age-old problem of mine for rpg's. I'm a player who likes finding mechanical builds that fit narratives for characters I create and so wind up finding around in the character creator quite a bit only to find the class combination I'm come up with isn't quite what I'm looking for.

 

I recently learned about firearms in the game and am now rather fixated on building a gun user, so here I am looking for advice on classes, talents to take, etc. I'm not particularly keyed in on making The Most Min/Maxed Perfectest Gunner Ever, but I like efficiency and feel bad when I realize I've de-railed a character build horribly so I certainly don't mind someone who loves that sort of thing sharing their wisdom which I can tweak accordingly. I'm already planning on working with a few limitations such as Human for race. My main goal is to do the best I can within the narrative limits for the character.

 

I've already poked around the threads a bit and seen some discussion here and there but not much of it seems organized in a central place so I wouldn't mind this thread becoming a general catch-all for various gun combinations after some initial narrowing down of what I'm after.

What I know so far: I am looking for the character to be using firearms from the get-go (I know there are a couple to be found early on) but I'm also ok with having an Arbelast as well if needed (or a crossbow, I'd like to stay away from melee and traditional bows if I can as well as magic but I'm not entirely inflexible in that regard).

 

Blunderbusses in general are also not really what I'm aiming for either but again after some initial advice I have no issue with the thread becoming a general Post Your Gun Build Here. I know switching between multiple firearms seems useful as well.

 

I eagerly await your advice oh community! I appreciate the time you take out of your day to help this little scrub.

 

[Mocker22]

Hello and welcome to PoE and the forums.

 

I recommend looking at two builds in particular. The Dull Runner by Boeroer and the Darcozzi Commendatore by PrimeJunta. Prime's build focuses on using pistols as a paladin and buffing up your fellow party members. Boeroer's build uses Arquebuses as a paladin.

 

If you are open to at least some melee I would go for a Paladin that uses Arquebuses and greatswords. You can have 2-3 extremely high damage powerful shots to start the fight, taking out the most dangerous enemies and then switch to a greatsword to mop up. Both of these weapons are in the Soldier class and there are numerous powerful greatswords(can tell you more about gear if you don't mind the minor spoilers). Some of the Talents and skills I would recommend for this build would be, in no particular order, Weapon Focus Solider, Flames of Devotion, Intense Flames, Scion of Flame, Zealous Focus, Sacred Immolation, Penetrating Shot, Vulnerable Attack(only if you want the added melee capabilities), Lay on Hands and whatever other nice paladin skills you like the looks of. Sworn Enemy can be good for those opening shots. I would also use an Island Aumaua and take Quick Switch and possibly even Arms Bearer if you wanted to be able to have 3 guns to shoot before switching to melee. Any paladin order you pick would be fine but I think Bleakwalker or Goldpact have talents that would enhance the power shots the most. Pump Might, Intel, and Perception. Con and Resolve can be dropped a lot if you don't want to be able to tank/melee much at all, but for versatility I would probably keep them at at least 8. With this build your focusing a few powerful hits, so dex doesn't need to be pumped to high and you really don't have the points for it anyways.

 

If you'd like I wouldn't mind posting a more in-depth build as I've been planning on doing a run through with this type of character soon.

[evilcat]

A couple of tips:

Race:

Wood Elf - have so much bonuses to ranged it is not fair.

Island Aumaua - if you go for one this juggler gunner, firing switching to another gun, repeat 3 times.

Boreal Dwarf - his natural enemy is sometimes useful

 

Human - is in no way beneficial, since race trait is weak and it will not trigger in an reliable way for ranged.

 

Class:

Cipher - you only shoot  half time, and a lot of action is spell casting. But it is one of most fun classes.

Rogue - sneak attack works at range as well as special attacks,

Ranger - ability Swift Aim makes gunning better. Also Wounding shot works great with heavy hitter. (the heavier the better)

 

Note: with any class look for abilities "one powerful hit with bonus dmg" since reload weapons have higher base, and rifle have greatest. So we can use that for Ranger's Wounding Shot or Paladins Flames of Devotion.

Secondary Weapon:  Blunderburst for low DR targets.

 

Important Talents:

- Weapon Focus Ruffian/Soldier

- Gunner

- Penetrating Shot - very important since thid DR 15 enemies are pain

- Marksman

 

- Arms Bearer - if you want to weapon juggle.

 

Party tips:

- Durance could be fellow Gunner with Margana blessing and rifle, give him Galant Focus for extra +4 Acc.

 

Sample Ranger

Ranger imho is best, since it has shooting written in the name. Also swift aim, wounding shot and staler link are hard to beat in gunning department.

 

Race: Wood Elf Deadfire Archipelago

Stats: Dex 20 Perception 19 Might 18 Int 10  Con 8 Res 3

Pet: Wolf (dps pet) Anitope/Bear (defensive pet)

Abilities

1. Wounding Shot !

3. Swift Aim !

5. Stalker Link !

7. Driving Flight

9. Marked Prey

11. Stunning Shots !

13. Predator Sense

Talents:

2. Resilent Companion !

4. Weapon Focus Ruffian !

6. Penetrating Shots !

8. Swift and Steady

10. Visious Companion

12. Merciless Companion

14. Gunner

! - Important

 

Early Weapon: Disappointer and Forgivness come very early.

Feel Free to change anything you dont like. It is your character.

Edited January 3, 2016 by evilcat

[RequiemArc]

Hello and welcome to PoE and the forums.

 

I recommend looking at two builds in particular. The Dull Runner by Boeroer and the Darcozzi Commendatore by PrimeJunta. Prime's build focuses on using pistols as a paladin and buffing up your fellow party members. Boeroer's build uses Arquebuses as a paladin.

 

If you'd like I wouldn't mind posting a more in-depth build as I've been planning on doing a run through with this type of character soon.

Thanks for the quick replies guys, took a look at both the builds and your suggestions. After even more reading around I'm finding a lot on making paladin gunner's work but not too much on ranger. I've got this BleakWalker Paladin in mind and this fits right in... As for the stat spread I like having decent int (purely from a roleplay perspective) So I'll keep that and focus Might and Perception I guess with decent Dex. He won't be too tanky, so I'll play around and see what I like.

 

I'm definitely interested in seeing a full build so go right ahead and post away. If this character works out I might try posting some builds of my own when I get around to higher difficulty levels (Yeah, I'm that scrub, maybe one day I'll become a real boy and go Hard or PotD).

[Boeroer]

I have three class recommendations for a gun based character:

 

- rogue

His damage per shot will be awesome since his dmg mods are the best in the game. If you reach level 11 and take deathblows it will be jawdropping. Overkilling might be an issue then. He needs not much micromanagement if you stick to one gun and take the Gunner talent. There are two very good pistols in the game that totally fit a rogue. If you want to invest some micromanagement I also would like to recommend Quick Switch. That way you can fire some shots at the exact time you desperately need a foe to die quickly. The rogue also has Deep Wounds which compensates a bit for the low firing rate: with high migh and intellect it can do like 15 raw damage over 5 seconds if you hit. This damage also ticks while you reload and you can't stack it. It's like a flat +15 raw dmg bonus on top of your shots. It also stacks with Runner's Wounding Shot. One of the few builds that can make good use of Backstabs also: you can open the fight by sneaking to a foe and fire a wounding shot. This will trigger Backstab plus Sneak Attack for a total damage of 330%. If you take Shadowing Beyond you can even use this to combine Deathblows, Backstab, Sneak Attack and Wounding Shot for a total damage of 430%. A hit from a pistol shot with 30 base damage will deal about 130 damage - and that's not even a crit. So long story short: damage per shot can be very, very high. Also the rogue class leaves a lot of room for your personal backstory. Anybody can be a rogue: merchants, soldiers, mercenaries and so on.

 

- cipher

His damage modifiers are great and a shot with a gun will give you lots of focus. The problem of the long reloading time can be overcome by quick switching if you need more focus quickly. Since a cipher needs more micromanagement anyway (as all casters do) quick switch will not add a lot of work to this char. Mainly you will cast your spells and if you run out of focus you switch to a loaded weapon and fire at the foe with the weakest armor and/or defenses to gain max focus. Blunderbusses are perfect because they work perfectly well with a certain drug that gives +4 focus per hit - and blunderbusses hit 6 times per shot. Plus: the cipher has a spell to reduce DR. That's good because blunderbusses suck at hurting high DR foes. But if you don't like blunderbusses the pistols I mentioned above will also be good for him.

 

- ranger

Rangers have the best ability for guns: Swift Aim. It reduces reloading time by 50%. If you take the Gunner talent that's another 20%. He will be the fastest gun shooter you can build. He lacks the huge dmg mods that cipher or rogue can get, but he has some nice talents that make up for this. Driving Flight let your bullets pierce through the initial target and hit another one standing behind. So you get two hits from one shot. Wounding Shots - like mentioned before - are best with high dmg weapons, namely guns. Stunning Shots are good. You can't stunlock enemies with it like you can with a bow, but it's still useful. And you will have an animal companion that can do A TON of damage if you give it the right abilities and talents - and it can stop foes that try to reach you. I wouldn't use Quick Switch on this ranger because the micromanagement will be more on the pet and less on you.

I would use arquebuses with this guy.

 

The flexibility of the three is cipher>ranger>rogue. Ciphers have spells - so you can do a lot of different stuff with them besides shooting. Rangers are two chars in one and therefore they can do things that others cannot - like helping out a friend with the pet while shooting another foe. Rogues are for killing single targets only - but they are best at it.

 

Other classes also work - paladins and fighters for example - also priests. But to be honest it's either a bit of waste to not use their advantages in melee or their good defenses at all (fighter, paladin) - or you will be casting a lot and don't fire a lot of shots anyway (priest). That said: there are always special builds that will prove me wrong. Like the Darcozzi Commendatore for example. He uses a special pistol only and is a great supporter with it.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Boeroer

[PrimeJunta]

^

Excellent run-down, as usual.

 

One thing that I think is worth mentioning is the choice of weapon and weapon focus. It's basically between Ruffian (pistol, blunderbuss) and Soldier (arquebus). Pros and cons:

 

Arquebus pros:

• Better range
• Better damage per projectile (i.e. better against high-armour targets)
• Available early

Arquebus cons:

• Not many unique ones in the game (the best you can get is something you enchanting yourself, which is still pretty good)
• Not as much absolute damage potential as the blunderbuss

 

Ruffian pros:

• Lots of unique weapons with special capabilities, making for fun builds
• Blunderbusses? Blunderbusses!
• There is a pistol available extremely early, but it is terrible unless you figure out how to 'repair' it using herbs, body parts, and small rocks

Ruffian cons:

• Pistols are kind of meh unless you're going for a specialist build
• Blunderbusses only available mid-game

 

I'd go with Ruffian as the default choice anyway.

 

As to classes, there's one more thing to consider (mild spoiler follows):

 

 

 

There's a really good weapon in the game which can only be used by a cipher or ranger, and it isn't a firearm. I.e. if/when you find it, it might make you feel bad about your gunner build if it isn't a rogue. If that happens, I would highly recommend you stick to your guns and give it to another ranger or cipher in the party.

 

 

 

I like guns in Pillars. The sound is especially satisfying.

Edited January 3, 2016 by PrimeJunta

[SimpleEnigma]

From one character creation addict to another, happy rerolls. Each time I load a save I am assaulted by the embarrassingly large number of characters I've made and I haven't even completed Act I yet. 

[Kaylon]

Keep in mind that guns are the slowest weapons in the game and their best use is as openers at the beginning of the fight. If you want to use them during all the fight then the best is the (elf) ranger because he's the only class who can reduce their reloading times enough to shoot at acceptable speeds.

 

If you want a big fat opener at the start of the fight then paladins are the best. I recommend the goldpact paladins because of the combo:

Flames of Devotion + Intense Flames + Enduring Flames + Scion of Flame + Apprentice Sneak Attack (and later you can add Sacred Immolation to the party). It does the most damage on hit of any class (rogue included) and with very high accuracy.

 

PS. If you want the best damage in the game you'll be however forced to use the arbalests - the only heavy hitter that comes with the superb enchantment (because you don't want to spend 2 of the 3 ingredients you'll find in the game on a weapon that you use once per encounter  ) . 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Kaylon

[Boeroer]

The paladin is really great for Alpha Strikes and his damage with FoD and stuff is huge.

 

But if you consider all the rogues passive and active dmg mods, his damage on hit will be higher than the paladin's. Not only has he Sneak Attack and Deathblows, but he can add another 20% or 30% ( Sap) from one of his special attacks plus Deep Wounds. This all stacks with the 80% from Runner's Wounding Shot. He even could add Backstab to this as I said above, but that's very situational. If the circumstances are right, his damage per hit will be higher than the paladin's, even with Enduring Flames and the like.

 

The rogue has to cause two afflictions before it gets that high. The paladin can just shoot and that's it (leaving Apprentice's Sneak Attack aside for now). That's a plus. And not only his damage is very high, but also his ACC with these shots because of the +20 bonus. But he only has two of these high damage shots per encounter - three if he manages to shoot from stealth before encounter officially starts. The rogue can shoot a limitless amount of high damage attacks as long as the target is debuffed (but only one Runner's Wounding Shot ).

 

Another thing is that you need quite a number of abilities and talents for the paladin to get high damage per shot. While a rogue "is born" with Sneak Attack and only has to take one ability (Deathblows, plus one talent if he wants to use Runner's Wounding Shot) to make his damage go up significantly, a paladin has to buy one ability (FoD) and 3 talents (Intense Flames, Enduring Flames/Remember Rhakan Field and Apprentice's Sneak Attack).

 

Of course the paladin has many other great features that make him good that are not part of his shooting. 

I think we agree that the paladin is a great class.

 

Why I don't recommend a paladin is because the OP wanted to only use guns and doesn't want to go into melee fight. Although I love paladins with guns as openers (that's what my aforementioned build is all about ) I think that it's not the right class for this requirements - except some special builds like I said. 

[SimpleEnigma]

If you end up going ranger I would check out the nerdcommando steam guide specifically the Great White Hunter build. His builds tend to be min maxy but at the very least his talent discussions are interesting and he goes into pretty deep detail on what he considers the best talents for a gun focused ranger.

[RequiemArc]

Wow, thanks guys, I really appreciate the overwhelming response. This has given me a lot to chew on in regards to both Paladin and Ranger but, as my playthrough this time (being my first) is more focused on enjoying the story with a particular character I'm pretty sure I'm going Paladin (Though thank you Simple for that link, some of those builds are pretty cool). With that settled though what do you guys think from there? I'm planning on maining Arquebus's and pistols with the good ol' sword and board. For roleplay purposes I've warmed to it. I understand its a little hard to do guns with a character like this but I'm alright with that.

 

What I'm hearing so far is drop resolve and con, and grab the flame talents in paladin along with a Soldier focus? Sound about right? I've dug around and discovered a pistol you can grab early on and get rid of its debuff as soon as you can enchant in order to make it usable. What about Paladin spells? Again, I'm hamstringing myself by wanting ok int (clearly I want too much out of this character XD) but I cant help it. It's a thing of mine to make a character then try to make them work within those limitations.

[Boeroer]

Paladin is good in combination with guns and sword & board. You just have to watch out for your Weapon Focus choice. Weapon Focus gives tou more accuracy. Accuracy is an important thing in PoE's combat. Arquebus and pistol are not in the same group.

That's ok if you don't want to take a Weapon Focus anyway. Since your shots with Flames of Devotion get a +20 accuracy bonus it's OK to spare a talent point and don't take a weapon focus.

Dropping resolve and constitution is not advised if you want to take part in melee fights. That's only OK if you stay away from melee combat.

 

edit: Also, if you want to play a paladin for rp reasons, I wouldn't drop resolve because it opens up a lot of special dialogue options if it's high. Only the main character's stats will be taken into account for dialogue options by the way.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Boeroer

[RequiemArc]

Oh dear, dont really drop resolve or con, This makes things difficult. Then again since I have the luxury of not playing on Hard or PoTD I guess that can work.

18 Might

8 Con

18 Dex

14 Per

8 Int

12 Res (plus culture)

 

is what it looks like if I try to do that. Hmm. Clearly something's got to give and I dont want it to be int. Looking back on Mocker's recommendations if I'm alright for only going for an opening shot or two (and since this is Paladin thats a good way to work it) I can sacrifice some Dex. If drop it to 10 I can raise Int and Res to acceptable levels though I know stats dont make much difference in this game unless there's a large difference. Still that's what I get for working within these limitations I'm placing on myself. So then I'd be looking at;

 

18 Might

8 Con

10 Dex

14 Per

12 Int

16 Res (plus culture) 

 

...But that seems like a low Per for a gun user so maybe swap it and Res? This is what I get for going Paladin. Still, finding ways to make this work is the fun of it for me

[Boeroer]

Remember that you get +20 ACC for the FoD shots. I'd say your PER is sufficient.

[RequiemArc]

Ah, thanks for the reminder. Alright I think I might just stick with that then and see where it carries me. Thanks once again everyone, I'm going to have a lot of fun with this character and thanks to tons of suggestions a good spread of abilities to look at as I level. If anyone discover's any other builds making use of firearms they enjoy even if they aren't the most optimized I'd love to see them here.

[Mocker22]

Since it sounds like you are leaning towards Paladin here is a simple build that might work well for you.

 

 

Paladin - Bleakwalker

Island Aumaua

 

M - 18

C - 10

D - 10

P - 14

I - 18

R - 8

 

Remember that Faith and Conviction will help your defenses a ton. I simply cannot go lower on might or int for a paladin designed around hard hits. 14 Perc should be more than enough between FoD accuracy and all the other buffs you can get to ACC from your own auras, weapon enchantments, and Priest buffs. I don't really like low dex chars but since this guy is designed around hard-hitting, slower attacks I think its fine. I tend to either go with 10ish dex, or really pump it to 16+. Lots of personal preference in stats though.

 

* = personal preferences

 

Talents

Weapon Focus Soldier

Intense Flames

Remember Rahkan Field

Scion of Flame

Two-Handed Style* (helps melee dmg)

Quick Switch* (faster open blasts)

Apprentice Sneak Attack* (nice dmg add)

Penetrating Shot* (make those two shots hurt more, although imho if your already hitting for 100, whats another 5)

 

Abilities

I feel like paladins are a lot about personal preference. I'd say Flames of Devotion and Sacred Immolation are the only must haves. Probably start with Zealous Focus at level 3 and change it later in the game if you want to respec once you can get a lot more ACC buffs. I also never have a pally without Lay on Hands, but that's me. You need to decide what you want to be able to do for your teammates. Make their attacks faster/more accurate, help them stay alive or revive them, make yourself beefier? That choice will tell you what other abilities to take. I think coordinated attacks would be nice for this guy, so that when he switches to melee he is buffing other team mates.

 

Some general tactical advice. You can probably one shot enemy casters(or get close). Debuff very tough single enemies before you use up your gun shots(want to make em count).

 

[RequiemArc]

Thanks all, I'm up and running and actually just enchanted the Disappointer with Accuracy I. Although something seems off, I keep hearing that if you enchant it the original enchantment which makes it worse is supposed to be replaced and it effectively becomes a normal weapon. This is not happening however, both enchantments are simply present. Is this a patch or am I screwing up somewhere?

 

Edit: I just realized this is probably a topic to take elsewhere, but I don't know what place to bring it up in. I'd report it as a bug but I figure this might be exactly what is intended with a recent patch.

Edited January 7, 2016 by RequiemArc

[Blades of Vanatar]

Thanks all, I'm up and running and actually just enchanted the Disappointer with Accuracy I. Although something seems off, I keep hearing that if you enchant it the original enchantment which makes it worse is supposed to be replaced and it effectively becomes a normal weapon. This is not happening however, both enchantments are simply present. Is this a patch or am I screwing up somewhere?

 

Edit: I just realized this is probably a topic to take elsewhere, but I don't know what place to bring it up in. I'd report it as a bug but I figure this might be exactly what is intended with a recent patch.

That did NOT happen to me but it has been a few patches since I tried this. Maybe try lashing it first?

[Boeroer]

I just did a quick test (2.03) and it still works like it used to.

 

Accurate 1:

 

Exceptional:

 

What I did see is that "Terrible" is not listed as enchantment anymore if you look at the weapon in the enchantment UI. But it still got "overriden".

Edited January 7, 2016 by Boeroer

[Wolken3156]

That said: there are always special builds that will prove me wrong. Like the Darcozzi Commendatore for example. He uses a special pistol only and is a great supporter with it.

Guns do provide a measure of utility when you consider the ones that have special effects on-hit. The Pliambo per Casitàs and Scon Mica's Roar both lower defenses on hit, making them a fantastic weapon to use in an opener. A Fighter could for example,fire a shot in the first second of battle against a dangerous target and then quick switch to their weapon of choice and follow it up with a Knock Down, which will have an increased chance of hitting and critting.

 

Ruffian cons:

• Pistols are kind of meh unless you're going for a specialist build
• Blunderbusses only available mid-game

You should also add that Pistols and Blunderbusses have noticeably smaller ranges than the other ranged weapons. This makes them difficult to use against targets are considerable distance away from the gunner.

[RequiemArc]

Thanks all for the help, good to know enchanting it isn't useless. enjoying this guy thus far and I'm already finding myself planning the next build...