Amplified wave. Am I missing something here?

[brindle88]

So you start the game, create your character (characters) or recruit companions then go about your thing, raping looting and pillaging the vast and wonderful pillars of eternity world that obsidian so kindly created for us people with too much time on our hands to play with.

 

You will encounter many twists and turns on your journey involving the plot and game combat and then just when you where least expecting it something unbelievable happens......................when your cipher reaches a certain level he is no longer mortal but now a god.

 

I am referring to the insane god like power, and perhaps the only godlike power in the game, that gives you the ability to change your destiny. This power gives you the ability to make insanely difficult battles easy, to protect your entire party from being wounded and shall give you the raw awesome power of being able to dominate and bring your enemies to there knees.

 

This awesome power I am referring to is : amplified wave.

 

I have watched obsidian balance, nerf and change this game on so many aspects. How on earth this ability has managed to survive I have no idea. It is far and away the most overpowered ability I have come across. More powerful then even all the now obsolete synergies and spells that have been taken away from us with patches or that have been nerfed.

 

Am I missing something here?

[Boeroer]

With the introduction of immunities a lot of enemies are now immune to prone.

 

But basically you are right. I don't know why the spell has such a big radius. That's the thing that makes it so good.

[Infinitron]

It's a high level spell and once you've cast it once it'll take a while before you get to do so again. People have tended to focus on lower-level abilities that are overpowered.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Infinitron

[brindle88]

It's a high level spell and once you've cast it once it'll take a while before you get to do so again. People have tended to focus on lower-level abilities that are overpowered.

I made serious use of it on POTD, I let it rip in just about every fight.

 

Even though ciphers gain need to gain focus they can make better use of spells then wizards as they don't need to rest.

 

You should be able to gain enough focus from one shot of an highly enchanted arquebus to set it off. Trick is to aim for low dr targets eg fodder.

 

Fire arquebus, amplified wave, arquebus, wave = you win

 

Oh and then you get to do it again the next fight

[Boeroer]

On higher levels focus generation against mobs is not a problem. With an exceptional warbow and The Unconquerable amulet you also get enough focus to cast Amp. Wave after two shots. AS brindle88 said: you just have to pick the weakest targets. Or take quickswitching blunderbusses + cipher drug.

[brindle88]

On higher levels focus generation against mobs is not a problem. With an exceptional warbow and The Unconquerable amulet you also get enough focus to cast Amp. Wave after two shots. AS brindle88 said: you just have to pick the weakest targets. Or take quickswitching blunderbusses + cipher drug.

I'm not a big fan of blunders. I found them useful at the start of the game but as the game progressed (on POTD) just about every enemy I encountered had a minimum dr of 12.

 

Blunders become obsolete half way through the game, and to make them half viable you need to waste talent points on abilities like penetrating shot and even after taking penetrating shot and using lead splitter still no where as good as an enchanted arquebus.

 

Put a suit of plate armour on one of your characters and fire leadsplitter at it, will do nothing.

[Boeroer]

THat's why I said blunderbuss + cipher drug (Carow Golan). You get +4 focus per hit. Blunderbuss hits 6 times - that's 24 focus per shot on top of your normal focus that you get from soul whip's damage. Even against high DR foes you will receive 30 focus minimum per shot. With quick switch and three weapon slots you can get over 100 focus in a few seconds against high DR foes. Against low DR foes you don't need Carow Golan with a blunderbuss. The weapon tiself has 4 DR bypass, then use Penetrating Shot (+5 DR bypass), Ryona's Vembraces (+3) and use Lead Spitter for one of the shots (+3). So you will end up at 12 or 15 DR bypass. So, for everything with more than 1 DR you can use Carow Golan, for everything else don't. Blunderbusses are great for ciphers if you use them that way.  

[Elerond]

Cipher nerfs have nerfed amplified wave quite lot. There was time when cipher was able to throw it three times in beginning of battle without charging their focus. Which meant that you didn't need anything else than spam it to win all the trash battles. Still it is very powerful spell, but it is most useful against trash mobs and against meaningful opponents it is usually better to use something else.

[Kilburn]

welcome to pillars spells. they either break the game or do practically nothing.

[Agone]

This spell is actually rather weak:

- the damage is low for a 6 level spell

- It target fortitude (aka won't land on anything worth damaging on potd)

- you need to fire 2-4 shots in between each spell to recover the focus (and need to spend talent so that those shots hit). In the meantime all other casters would have casted 3-4 spells (and thus would have had a way bigger impact on the battle)

- it is centered on one of your ally so can't maximize is AOE 

- It is a cipher spell and ciphers are terrible in difficult battle (i.e. terrible when they are needed). It is OK to clear trash, except for the fact that you don't need any spell to clear trash...

Edited December 2, 2015 by Agone

[brindle88]

This spell is actually rather weak:

- the damage is low for a 6 level spell

- It target fortitude (aka won't land on anything worth damaging on potd)

- you need to fire 2-4 shots in between each spell to recover the focus (and need to spend talent so that those shots hit). In the meantime all other casters would have casted 3-4 spells (and thus would have had a way bigger impact on the battle)

- it is centered on one of your ally so can't maximize is AOE 

- It is a cipher spell and ciphers are terrible in difficult battle (i.e. terrible when they are needed). It is OK to clear trash, except for the fact that you don't need any spell to clear trash...

What? What? What? What? And what?

 

You have just dribbled 5 different bullet points that are all complete lies.

 

The damage is huge for 6th level spell, you can hit the nearly the entire screen with its radius so if you hit 20 people for 30 damage that's 600 damage dealt

 

Targets fortitude rather then deflection and that's bad? Umm ok......

 

Needs four shots to recover focus? Dude are you playing the same game as us? Read above posts from me and other members, will need one shot with arquebus.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Tigranes
Being nasty online is #1 reason for incontinence, everyone! Don't do it!

[Teioh_White]

Amplified wave is pretty broken, and one of the cheese powers that makes the class OP. (Seriously, take/alter a few powers, and the class would be downright balanced and interesting).

 

It's really just the massive AoE size of it, that both lets the player CC mobs out of the range of the mobs CC, as well as CC the entire field at the same time. At least in WM, some of the fights have the mobs in spread out enough groups a single Vancian can't lock down the entire room with no shots fired the enemy.

 

Cipher, before I tossed Wave into the too cheesy to use pile, would make every fight go the exact same way. Auto-pause on combat, Wave a team mate, Mica Roar an enemy, Lead split an enemy, Wave, reload, wave. At this point, the fights almost always either, or down to few enough mobs that the stun lock weapons of the frontline will keep them underwraps. And if not? Well, the Cipher just moves from 100% CC up time to like 75%.

 

Just another crazy OP thing I'm surprised made it this far. A severe reduction in AoE size is needed, at the least.

[brindle88]

Amplified wave is pretty broken, and one of the cheese powers that makes the class OP. (Seriously, take/alter a few powers, and the class would be downright balanced and interesting).

 

It's really just the massive AoE size of it, that both lets the player CC mobs out of the range of the mobs CC, as well as CC the entire field at the same time. At least in WM, some of the fights have the mobs in spread out enough groups a single Vancian can't lock down the entire room with no shots fired the enemy.

 

Cipher, before I tossed Wave into the too cheesy to use pile, would make every fight go the exact same way. Auto-pause on combat, Wave a team mate, Mica Roar an enemy, Lead split an enemy, Wave, reload, wave. At this point, the fights almost always either, or down to few enough mobs that the stun lock weapons of the frontline will keep them underwraps. And if not? Well, the Cipher just moves from 100% CC up time to like 75%.

 

Just another crazy OP thing I'm surprised made it this far. A severe reduction in AoE size is needed, at the least.

Yeah I agree 100% with your post. There is amplified wave and that chain confusion spell that ciphers have wreak havok. Echo and mind lance are ok and fun to use. These spells and there low level mind blades ( the chain blade spell) where pretty much the only spells I ever used for a cipher.

 

I used the pretty much the same tactics as you. I fired off a shot straight away with an arquebus with the cipher, positioned my tanks and waited for all the enemies to congregate around them then spammed wave close to those tanks. You will be able to do this on about 90% of the fights it's is only on boss type fights or when you encounter rare enemies where you have to change your tactics.

 

Imagine giving this kind of power to your character in baldurs gate 2. No seriously think about that, imagine if your fighter/ mage in bg2 could simply fire off a massive wave that knocked everything down and damaged them at the same time. You are like a god where you click your fingers and everything dies.

 

AWESOME! Lol

[Abbzug]

I would say that targeting fortitude over deflection is a downside. Just about every mob will have higher fortitude than deflection, and abilities which lower fortitude are a lot rarer than ones that lower deflection.

 

But it's still an overpowered spell I suppose. I'm just not a huge fan of ciphers. Seems like their spellbook is very feast or famine, so yah it does get very repetitive.

[brindle88]

I would say that targeting fortitude over deflection is a downside. Just about every mob will have higher fortitude than deflection, and abilities which lower fortitude are a lot rarer than ones that lower deflection.

 

But it's still an overpowered spell I suppose. I'm just not a huge fan of ciphers. Seems like their spellbook is very feast or famine, so yah it does get very repetitive.

Yeah I suppose that's one way of looking at it and that kind of makes up for why wave is so good. Wizards have a whole range of good spells where as ciphers have about 5 haha, so it makes sense for them to have the wave as they don't have much else to choose from.

[Boeroer]

Targeting fortitude is great. There are two afflictions that, when combined, drop fortitude by over 40 points every encounter. That's weakened and sickened. Sickened the cipher can do himself with Secret Horrors - and if you have a priest with Painful Interdiction you have a very huge weakened aoe every encounter. Cast PI, then SH - and then your Amplified Wave will crit like there's no tomorrow. There is no cheaper way to debuff a defense in such a big aoe with such "cheap" powers.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Actually, the ability to stack Sickened and Weakened is the key here. That changed my initial thinking on how fort is the toughest save to beat. It is not simply that they can be used together, it is because that the Weakened didn't suppress Sickened like what Stunned will do to Prone. Because of that I was more open to other options I thought was crappy before. Things like Brute Force for example. Ciphers are good at lowering Fort as their abilities that do so target Will.

 

For Amplified Wave, I dont really use as it seems uninteresting. OP perhaps but uninteresting. My fav spell pattern is Psychovampiric Shield > Fractured Volition > Body Attunement. Lower Will (and Deflection) so the FV hits reliably to Lower Fort and to cause BA to hit reliably, and thirdly to Lower DR through BA to rack in the dmg. Sickened is handled by the Barb. Also doesn't hurt if the Cipher gets buffed in the process

Edited December 3, 2015 by mosspit

[anameforobsidian]

Cipher, before I tossed Wave into the too cheesy to use pile, would make every fight go the exact same way. Auto-pause on combat, Wave a team mate, Mica Roar an enemy, Lead split an enemy, Wave, reload, wave. At this point, the fights almost always either, or down to few enough mobs that the stun lock weapons of the frontline will keep them underwraps. And if not? Well, the Cipher just moves from 100% CC up time to like 75%.

 

Wait, you would use a cipher without charm or dominate?

[tedmann12]

What about ecto psychic echo?

 

I had to stop using it because it made the game on PoTD way too easy. I instantly melted every single enemy. I now dont use it anymore because it breaks the game.

[brindle88]

 

Cipher, before I tossed Wave into the too cheesy to use pile, would make every fight go the exact same way. Auto-pause on combat, Wave a team mate, Mica Roar an enemy, Lead split an enemy, Wave, reload, wave. At this point, the fights almost always either, or down to few enough mobs that the stun lock weapons of the frontline will keep them underwraps. And if not? Well, the Cipher just moves from 100% CC up time to like 75%.

 

 

Wait, you would use a cipher without charm or dominate?

I never needed to use them. Combat even on POTD is unbelievably easy. If you have 2 tanks and four casters armed with arquebus's you generally won't even need to cast any spells.

 

My typical party consisted of

 

Fighter

Fighter

Cipher - arquebus

Mage - arquebus

Priest - arquebus

Druid - arquebus

 

Combat was insanely easy. Casters shouldn't be able to use fire arms or bows like fighters and rangers do (like you can't in baldurs gate). 90% of fights you just position your tanks maybe cast 1 spell (wave) then peg everything off with you firearms, pathetic I reckon. Makes ranged classes like rangers completely pointless when a caster can do the same almost as good.

[Kilburn]

I never tried amplified wave but repulsing seal was rediculous.

 

So, do immunities bring these spells into line or are they still broken? (Im not playing POE at the moment)

[Kilburn]

 

 

Cipher, before I tossed Wave into the too cheesy to use pile, would make every fight go the exact same way. Auto-pause on combat, Wave a team mate, Mica Roar an enemy, Lead split an enemy, Wave, reload, wave. At this point, the fights almost always either, or down to few enough mobs that the stun lock weapons of the frontline will keep them underwraps. And if not? Well, the Cipher just moves from 100% CC up time to like 75%.

 

Wait, you would use a cipher without charm or dominate?

I never needed to use them. Combat even on POTD is unbelievably easy. If you have 2 tanks and four casters armed with arquebus's you generally won't even need to cast any spells.

 

My typical party consisted of

 

Fighter

Fighter

Cipher - arquebus

Mage - arquebus

Priest - arquebus

Druid - arquebus

 

Combat was insanely easy. Casters shouldn't be able to use fire arms or bows like fighters and rangers do (like you can't in baldurs gate). 90% of fights you just position your tanks maybe cast 1 spell (wave) then peg everything off with you firearms, pathetic I reckon. Makes ranged classes like rangers completely pointless when a caster can do the same almost as good.

 

 

 

The first 4 levels are beautiful in terms of difficulty on POTD. I didnt expect that at only level 7 the game would degrade into a mindless faceroll. If I knew that I would have strongly considered not buying it. But there is still time, maybe everything will be fixed.

[brindle88]

 

 

 

Cipher, before I tossed Wave into the too cheesy to use pile, would make every fight go the exact same way. Auto-pause on combat, Wave a team mate, Mica Roar an enemy, Lead split an enemy, Wave, reload, wave. At this point, the fights almost always either, or down to few enough mobs that the stun lock weapons of the frontline will keep them underwraps. And if not? Well, the Cipher just moves from 100% CC up time to like 75%.

 

 

Wait, you would use a cipher without charm or dominate?

I never needed to use them. Combat even on POTD is unbelievably easy. If you have 2 tanks and four casters armed with arquebus's you generally won't even need to cast any spells.

My typical party consisted of

Fighter

Fighter

Cipher - arquebus

Mage - arquebus

Priest - arquebus

Druid - arquebus

Combat was insanely easy. Casters shouldn't be able to use fire arms or bows like fighters and rangers do (like you can't in baldurs gate). 90% of fights you just position your tanks maybe cast 1 spell (wave) then peg everything off with you firearms, pathetic I reckon. Makes ranged classes like rangers completely pointless when a caster can do the same almost as good.

 

 

The first 4 levels are beautiful in terms of difficulty on POTD. I didnt expect that at only level 7 the game would degrade into a mindless faceroll. If I knew that I would have strongly considered not buying it. But there is still time, maybe everything will be fixed.

When you hit defiance bay the game Definately does as you put it spiral into a mindless faceroll. Not only that but in all the wrong other ways to. There are no unique items worth collecting or buying and most of the abilities selection upon level up are pointless. So not only are you beating the game hands down but you are beating it with boring items and abilities.

[Boeroer]

Man... as always, you're generalizing, exaggerating and trolling around while showing a somewhat arrogant attitude (I'm exaggerating here). Why is that? Didn't you tell us that you don't want to play this game any more some time ago? What happend? I mean what's the point? You will never accept any good argument or appreciate somebody else's opinion. It's just a frickin' computer game. Or do you enjoy to piss everybody off? I'm really curious. No, wait... when I come to think of it... I'm not.

[Boeroer]

Ach... never mind me being grumpy - I got a hangover from these damn cubra libres yesterday. Why do old friends have to visit me in the first place? Ouch...

Edited December 6, 2015 by Boeroer