White March Part 2 officially announced, coming January

[Sensuki]

No that list is very much correct; you just need to argue against it because your attempts to portray PoE as the "worst RTWP ever" suddenly falls apart. You are trying to define "RTWP" in such a narrow way that it serves your purpose. It's not hard to see through this type of ruse, it's quite common especially on gaming forums.

Most real-time games offer a pause function (including the game being paused when the menu screen is showing) to allow players to leave the game running while they're not at their computer or ALT-TABed as a convenience feature. This does not make them real-time with pause. If a game allows you to issue commands while paused, then it is RTWP.

 

From memory, Rollercoaster Tycoon does allow you to issue commands while paused, and thus it is RTWP but it has no combat, and I'm talking about RTWP combat here.

 

Games like AoE2 and Warcraft 3 and the like DO NOT HAVE RTWP combat, they have real-time combat, because you cannot issue commands while paused, in WC3 you can't even move your screen position.

 

If you want to religiously follow what some TV tropes list says about games, go ahead.

 

You show the same kind of dogma here. The fact that I have the gumption to judge this game on it's merit rather than blindly follow it seems to irk you considerably. You are essentially white knighting.

 

It's very common for a cheerleader to make these type of "follow around" claims on Forums. It's cute, but it blatantly ignores the fact that the troll (in this case, Sensuki), is posting the same thing everywhere all the time. So unless someone leaves the forum, if they respond to the troll then one of the troll's cheerleaders will be like, "why you following us around, bro?" lol

If anyone's trolling around here, it's you

Edited November 18, 2015 by Sensuki

[Zenbane]

The article states that WarCraft and Command & Conquer are RTS games that do not have a Pause function. You should read before commenting. You have a very poor grasp of RTWP games, and combat mechanics in general. I've read your responses and you offer little more than a parrot who sat through one too many Baldurs Gate playthroughs.

 

Claiming that I'm a "blind follower" is also a common retort amongst trolls. This is the part where I post links to places on this forum where I have expressed things I do not like about PoE, but you'll just find a way to red herring the heck out of a response. Your ultimate goal is to derail and spam your incessant ramblings.

 

I do like how your response to calling you out as a troll is too... call me a troll :-p

 

If this were the Sensuki.net forum then yes, I'd be a troll. Fortunately for the free world that is not the case.

[Sensuki]

The article states that WarCraft and Command & Conquer are RTS games that do not have a Pause function.

Press F10. Game pauses in single-player with the menu overlay.

 

You have a very poor grasp of RTWP games

 

 

 

 

I do like how your response to calling you out as a troll is too... call me a troll :-p

 

I actually talk about games, all I've ever seen you do is attack other posters.

[Zenbane]

My post history is publicly accessible so if me talking about people is all your eyes can see then that kinda tunnel vision further explains why your game suggestions continue to be ignored.

[Zoraptor]

 

Nah, 99% of the time I just ignore you, so the last thing I'm going to do is trawl through pages of you following Sensuki around from thread to thread or whatever. Much as 99% of the time if there's a game I don't like I ignore it rather than wandering in to (not so) randomly diss it.

Just thought people who weren't aware of your background and chip on shoulder with respect to the Codex/ VD etc needed to know where you were coming from.

 

It's very common for a cheerleader to make these type of "follow around" claims on Forums. It's cute, but it blatantly ignores the fact that the troll (in this case, Sensuki), is posting the same thing everywhere all the time. So unless someone leaves the forum, if they respond to the troll then one of the troll's cheerleaders will be like, "why you following us around, bro?" lol

 

 

Since I've been dragged into this; I think Sensuki's custom title on the codex ("Cuck") was well earned and perfectly appropriate because he's acted pretty much exactly like a jilted lover, right down to professing to be absolutely unconcerned and over it all yet unable to actually let it go. I actually agree far more with Gromnir on PoE than with Sensuki. I just have zero interest in reading the two of them 'troll'* each other.

 

*Not really trolling, Sensuki just hates PoE and Gromnir hates the codex. It happens, it's just boring to wade through.

[Gromnir]

 

if you say so.  regardless, you made many suggestions regarding issues such as ability points and hard counters and xp awards, no?  is a great many instances in which obsidian went a different direction, and even when the direction obsidian went were a relative minor change, you took... poorly.  and so we end up with the sensuki we got today.

The current attribute system has exactly the same layout as the one Matt and I proposed in October last year.

 

I don't recall making any specific suggestion to implement hard counters because I know that it would have been a futile effort.

 

I was against XP for traps and locks (I don't think there's anyone here that will disagree that they were only haphazardly implemented to shut the people up who were complaining about them on the forums) but that's not a big deal at all. How experience is payed out is pretty inconsequential to the things the player does in combat.

 

So I'm not exactly sure about what different direction you're referring to at least with those three examples.

 

is actual amusing how many factual corrections o' sensuki posts josh made over at the SA boards.

 

You've mentioned this a few times, but you don't list any specific examples (likely due to laziness). Most of the factual corrections were because Obsidian had changed the mechanics of how something worked.

 

 

the fact that obsidian changed the attribute system after release.  does not change your mewling before and after the change.  you shoulda' been happy 'bout the change and yet you were still complaining.  and we didn't mention trap or lock xp as your concern... you naughty boy.  

 

regardless, we  gave the links.  check any number o' josh response to sensuki... particular near release.  too lazy to bother looking?  

 

*snort*

 

and yeah, even codex saddled you with the cuck title after your little multi-fora meltdown and dirtbag antics regarding pj's review.  

 

belated grats on the well-earned handle.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps deleted material as this is gonna become another thread where sensuki plays the victim *chuckle* and white march 2 becomes a side topic.  guy gets double-secret probation at sa for chrissakes.  gotta be pretty over-the-top for that.  even so, is our fault for answering achilles' query. is on us.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Gromnir

[Zenbane]

Since I've been dragged into this; I think Sensuki's custom title on the codex ("Cuck") was well earned and perfectly appropriate because he's acted pretty much exactly like a jilted lover, right down to professing to be absolutely unconcerned and over it all yet unable to actually let it go. I actually agree far more with Gromnir on PoE than with Sensuki. I just have zero interest in reading the two of them 'troll'* each other.

 

*Not really trolling, Sensuki just hates PoE and Gromnir hates the codex. It happens, it's just boring to wade through.

 

 

I hear ya, and thanks for setting the context to that exchange (apologies for the accidental "cheerleader" reference lol)

 

I have my share of dislikes when it comes to PoE, for example:

 

1) The inconsistency with NPC content. In particular, the over-emphasis of Durance and his obsession with weak faith whores; in comparison to the short experiences with most of the other much more interesting and delightful characters.

 

2) The use of Immunities as a "fix" for combat variety

 

However, there is a difference between folks who still love and enjoy a product while actively discussing disagreements/improvements, vs someone who proudly proclaims that they abandoned the product months ago yet pursue a post count in the thousands with a heavy emphasis on negativity and borderline spam.

 

And now I shall digress,

 

Once upon a time an MMORPG named Dark Age of Camelot was released. I was one of many who proudly subscribed and jumped on a server the same week the game went live. However, I had the misfortune of believing the official Character creation page of DAOC, and decided to play a: Hibernian Void Eldritch. In the early days, DAOC had very little RPG content (terribly few, meaningless, and repetitive quests), where the primary goal was to hit level 50 to engage in 3-way PvP (or, Realm vs Realm) combat. Of course, this is during a time when it took 8 hours a day to go from level 25 to level 26, and the better part of a week (with 10 hour days) just to go from level 49 to 50.

 

After an Everquest-style obsession, I hit level 50 and took my bold Void Eld out to PvP. According to DAOC's description, the Void build is supposed to be the single most damaging magic line available for the Hibernian mage class. Come to find out... some Developer at Mythic decided to code the super duper damaging Void Bolts to work in PvP exactly the same way a damn Arrow works when shot with a Bow. Keep in mind that these Bolts never ever worked that way in PvE (when fighting Monsters I one-shot killed most everything). So there I am in PvP shooting hundreds of Bolts and reading combat logs, "Enemy blocks your bolt! Your bolt misses!"

 

Countless hours just to find out that a terrible line of code in the gaming software rendered my class completely useless. Needless to say, I spent a great deal of time on the forums complaining relentlessly, with screenshots and detailed rants... a virtual storm of pixelated dialogue so severe you'd think Sensuki was my offspring. However, even though I felt that my time (countless hours killing Ants and Pooka's just to hit max level) and money (DAOC had a $20 monthly fee) was downright "robbed' - at the end of the day I kept on playing, and kept on complaining, until one day everything was better. Bolts eventually worked like Bolts, the game had RPG content that was epic and memorable, new character classes and a 3-tier PvP zone (for low level, mid level, and high level) provided for a multi-year online experience that, in my opinion, is still unrivaled.

 

Case in point, I never once actually both left DAOC while still ranting on the forums. There were times that I did cancel my subscription, and for the sake of my own sanity I left the forums as well. There's nothing to be gained by keeping a gaping wound open, na' mean?

 

In hindsight, I can see that I was a dumbass for not checking the VN Boards when I was about level 25. Had I done that, I would have seen all the other Void Eld's screaming about the Bolt screwup, and I woulda saved myself another hundred hours of torment lol

 

/digression off

 

Looking at the environment of "Plains of Eternity" I just can't see any critical issues at all. It's a wonderfully made single player game - both in story, combat, and graphics - that allows players to try as many character builds as they want at virtually any moment in the campaign. I say "virtually" because in the early game you don't have enough coin to constantly hire new PC's; in the mid-to end game, however, the skies the limit!

 

Hell, in DAOC aside from paying $20 a month, about a year after release the Developers finally allowed you to "respec" your character. Of course, the catch to doing so... involved getting a power group together to find and kill a big ass dragon that "might" drop a Respec Stone that you "might" win in a loot roll.

 

But yeah... Story Mode, the potential to Rest Spam, and too much combat meta-gaming/micromanaging are gonna "sink" an epic single player RPG that sold over half a million copies (and growing).

 

[Sensuki]

My post history is publicly accessible so if me talking about people is all your eyes can see then that kinda tunnel vision further explains why your game suggestions continue to be ignored.

You don't even know what you're talking about, what suggestions exactly?

 

The fact that obsidian changed the attribute system after release.  does not change your mewling before and after the change.  you shoulda' been happy 'bout the change and yet you were still complaining.

Why? Because our theory was right? Big deal. Attributes are one of those set and forget things, they have little to no impact on the actions that players perform in combat. They were never really a big problem.

 

and we didn't mention trap or lock xp as your concern... you naughty boy.

No you didn't, you mentioned XP awards - what XP awards? The only time I have talked about XP rewards is after trap and lock XP was implemented and I said the implementation was poor. Otherwise I have not talked about experience at all. Either your memory betrays you or you are just making stuff up.

 

regardless, we  gave the links.  check any number o' josh response to sensuki... particular near release.  too lazy to bother looking?  

 

*snort*

Too lazy to provide a specific example.

 

and yeah, even codex saddled you with the cuck title after your little multi-fora meltdown and dirtbag antics regarding pj's review.  

 

belated grats on the well-earned handle.

It was well-earned, but not for the reason you think. I also didn't start any of those confrontations on the other forums, Shevek and others did, if someone starts slagging me on a forum I read that's only an invitation for me to reply to it.

 

guy gets double-secret probation at sa for chrissakes. gotta be pretty over-the-top for that.

Specific post: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3706905&pagenumber=552&perpage=40#post446918209

 

Doesn't look very over the top to me.

 

ps deleted material as this is gonna become another thread where sensuki plays the victim

I came here to discuss the topic. You and Zenbane did not.

 

It's a wonderfully made single player game - both in story, combat

If you have low standards, maybe.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Sensuki

[gogocactus]

 

 

Nah, 99% of the time I just ignore you, so the last thing I'm going to do is trawl through pages of you following Sensuki around from thread to thread or whatever. Much as 99% of the time if there's a game I don't like I ignore it rather than wandering in to (not so) randomly diss it.

Just thought people who weren't aware of your background and chip on shoulder with respect to the Codex/ VD etc needed to know where you were coming from.

It's very common for a cheerleader to make these type of "follow around" claims on Forums. It's cute, but it blatantly ignores the fact that the troll (in this case, Sensuki), is posting the same thing everywhere all the time. So unless someone leaves the forum, if they respond to the troll then one of the troll's cheerleaders will be like, "why you following us around, bro?" lol

Since I've been dragged into this; I think Sensuki's custom title on the codex ("Cuck") was well earned and perfectly appropriate because he's acted pretty much exactly like a jilted lover

What does the word cuck mean? I've been trying to look it up, but different dictionaries provide me with different definitions.

 

P.S.: @ Zenbane : Yay! Go DaoC : D.

Edited November 18, 2015 by gogocactus

[PrimeJunta]

Comes from "cuckold," which means a man whose wife has been unfaithful. It's considered shameful in cultures which consider women as property.

Edited November 18, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Zenbane]

"Too lazy to provide a specific example"

"It was well-earned, but not for the reason you think"

 

It's not about being lazy, it's about being smart. If a poster wastes time putting facts in your face, all ya do is fall in to denial mode. Proof, evidence, and logic are wasted on you since all you're really looking for is a reason to post your spam.

 

 

If you have low standards, maybe.

 

 

Since you have no standards, you aren't in a position to distinguish your apples from your paused combat grown oranges. My standards are as high as your reputation is low.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Zenbane

[Sensuki]

It's not about being lazy, it's about being smart. If a poster wastes time putting facts in your face, all ya do is fall in to denial mode. Proof, evidence, and logic are wasted on you since all you're really looking for is a reason to post your spam.

Every post I made in this thread prior to you and Gromnir coming in with your personal issues was on topic. For you spam seems to equal posts from a person who does not enjoy the game.

 

Since you have no standards (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Lol.

[rheingold]

DId I miss something in those first couple of days when Pillars was released? One day Sensuki was keen on the game the next he loathed it. It was rather sudden, too sudden... Makes me think that it is personal. Was he offered a job by Obs who reneged, or was he hoping for a job which never materialized and now he is upset with them. It goes way beyond normal though. There are plenty of things out there that disappoint me - games, books, movies, but you accept that and move on. Or not as the case may be

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It's very common for a cheerleader to make these type of "follow around" claims on Forums. It's cute, but it blatantly ignores the fact that the troll (in this case, Sensuki), is posting the same thing everywhere all the time. So unless someone leaves the forum, if they respond to the troll then one of the troll's cheerleaders will be like, "why you following us around, bro?" lol

Be good if you could stop your trolling.

[Sensuki]

DId I miss something in those first couple of days when Pillars was released? One day Sensuki was keen on the game the next he loathed it. It was rather sudden, too sudden... Makes me think that it is personal. Was he offered a job by Obs who reneged, or was he hoping for a job which never materialized and now he is upset with them. It goes way beyond normal though. There are plenty of things out there that disappoint me - games, books, movies, but you accept that and move on. Or not as the case may be

My opinion of the combat has always been that it needed work / wasn't right ever since the start of the beta. I raised my concerns about the combat and was told that my experience was based on a small level range [4-8] against underwhelming content. Unfortunately the problems that I had with the beta were only magnified in the full release.

 

I also thought that despite not really liking the combat, that since that it was an Obsidian game, that the story would at least be good as they have a reputation for good writing and I did really enjoy Knights of the Old Republic 2.

 

Unfortunately what we got was something closer to Neverwinter Nights 2 OC level of quality, featuring a copypaste 'trial event' from the same game, big issues with the plot, player motivation, player agency, a very weak antagonist and a severely disjointed thematic leap from Chapter 2 to 3, which basically feels like a different game altogether. This was more disappointing than the combat and the reason why I stopped playing.

 

(I *think* this is a result of the design by committee approach they took to coming up with the story and Eric Fenstermaker not being full time on the project for a significant period at the beginning. This problem will likely not re-occur for the sequel as if and when they do one, they'll have a much more focused effort from their two 'lead writers'.)

 

What you witnessed was me trying to do everything I could to promote the game, then after playing it, judging it by it's own merit and realizing that ... it's not very good, I didn't enjoy it and I'd spent a huge amount of effort to receive a negative return on investment as far as gameplay enjoyment went. It does not have anything to do with suggestions being ignored, or anything any of the developers said or did external to the game itself. Many of the devs were very cool to interact with during the beta (Nick Carver, Dimitri Berman & Roby Atadero in particular), it's super handy to have a Lead Designer that is open about mechanics and design decisions and willing to reply to questions, and I think that a lot of the technical people - Environment Artists, Character Artists and the like did a very good job.

 

There's nothing that I could have done or suggested that would have made me enjoy the full game. The problems all arise from the core design decisions and the content - of which, could not be influenced through the beta. I did learn a lot about game development and (vicariously) game design in the process, and for that I am very thankful and would not do anything differently.

 

For the record, I also don't really like how Wasteland 2 or Divinity Original Sin turned out, but they weren't my dream concept. This was. I did like some of the titles from smaller companies though - such as Expeditions Conquistador, The Banner Saga etc.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Sensuki

[Zenbane]

 

 

Every post I made in this thread prior to you and Gromnir coming in with your personal issues was on topic.

You call it on topic but all you're doing is saying the same 'ol thing repeatedly, "the game is bad, it's a sinking ship, combat is bad, nothing is fun."

 

You never actually prove these claims either, you just say them, repeatedly. That certainly makes you a troll. Of course, it isn't entirely your fault since you do have a small fanbase here, like Hiro Protagonist up there who doesn't take kindly to Sensuki followers being called "cheerleaders" lol

 

A successful troll is able to stay on topic... that's why it's called "troll bait."

 

 

DId I miss something in those first couple of days when Pillars was released? One day Sensuki was keen on the game the next he loathed it. It was rather sudden, too sudden... Makes me think that it is personal. Was he offered a job by Obs who reneged, or was he hoping for a job which never materialized and now he is upset with them. It goes way beyond normal though. There are plenty of things out there that disappoint me - games, books, movies, but you accept that and move on. Or not as the case may be

 

I think Grom and Zora explained it pretty well. I doubt anyone is surprised that as soon as an official OBS response came in, that Sensuki would do his best to get as much attention his way as possible. At this point he doesn't care about what kind of attention he gets, as long as it is attention. Very much a jaded ex-gf type thing at this point. I feel sorry for the next gaming company that accepts his $200 Kickstarter contribution omigosh (the gift that keeps on giving)...

[Mazisky]

Is there anything that Sensuki likes about POE? i'm just curious.

 

I'd ilke to know what Sensuki would save from POE

[Sensuki]

"the game is bad, it's a sinking ship, combat is bad, nothing is fun."

You mustn't be reading my posts man, I said a few pages ago that the character system is fun. Bit hyberbolic there.

 

Is there anything that Sensuki likes about POE? i'm just curious.

 

I'd ilke to know what Sensuki would save from POE

Anything and everything can be improved but what I consider very good or better: Some of the Environment Art, Scripted Interactions/Interstitials, some of the UI design, some of the character system, Durance, Grieving Mother, Eder and Aloth. The soul detective quests are pretty cool/unique and the hollowborn storyline is the most interesting part about the plot even if it's only a side piece of it.

 

Good: Majority of the Environment Art, Character/Creature Art, Weapon system, portraits, some of the music, most of the animation, unified attack resolution system, attribute design etc etc

 

The new Sensuki narrative: After having backstabbed the grognards, Obsidian are now planning to plunge the knife all the way through and make PoE2 a full-blown casual game.

No. It's just putting two and two together. Obsidian are a mid-sized developer making RPGs. There are not many of these companies left in the world, let alone indepedent ones. They have a burn-rate of over a million USD per month to be able to afford to pay their staff.

 

A mid-sized project like a Pillars of Eternity sequel will need to make a significant return on investment, and Feargus Urquhart has already gone on record saying that most of the time, sequels are a sophomore slump as far as sales are concerned. Feargus is also a man who plays it safe.

 

To make the ROI that Obsidian needs on the sequel, they will need a wider audience and to get that audience they will most likely need to make the game more accessible, easier and aim a bit more for the lowest common denominator - at least that is the 'safest' way of getting such an audience. The Story Time mode is one example of this, this is a mode that will allow people who are very, very bad at RTWP combat to get through the game without getting so frustrated that they might return the game on Steam. A slower combat speed is also another thing that will make the combat more manageable for such people. Game journalists will be laughing as they demolish everything in their path when playing for review, if the default settings are Story Time and the default combat speed is slow. "9.5/10 great gaem, finished it in three days and now I've got two days off!!".

 

For the sequel I think you'll see a better story, better environment and character art, better load times, possibly better performance. I think you'll see less trash mobs. The character system will likely be simpler. The UI will probably be super-over-the-top transparent and handholding (possibly detrimentally so). I don't have too much hope for better quest or encounter design but the combat system probably won't be worse.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Sensuki

[Zenbane]

You don't even know what you're talking about, what suggestions exactly?

My opinion of the combat has always been that it needed work / wasn't right ever since the start of the beta. I raised my concerns about the combat and was told that my experience was based on a small level range [4-8] against underwhelming content.

If you weren't suggesting that your concerns about combat should be addressed... then why would you keep ridiculing the game for not addressing your combat concerns? It makes more sense that you were suggesting a resolution to your concerns, and since that never occurred... as several posters have stated in this thread, you're just bitter/angry/jaded.

 

No. It's just putting two and two together. Obsidian are a mid-sized developer making RPGs. There are not many of these companies left in the world, let alone indepedent ones. They have a burn-rate of over a million USD per month to be able to afford to pay their staff.

The term "putting two and two together" implies a concrete analysis, yet all you did was follow up with imaginary statistics (eg, not many of these companies) derived from your fabricated research. This is exactly what you do with your PoE criticisms, which is likely why your concerns were ignored.

 

An article to help give people a better idea of what a Mid-Sized dev company is all about:

https://www.whatech.com/games/press-releases/16741-few-of-the-best-mid-sized-game-develpment-companies-to-outsource

 

Obsidian is capable of making business/financial decisions that are nowhere near as elementary as what you suggested (eg, they formed a partnership with another Studio and are working on an MMORPG).

 

You are taking a small bit of information, mutilating it, and then presenting some doom and gloom scenario about a company that ignored your suggestions. That is, until someone calls you out on it and then you're all like, "what suggestions? I'm just doing math"

[rheingold]

 

"the game is bad, it's a sinking ship, combat is bad, nothing is fun."

You mustn't be reading my posts man, I said a few pages ago that the character system is fun. Bit hyberbolic there.

 

Is there anything that Sensuki likes about POE? i'm just curious.

 

I'd ilke to know what Sensuki would save from POE

Anything and everything can be improved but what I consider very good or better: Some of the Environment Art, Scripted Interactions/Interstitials, some of the UI design, some of the character system, Durance, Grieving Mother, Eder and Aloth. The soul detective quests are pretty cool/unique and the hollowborn storyline is the most interesting part about the plot even if it's only a side piece of it.

 

Good: Majority of the Environment Art, Character/Creature Art, Weapon system, portraits, some of the music, most of the animation, unified attack resolution system, attribute design etc etc

 

The new Sensuki narrative: After having backstabbed the grognards, Obsidian are now planning to plunge the knife all the way through and make PoE2 a full-blown casual game.

No. It's just putting two and two together. Obsidian are a mid-sized developer making RPGs. There are not many of these companies left in the world, let alone indepedent ones. They have a burn-rate of over a million USD per month to be able to afford to pay their staff.

 

A mid-sized project like a Pillars of Eternity sequel will need to make a significant return on investment, and Feargus Urquhart has already gone on record saying that most of the time, sequels are a sophomore slump as far as sales are concerned. Feargus is also a man who plays it safe.

 

To make the ROI that Obsidian needs on the sequel, they will need a wider audience and to get that audience they will most likely need to make the game more accessible, easier and aim a bit more for the lowest common denominator - at least that is the 'safest' way of getting such an audience. The Story Time mode is one example of this, this is a mode that will allow people who are very, very bad at RTWP combat to get through the game without getting so frustrated that they might return the game on Steam. A slower combat speed is also another thing that will make the combat more manageable for such people. Game journalists will be laughing as they demolish everything in their path when playing for review, if the default settings are Story Time and the default combat speed is slow. "9.5/10 great gaem, finished it in three days and now I've got two days off!!".

 

For the sequel I think you'll see a better story, better environment and character art, better load times, possibly better performance. I think you'll see less trash mobs. The character system will likely be simpler. The UI will probably be super-over-the-top transparent and handholding (possibly detrimentally so). I don't have too much hope for better quest or encounter design but the combat system probably won't be worse.

 

mmmm, I'm not sure Obs would want to change horses mid stream - by going after a new customer base as opposed to the one they already have would be a really bad decision, (not that companies don't make bad decisions all the time) but common sense would be for them to concentrate on keeping their current base happy first. Going story time is really not a big deal, it is so far from dumbing down - it's just a good compromise between keeping the hardcore crowd happy and getting new customers. Not sure why everyone is freaking out by an easy mode - it takes nothing away from the other gamers experiences, in fact if it introduces new people to the game it's a massive positive.

[Sensuki]

If you weren't suggesting that your concerns about combat should be addressed... then why would you keep ridiculing the game for not addressing your combat concerns? It makes more sense that you were suggesting a resolution to your concerns, and since that never occurred... as several posters have stated in this thread, you're just bitter/angry/jaded.

I did. actually - you weren't there. The response to my concerns about the system design was that it was too late to make changes and the thing I've previously re-iterated twice. Due to the fact that they were not going to change any of that stuff, I did not bring it up again until post-release. I also don't think there was really anyone involved in the beta that predicted that the combat across the game would be as repetitive as it is. I'm not the only one making these claims, I've seen posters at Something Awful and badgame.net, people who *hate* me say exactly the same things as I have.

 

If you're really interested in what I did and didn't do, feel free to search my post history, specifically threads created.

 

The term "putting two and two together" implies a concrete analysis, yet all you did was follow up with imaginary statistics (eg, not many of these companies) derived from your fabricated research. This is exactly what you do with your PoE criticisms, which is likely why your concerns were ignored.

"Over a million dollars a month" is from a Feargus interview. Infinitron or someone else from the Codex should be able to back up that statement, having also seen the interview.

 

An article to help give people a better idea of what a Mid-Sized dev company is all about:

https://www.whatech.com/games/press-releases/16741-few-of-the-best-mid-sized-game-develpment-companies-to-outsource

Obsidian outsourced the majority of their Wilderness Area Environment Art to a company in Portland. They said (quote is available somewhere) that Outsourcing is expensive. What exactly are you suggesting that they outsource ?

 

You are taking a small bit of information, mutilating it, and then presenting some doom and gloom scenario about a company that ignored your suggestions. That is, until someone calls you out on it and then you're all like, "what suggestions? I'm just doing math"

I don't think it's a gloomy scenario for most people, and you keep bringing up my ignored suggestions when you have absolutely no idea what I suggested or what was ignored. You're simply following on from something Gromnir said.

 

mmmm, I'm not sure Obs would want to change horses mid stream - by going after a new customer base as opposed to the one they already have would be a really bad decision, (not that companies don't make bad decisions all the time) but common sense would be for them to concentrate on keeping their current base happy first. Going story time is really not a big deal, it is so far from dumbing down - it's just a good compromise between keeping the hardcore crowd happy and getting new customers. Not sure why everyone is freaking out by an easy mode - it takes nothing away from the other gamers experiences, in fact if it introduces new people to the game it's a massive positive.

 

I didn't imply a change of horses, simply a broadening of the fanbase. The fanbase of Pillars of Eternity is not the same as the group of people that crowdfunded the game. It is pretty obvious simply by seeing who posts on this forum that the majority of people are new, non-backers.

 

I did not say that the presence of a Story Time mode is a bad thing. I do not care about it. If I was intending to play the sequel I would be concerned about the change to the combat speed though as I don't believe that action speed is the problem with the pace of combat. It's the swingy damage, and the movement speed of units IMO.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Sensuki

[rheingold]

 

If you weren't suggesting that your concerns about combat should be addressed... then why would you keep ridiculing the game for not addressing your combat concerns? It makes more sense that you were suggesting a resolution to your concerns, and since that never occurred... as several posters have stated in this thread, you're just bitter/angry/jaded.

I did. actually - you weren't there. The response to my concerns about the system design was that it was too late to make changes and the thing I've previously re-iterated twice. Due to the fact that they were not going to change any of that stuff, I did not bring it up again until post-release. I also don't think there was really anyone involved in the beta that predicted that the combat across the game would be as repetitive as it is. I'm not the only one making these claims, I've seen posters at Something Awful and badgame.net, people who *hate* me say exactly the same things as I have.

 

If you're really interested in what I did and didn't do, feel free to search my post history, specifically threads created.

 

The term "putting two and two together" implies a concrete analysis, yet all you did was follow up with imaginary statistics (eg, not many of these companies) derived from your fabricated research. This is exactly what you do with your PoE criticisms, which is likely why your concerns were ignored.

"Over a million dollars a month" is from a Feargus interview. Infinitron or someone else from the Codex should be able to back up that statement, having also seen the interview.

 

An article to help give people a better idea of what a Mid-Sized dev company is all about:

https://www.whatech.com/games/press-releases/16741-few-of-the-best-mid-sized-game-develpment-companies-to-outsource

Obsidian outsourced the majority of their Wilderness Area Environment Art to a company in Portland. They said (quote is available somewhere) that Outsourcing is expensive. What exactly are you suggesting that they outsource ?

 

You are taking a small bit of information, mutilating it, and then presenting some doom and gloom scenario about a company that ignored your suggestions. That is, until someone calls you out on it and then you're all like, "what suggestions? I'm just doing math"

I don't think it's a gloomy scenario for most people, and you keep bringing up my ignored suggestions when you have absolutely no idea what I suggested or what was ignored. You're simply following on from something Gromnir said.

 

mmmm, I'm not sure Obs would want to change horses mid stream - by going after a new customer base as opposed to the one they already have would be a really bad decision, (not that companies don't make bad decisions all the time) but common sense would be for them to concentrate on keeping their current base happy first. Going story time is really not a big deal, it is so far from dumbing down - it's just a good compromise between keeping the hardcore crowd happy and getting new customers. Not sure why everyone is freaking out by an easy mode - it takes nothing away from the other gamers experiences, in fact if it introduces new people to the game it's a massive positive.

 

I didn't imply a change of horses, simply a broadening of the fanbase. The fanbase of Pillars of Eternity is not the same as the group of people that crowdfunded the game. It is pretty obvious simply by seeing who posts on this forum that the majority of people are new, non-backers.

 

Isn't a broadening of the fan base a good thing? Yes it can be detrimental but if also can be positive. Having a larger fanbase brings in more resources, it doesn't necessarily mean a drop in quality. I guess it all depends though, if you trust the devs or not...

Regarding the majority people on the forums - that's pretty irrelevant to the discussion. So what if they are not backers? Again, surely that's a positive thing?

[AndreaColombo]

If they do make combat slower, I sure hope it will be optional. I like the current speed well enough.

[Sensuki]

Isn't a broadening of the fan base a good thing? Yes it can be detrimental but if also can be positive. Having a larger fanbase brings in more resources, it doesn't necessarily mean a drop in quality. I guess it all depends though, if you trust the devs or not...

Depends on what your definition of quality is, or what counts as an increase in quality or where the increase of quality arises from - I've already stated which areas I think will be focused on.

 

A larger fanbase is good for Obsidian, but not good for the people who enjoyed Infinity Engine combat, IMO.

 

Regarding the majority people on the forums - that's pretty irrelevant to the discussion. So what if they are not backers? Again, surely that's a positive thing?

Once again, positive for Obsidian, not necessarily a positive thing for some groups of players. Particularly people who enjoyed the Infinity Engine combat.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Sensuki

[rheingold]

Depends on what your definition of quality is, or what counts as an increase in quality. Polish and Presentation?

 

Good for Obsidian, but not good for the people who enjoyed Infinity Engine combat, IMO.

 

So what if they are not backers? Again, surely that's a positive thing?

Once again, positive for Obsidian, not necessarily a positive thing for some groups of players.

 

A small group of players who unless they are willing to pay a substantial amount of money each, will not keep a gaming developer afloat - and won't get to play many games....