So Dump Eder eh? Lend me your thoughts....

[Ymarsakar]

The quest to make a weapon imbued with your soul was more interesting (and powerful item) than the random effects. Random is pretty random, thus making tactics into luck. That might be fun rolling dice, since people have been gambling on dice since a long time now, but there's little point when the computer cracks the formulas.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Cacophonix]

Is Savage attack worth getting vrs the -5 accuracy penalty?

[Ymarsakar]

For two handed +15% damage weapons with lash effects, yea. It helps if you have a way to compensate, such as a paladin's aura.

 

By increasing base damage of the attack, lash damage is also increased.

 

Which also works rather well with flames of devotion, and you can turn off the mode if you think you're missing too much.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Teioh_White]

Savage attack is always a good choice, so long as the -5 acc isn't pushing you into miss territory. Even with a 1.5 crit mod, it still give more than a .1 mod overall, so it's really only misses that are a concern. It's easier to work the Acc/def ratio the later one is in the game to completely push misses off the table, and there's other talents to take, so I wouldn't make it one of the early ones. But unless you want to stock up on defensive talents, it's a no brainer.

[Boeroer]

Marking works great when you have a tanky character that marks and another one that flanks. It gives +10 ACC as long as you attack the same target. That's basically +10 ACC for the marker (because -10 deflection is the same as +10 ACC) and +20 ACC for the flanker (-10 defl., +10 ACC). This turns a lot of your flanker's attacks into crits against "normal" enemies and is very useful against hard to hit big ones. I tested it myself a couple of times and it works. Can't say anything about experiences with the paladin's coordinated attacks, but I read that it stacks. I never ran into problems with the range but I admit that my marking/flanking tactic only used melee attacks so far. You can also combine that stuff with coordinating weapons on the flanker (another +4 ACC for him) and hearth orlan's minor threat. So the optimal flanker would be a hearth orlan rogue.

[Nobear]

Can't say anything about experiences with the paladin's coordinated attacks, but I read that it stacks.

 

I can't say anything about coordinated attacks at all. A very bare-bones entry about it shows up on the Wiki, but I've never seen it show up on my paladin's ability choices when leveling. Was the ability removed a while back, perhaps?

[Torm51]

No its there. I think it used to be a requirement to get FoD First or it was bugged and not showing. Shows now by level 7 or so.

[Cacophonix]

Help me out here. I went and grabbed Zahua and respecced him as I can. His abilities ONLY work with wounds so He has to have some get in. His abilities with Sword of the Endless Paths (to me) do not seem better than if I gave the sword to Eder who has specializations to increase damage. On alpha strikes I got nothing with Zahua but at least Eder has the knock down and consistent damage on first hit.  I looked at both and it seems to me, if Eder is fully specced for 2 handers he is better than Zahua on my front line.

 

I am trying to figure out why Zahua is better than Eder when equipped with the SoEP.

 

Eder:

 

• Better mitigation
• Same accuracy
• Better weapon damage

 

Zahua:

 

• More abilities that only work after you are hit, taking damage.
• Abilities seem good lightning strikes, turning wheel.
• Less mitigation in same heavy armor.
• Better Stats distribution.

 

I cannot get rid of the first ability on Zauhua the strikes one. So if anyone can give me some pointers on how to use Zahua. I have him getting hold the line since I want both front liners to hold engagements. How do I build Zahua and really how does he work on that first attack? The path of Torment or whatever (causes crush and moves to target) requires 3 wounds! Also he would zip out of the line and take engagement dmg and expose my back line.

 

So I am told that Monks are better, I can learn and take advice. If someone can give a quick rundown on how/why it would be helpful.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Cacophonix

[KDubya]

Here are my suggestions on Monks

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82367-class-build-the-juggernaut-a-heavy-armored-monk/

 

The Juggernaut concept can be applied to Zahua and using Two handers as follows:

 

1.) Skip Hold the Line - engagements don't make any difference at all, especially not worth a talent.

 

2.) Zahua starts with Torments Reach - a great AoE damage booster. The next important abilities are Swift Strikes, Lightning Strikes, Adventurer Focus, Two handed style, Turning Wheel, Savage Attack, Vulnerable Attack, Apprentice Sneak Attack, Duality of Mortal Presence, Crucible of Suffering, Flagellant's Path.

 

3.) Put him in heavy armor for the DR

 

4.) Set his AI to aggressive and defensive auto attacks. If left alone he will spam out Torments as fast as he can, just check to make sure that he keeps Swift Strikes active as well.

 

5.) Use Flagellant's if you wan to engage a caster or archer in the back or if there is a big mob of enemies that you can zip across. This attacks and debuffs everyone in between where you start and where you end. Using this does not incur any disengagement attacks against you. Enemies that were attacking you tend to run after you setting themselves up for a return Flagellant's path back through them.

 

6.) AoE attacks and stacking lash attacks are where you get the damage output from. A Fighter will hit one target for approximately +38% damage from weapon spec, mastery and confident aim. One wound for Lightning strikes gets you a +25% lash and +25% attack speed which will have you out damage a Fighter. Every unused wound will add a 5% fire lash. Torments can hit several enemies at a time with a +50% crush damage adder. Flagellant's Path can hit many at a time.

 

7.) For that first attack just have Zahua run towards the enemy. Hopefully a mage there will fire off some sort of missile strike and get Zahua five or so wounds to start off with. Use one to activate Swift Strikes and then either start the Torments spam or zip through the front line and kill the mage with a Flagellants Path. Beating on their backline casters tends to make the enemy chase after you instead of going after your casters.

 

 

Once you get used to how Monks work you will realize just how pathetic Fighters are.

[Cacophonix]

Kdubya, thank you for the insight. I am on lvl 11(Od Nua) at the moment and closing in on the last part for SotEP. After that I will grab zahua and respec him.

 

I am tempted to get him now and correctly spec him and see how he does. I have Eder using Drakes Bane and it has a lash on it. 

 

Any preference on gear? I have those shock boots and plenty of deflection and protection rings and various cloaks, Shimmering the beast slayer, protection and disengagement as well as perception ones. 

 

I also have the helmet which procs +3 to might and defenses. i like the helms look on a heavy armored tank. Too bad Godlike cant wear it. I was going to have Zahua wear it. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Cacophonix

[Ymarsakar]

"

 

1.) Skip Hold the Line - engagements don't make any difference at all, especially not worth a talent."

 

They do make a difference since an advanced AI casting an ability will freely move to their preferred target if they are not in an engagement. There are other ways to engage them than using up a talent however.

 

By free;y move I don't mean they will take a hit from an engagement attack, but they will engage in melee with whomever is engaging them, but once the engagement links are broken, their AI then starts attacking the backline using specials.

 

This doesn't generally apply to the base Pillars game since most of the AI there isn't the upgraded White March ones.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Torm51]

IMO a monk just doesnt need that much.  I had Zahua in Superb light armor (the animal skin one that is 25% recovery and that has a unique name) and I used his fists end of story.  I had back up hatchets for crush immune mobs in the White March area.  With Turning Wheel, Torments reach and Iron wheel he was MVP in my PoTD Trial of Iron run.  He was wearing light armor so he hit very quickly and with extreme prejudice.  I am talking 40 + crits on hug DR mobs like Dragons with PHYSICAL damage.  That is out of control.  I attained him around level 9 and at the end of the game he had almost half a million damage.   

 

Maybe the Support he had is more then you guys give him?  I had a heavy frontline.  Paladin PC, Pallegina, tankyish Devil of Caroc (Riposte is surprisingly fun on a tanky rogue but I would not do it again there are better uses) and Zahua.  A lot of the times he was not the main target and when he was my PC would toss him Reinforcing Exhortation and for 29 seconds he had 100 deflection more then enough to still attain wounds but not too quickly. 

 

You can certainly make an effective Plate wearing monk especially early game but I think in the late game you can play a monk the way they are traditionally.  Very little armor and pounded dudes in plate armor with your fists.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Torm51

[Oralaina]

You can only make superb weapons from sky dragon eyes. You geht 3 of them: two from the sky dragon and one form Concelhaut's desk. Adra Dragon scales are only good for armor.

 

On my second playthrough, I was able to buy two of them from the woman in the stronghold curio shop.  Hope it wasn't a one-time glitch or something!

[Torm51]

Oh ya he was bashing concelhauts Ancient Death guards for 100+ damage so guys who are immune to fire so turning wheel was not effecting them...that double crush damage you get from Torments Reach is BRUTAL.  After Paladins for me (just cause I like the stlye and tankyness of Paladins) its monks.  Durable frontliners who put out damage like a rogue.  It might be a bit too much honestly. He is my favorite companion.  I like his voice acting and lore a lot too.

[Cacophonix]

Honestly that was my 2nd party make up. My personal Pally, Pellagrina for defensive aura, Eder/Monk for melee dps and Rogue with Tall Grass, Aloth for Aoe and Durance for Aoe resists and heals. I have a Cypher but not sure if its needed. In order to get that make up I would have to give up either the rogue or the cypher. I like Durance and aloth they both bring enough to the table to warrant keeping them. 

 

I use the Cpher for the Aoe knockback/stun which is very nice at start of fight. 

[KDubya]

I also prefer fists for a Monk. That said a Monk will still be better than a Fighter with both using Estocs. With my Monk run I used fists and had Zahua use TideFall just cause no one else was using it. He did great with it. On that run my two monks were the frontline with Pellagrina so I liked the heavier plate for the extra DR and used Zealous Endurance as well.

 

If I had a others establishing the frontline and could use the Monk as a flanker then lighter armor or even those robes that get that wizard spell on crit would boost the damage a lot. In plate with swift strikes I think it is 20/20 frames adjusted to 20/21 and in robes it'd be 20/14 or 17% faster.

 

With regards to the engagements with my Monk team - Zahua, Pellagrina, Sagani, Devil, and Kana, no one had any extra engagements and I never thought at any time 'boy, wish I had some additional engagements'. Once the two Monks started zipping across the field with flagellant's it was just mass chaos with the enemy running after the monks and then eating the return flagellant's and then a few Torments just for fun.

[Torm51]

I agree with a heavy melee frontline you do not need extra engagement as you have 4 frontliners who are more then likely very durable and there wont be any room for the enemy to get to your 2 second liners.

[AndreaColombo]

On my second playthrough, I was able to buy two of them from the woman in the stronghold curio shop.  Hope it wasn't a one-time glitch or something!

 

Did you kill the Sky Dragon in that play through?

 

I had already read of people purchasing the eyes from the Curio Shop, but it has never happened to me—and I kill the dragon every time. My theory is that you can buy the eyes from the Curio Shop if you don't kill the Sky Dragon, to compensate for your choosing the peaceful solution (otherwise, people going peaceful would be locked out of upgrading their weapons to Superb, which would be tantamount to punishing them for choosing not to fight.)

 

Of course, as I'm unable to say no to a good dragon fight, I could never put my theory to the test

Edited October 7, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Torm51]

 

On my second playthrough, I was able to buy two of them from the woman in the stronghold curio shop.  Hope it wasn't a one-time glitch or something!

 

Did you kill the Sky Dragon in that play through?

 

I had already read of people purchasing the eyes from the Curio Shop, but it has never happened to me—and I kill the dragon every time. My theory is that you can buy the eyes from the Curio Shop if you don't kill the Sky Dragon, to compensate for your choosing the peaceful solution (otherwise, people going peaceful would be locked out of upgrading their weapons to Superb, which would be tantamount to punishing them for choosing not fight.)

 

Of course, as I'm unable to say no to a good dragon fight, I could never put my theory to the test

 

Me either man.  I am unable to ever spare the Sky or Adra Dragon (actually once the Adra Dragon didn't spare me...My Goldpact Knights soul was returned to the wheel my friend I love Trial of Iron its like the only way to play for me! PoTD too).

Edited October 7, 2015 by Torm51

[AndreaColombo]

I could never play Trial of Iron. The thought of losing all my progress and having to start all over again because I made one poor strategical choice in a fight irks me to no end; I would end up punching my screen with some fury. I usually start out my games on Normal, up the ante to Hard when I hit level 5-6, and crank it up to PotD (using the IE Mod) when I hit level 10-11. It's my way to simulate some degree of level scaling in order to keep stuff challenging.

Edited October 7, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Oralaina]

 

On my second playthrough, I was able to buy two of them from the woman in the stronghold curio shop.  Hope it wasn't a one-time glitch or something!

 

Did you kill the Sky Dragon in that play through?

 

I had already read of people purchasing the eyes from the Curio Shop, but it has never happened to me—and I kill the dragon every time. My theory is that you can buy the eyes from the Curio Shop if you don't kill the Sky Dragon, to compensate for your choosing the peaceful solution (otherwise, people going peaceful would be locked out of upgrading their weapons to Superb, which would be tantamount to punishing them for choosing not to fight.)

 

Of course, as I'm unable to say no to a good dragon fight, I could never put my theory to the test

 

 

Nope, didn't kill her.  I don't like to kill the dragons....  First playthrough I didn't have WM yet so it didn't arise.  I think it's a nice thing then, if they did it that way on purpose so people like me could still have a couple of the best weapon upgrades.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Oralaina

[Ymarsakar]

I could never play Trial of Iron. The thought of losing all my progress and having to start all over again because I made one poor strategical choice in a fight irks me to no end; I would end up punching my screen with some fury. I usually start out my games on Normal, up the ante to Hard when I hit level 5-6, and crank it up to PotD (using the IE Mod) when I hit level 10-11. It's my way to simulate some degree of level scaling in order to keep stuff challenging.

 

Ever try to clear Caed Nua's quest at party level 2, Kana at level 3 on POTD?

[AndreaColombo]

Nope. Would likely be too hard for me to enjoy it.

[Torm51]

 

I could never play Trial of Iron. The thought of losing all my progress and having to start all over again because I made one poor strategical choice in a fight irks me to no end; I would end up punching my screen with some fury. I usually start out my games on Normal, up the ante to Hard when I hit level 5-6, and crank it up to PotD (using the IE Mod) when I hit level 10-11. It's my way to simulate some degree of level scaling in order to keep stuff challenging.

 

Ever try to clear Caed Nua's quest at party level 2, Kana at level 3 on POTD?

 

I am actually going to try it today.  I have done Caed Nua multiple times on PoTD but I always did Gilded Vale first.  I have a feeling this will severely threaten my Trial of Iron run early.  I like it.  Everyone is level 3 at this point.  I usually do it around 5.