Cannot Decide on a class

[bhill1007]

Hi am a long time fan of games like Baldur's gate. I got pillars almost a year ago on sale but I couldn't get into so I took a break. now every other month I try to start playing it to no avail. I have made it to the main city before ,but I always find a reason to stop. A lot of it has to do with I really do not know what class to play really. In the past I enjoyed the Bard class in Baldur's gate as well as the assassin. Sadly there really isn't a bard equivalent in Pillars and I have heard the rogue is not good. Any recommendations on Classes to chose?

[LaSpeakeasi]

The chanter is the bard equivalent.

 

Rogues are not only "good". They are the single highest DPS class in the game. And they are end-game necessity due to their mechanic skills.

[curryinahurry]

Chanter is the PoE equivalent of a bard (ninja'd).  Chants can buff and de-buff (enemies), chains of buffs lead to invocations which are best used for summons but can also be used for spell like effects like charm, damage, etc.  Chants don't have huse AoE so they need to stay pretty centered in the party.  They can be built as either ranged, back line or off-tank with reasonable dps.

 

Rogues take a lot of micro management, but are excellent damage dealers.  Ranged rogues are great with casters or frontline that can create hobbled, prone or other status effects.  Melee rogues are trickier because they go down pretty quick, but can do loads of damage.

 

key thing to remember about PoE is that attributes are important but less so than talents/abilities.  How you choose to build your character through level progression (and equipment) will effect the it a lot more than the starting stats

Edited October 4, 2015 by curryinahurry

[bhill1007]

yea i know chanter is like the bard,but I meant the bard had arcane spell casting and If I was to play a rogue I would duel daggers is that good or should I just be ranged

[curryinahurry]

Chanters still get spells, they just don't get Vancian casting.  

 

If you want to play a melee rogue, you can dual wield stilettos (better DR bypass than daggers).  But you can use pretty much any weapon and deliver plenty of damage.  Melee requires careful positioning and a bit of micro as rogues don't take punishment very well

 

PoE is not an IE clone, you need to learn game system and plan your characters accordingly.

Edited October 5, 2015 by curryinahurry

[LaSpeakeasi]

yea i know chanter is like the bard,but I meant the bard had arcane spell casting and If I was to play a rogue I would duel daggers is that good or should I just be ranged

Chanter have spellcasting too. They are actually one of the only 2 classes that get the old school IE summon spells.

 

Even in IE games rogues could do both or either... Rogues' role is not that different then and now.

[Ymarsakar]

Why don't you try out all the classes then instead of relying on what you heard. IE Mod allows story companion and PC class changes.

[Torm51]

The chanter is the bard equivalent.

 

Rogues are not only "good". They are the single highest DPS class in the game. And they are end-game necessity due to their mechanic skills.

Anyone can have a high mechanics.  Rogues are not an end game necessity.  I just completed a PoTD Trial of Iron run without one.  That being said they are amazing damage dealers and a compliment to any team.  Also like he said Chanters are the bard equivalent.  They can cast Paralyze and summon "spells" also some damage dealing ones.  I know they are called invocations but they are still types of spells.

[Luma Akasha]

Anyone can have a high mechanics.  Rogues are not an end game necessity.  I just completed a PoTD Trial of Iron run without one.  That being said they are amazing damage dealers and a compliment to any team.  Also like he said Chanters are the bard equivalent.  They can cast Paralyze and summon "spells" also some damage dealing ones.  I know they are called invocations but they are still types of spells.

This. I have never had a rogue in my party save the Devil. MMOs just spoiled them for me. My main is usually the mechanic, but anyone will do just as well. Rogues have no special bonus to mechanics that other classes do not have. Chanters, priests, and wizards make good mechanics as well.

 

I think Sagani (ranger) was my mechanic in my most recent playthrough.

 

"After him, Itumaak!"

[Elric Galad]

The chanter is the bard eauivalent

By the way chanter scales horribly for now and is a bit UP. They are also quite boring to play (which is the main problem if you want a character as fun as good old bard). You CAN summon a dragon except you are able to do it only once or twice... It was my first PC and I never included one again in my party.

 

However, chanter class concept is really nice. So maybe one day, they will be fixed and will be really fun...

Edited October 8, 2015 by Elric Galad

[Luma Akasha]

Chanters are okay on POTD where fights can last long enough to make use of their invocations / summons.

[PaintingInAir]

You could check out this tool for helping you pick a class.

[Merina]

Any recommendations on Classes to chose?

 

If you're so undecided, ... a Rogue as main character is really fine. Either that or a two-handed weapon Fighter. Even if you want to keep Eder, another fighter doesn't hurt and can be skilled differently if you want.

 

From Cilant Lis, sneak through Valewood and travel to Gilded Vale as quickly as possible. Visit the inn, hire one or two adventurers. Create them as you like. Get familiar with them.

 

If you're not happy with any of your heroes later, you can reskill them completely for a bit of money. Also the NPCs.

 

You can pick up all the NPC companions as well and switch them out of and into your party at every inn (or your castle). They still receive some XP while absent, and if you rebuild your castle a bit, you can send them on adventures to gain some extra XP even. Let them join the party for their side-quests ... or for the great banter in Defiance Bay, for example.

[the_dog_days]

I'm a rogue fanboy, but chanters are really powerful and low maintenance. Script the chants you want him to use, put him in some plate armor, give him a hatchet and shield, and go to town. He can tank, support, DPS, or crowd control and switch seamlessly between each. As with all the classes, for maximum effectiveness its best to micromanage but you can put him on auto pilot and he'll still be very effective.

[wanderon]

 

Anyone can have a high mechanics.  Rogues are not an end game necessity.  I just completed a PoTD Trial of Iron run without one.  That being said they are amazing damage dealers and a compliment to any team.  Also like he said Chanters are the bard equivalent.  They can cast Paralyze and summon "spells" also some damage dealing ones.  I know they are called invocations but they are still types of spells.

This. I have never had a rogue in my party save the Devil. MMOs just spoiled them for me. My main is usually the mechanic, but anyone will do just as well. Rogues have no special bonus to mechanics that other classes do not have. Chanters, priests, and wizards make good mechanics as well.

 

I think Sagani (ranger) was my mechanic in my most recent playthrough.

 

"After him, Itumaak!"

 

 

Actually rogues do have a bonus to mechanics - they start the game with 2 points in mechanics (one more than any other class and 2 more than most) which by the time you get to high levels translates into a fairly large number of skill points to match their max level thus making the rogue at the least the best choice for a high mechanics build (with chanters priests and wizards coming in second)

[LaSpeakeasi]

 

The chanter is the bard equivalent.

 

Rogues are not only "good". They are the single highest DPS class in the game. And they are end-game necessity due to their mechanic skills.

Anyone can have a high mechanics.  Rogues are not an end game necessity.  I just completed a PoTD Trial of Iron run without one.  That being said they are amazing damage dealers and a compliment to any team.  Also like he said Chanters are the bard equivalent.  They can cast Paralyze and summon "spells" also some damage dealing ones.  I know they are called invocations but they are still types of spells.

 

The highest skill check in the game is 15. For anyone who isn't a rogue (and not using Brighthollow bonus) that's every single skill point you ever have in the game. You won't even have points left for athletics. And the party's athletics is only as good as the lowest member.

 

Rogues start with 3 mechanics. By the time they get to 15 they still have 23 points left. The starting skill bonus makes ALL the difference.

Edited October 10, 2015 by LaSpeakeasi

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

The chanter is the bard equivalent.

 

Rogues are not only "good". They are the single highest DPS class in the game. And they are end-game necessity due to their mechanic skills.

Anyone can have a high mechanics.  Rogues are not an end game necessity.  I just completed a PoTD Trial of Iron run without one.  That being said they are amazing damage dealers and a compliment to any team.  Also like he said Chanters are the bard equivalent.  They can cast Paralyze and summon "spells" also some damage dealing ones.  I know they are called invocations but they are still types of spells.

 

The highest skill check in the game is 15. For anyone who isn't a rogue (and not using Brighthollow bonus) that's every single skill point you ever have in the game. You won't even have points left for athletics. And the party's athletics is only as good as the lowest member.

 

Rogues start with 3 mechanics. By the time they get to 15 they still have 23 points left. The starting skill bonus makes ALL the difference.

 

Not if you have items that boost mechanics, at the moment in one of my playthroughs off the top of my head for instance I have one character with gloves that give +2 mechanics skill, which already nullifies the rogue class advantage to the skill.  Also, you seem to be miscounting, rogues don't start with a +3, they start with a +2, you are probably also counting a background bonus, something other characters can take too, which in addition to the +1 some of the other classes get to mechanics means that you can get up to +2 easily enough without being a rogue, which is just one point difference (and that assumes the rogue takes a background to give a bonus to Mechanics, otherwise it's even). You also don't need to pass all mechanics tests, if it's a lock then you can use lockpicks to compensate and if it's a trap, well just don't trip it or trip it with someone you know can take it.

Edited October 10, 2015 by FlintlockJazz

[wanderon]

 

 

 

The chanter is the bard equivalent.

 

Rogues are not only "good". They are the single highest DPS class in the game. And they are end-game necessity due to their mechanic skills.

Anyone can have a high mechanics.  Rogues are not an end game necessity.  I just completed a PoTD Trial of Iron run without one.  That being said they are amazing damage dealers and a compliment to any team.  Also like he said Chanters are the bard equivalent.  They can cast Paralyze and summon "spells" also some damage dealing ones.  I know they are called invocations but they are still types of spells.

 

The highest skill check in the game is 15. For anyone who isn't a rogue (and not using Brighthollow bonus) that's every single skill point you ever have in the game. You won't even have points left for athletics. And the party's athletics is only as good as the lowest member.

 

Rogues start with 3 mechanics. By the time they get to 15 they still have 23 points left. The starting skill bonus makes ALL the difference.

 

Not if you have items that boost mechanics, at the moment in one of my playthroughs off the top of my head for instance I have one character with gloves that give +2 mechanics skill, which already nullifies the rogue class advantage to the skill.  Also, you seem to be miscounting, rogues don't start with a +3, they start with a +2, you are probably also counting a background bonus, something other characters can take too, which in addition to the +1 some of the other classes get to mechanics means that you can get up to +2 easily enough without being a rogue, which is just one point difference (and that assumes the rogue takes a background to give a bonus to Mechanics, otherwise it's even). You also don't need to pass all mechanics tests, if it's a lock then you can use lockpicks to compensate and if it's a trap, well just don't trip it or trip it with someone you know can take it.

 

 

Those items that boost mechanics are available to rogues as well - no way to get around the fact that rogues can have higher mechanics than any other class.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

 

The chanter is the bard equivalent.

 

Rogues are not only "good". They are the single highest DPS class in the game. And they are end-game necessity due to their mechanic skills.

Anyone can have a high mechanics.  Rogues are not an end game necessity.  I just completed a PoTD Trial of Iron run without one.  That being said they are amazing damage dealers and a compliment to any team.  Also like he said Chanters are the bard equivalent.  They can cast Paralyze and summon "spells" also some damage dealing ones.  I know they are called invocations but they are still types of spells.

 

The highest skill check in the game is 15. For anyone who isn't a rogue (and not using Brighthollow bonus) that's every single skill point you ever have in the game. You won't even have points left for athletics. And the party's athletics is only as good as the lowest member.

 

Rogues start with 3 mechanics. By the time they get to 15 they still have 23 points left. The starting skill bonus makes ALL the difference.

 

Not if you have items that boost mechanics, at the moment in one of my playthroughs off the top of my head for instance I have one character with gloves that give +2 mechanics skill, which already nullifies the rogue class advantage to the skill.  Also, you seem to be miscounting, rogues don't start with a +3, they start with a +2, you are probably also counting a background bonus, something other characters can take too, which in addition to the +1 some of the other classes get to mechanics means that you can get up to +2 easily enough without being a rogue, which is just one point difference (and that assumes the rogue takes a background to give a bonus to Mechanics, otherwise it's even). You also don't need to pass all mechanics tests, if it's a lock then you can use lockpicks to compensate and if it's a trap, well just don't trip it or trip it with someone you know can take it.

 

 

Those items that boost mechanics are available to rogues as well - no way to get around the fact that rogues can have higher mechanics than any other class.

 

Yeah, but I was focusing on whether you need a rogue or not or whether it's even needed to get that high anyway.  As far as I can work it out, rogues are only one point better than other classes that give a mechanics boost, not enough to say they are essential for trapfinding and picklocking.

 

EDIT: going purely off the mechanics skill of course.  Whether you feel that stealth is also needed so that you can find those traps while scouting is a consideration I can see being important, which the combination of class skills does put the rogue in the lead, but purely by mechanic skill only wizards and chanters are not far behind.

Edited October 10, 2015 by FlintlockJazz

[KDubya]

Laspeakeasi has it right, the starting free skill levels make all the difference due to them saving you from buying the last most expensive skill levels.

 

 

 

In the base game it doesn't matter much. You had 12 levels  = 66 skill points, the highest check was 12 and you could find the gloves +2. I've never found the gloves yet so I like to not include them in the numbers.

 

A Rogue with the right background gets you +3 mechanics. To get to level 12 you'd need 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45 points, leaving 21 points for stealth level 4, athletics level 3 and a few left over.

 

A cipher/chanter/wizard would need 55 skill point to get the same mechanics level 12. This leaves only 11 points for your stealth and athletics.

 

Anyone else needs all 66 skill points just for the mechanics.

 

If you stopped at level ten mechanics you could open everything and just have to eat a few traps. Anyone could handle this for only 45 points and still be able to cover the required athletics and stealth.

 

The expansion upped the ante and the next expansion will continue that trend. I can use my Paladin or Monk as the trap finder until I get the Devil, but from then on only a rogue will have enough skill points to keep up. Even then a few traps will be unlockable or even unseeable.

[LaSpeakeasi]

Yeah, but I was focusing on whether you need a rogue or not or whether it's even needed to get that high anyway.  As far as I can work it out, rogues are only one point better than other classes that give a mechanics boost, not enough to say they are essential for trapfinding and picklocking.

 

 

 

EDIT: going purely off the mechanics skill of course.  Whether you feel that stealth is also needed so that you can find those traps while scouting is a consideration I can see being important, which the combination of class skills does put the rogue in the lead, but purely by mechanic skill only wizards and chanters are not far behind.

 

The Gloves of Mechanics is random loot. Meaning you can't get it in a normal game. It's entirely based on luck. In my 4 playthroughs only 1 of them did I happened upon a pair. So you shouldn't count on getting it.

 

Wizards and chanters and ciphers simply can't become competent mechanics without major luck and/or sacrifice.

Edited October 11, 2015 by LaSpeakeasi

[gkathellar]

 

Yeah, but I was focusing on whether you need a rogue or not or whether it's even needed to get that high anyway.  As far as I can work it out, rogues are only one point better than other classes that give a mechanics boost, not enough to say they are essential for trapfinding and picklocking.

 

 

 

EDIT: going purely off the mechanics skill of course.  Whether you feel that stealth is also needed so that you can find those traps while scouting is a consideration I can see being important, which the combination of class skills does put the rogue in the lead, but purely by mechanic skill only wizards and chanters are not far behind.

 

The Gloves of Mechanics is random loot. Meaning you can't get it in a normal game. It's entirely based on luck. In my 4 playthroughs only 1 of them did I happened upon a pair. So you shouldn't count on getting it.

 

Luck nothing. You just need the right timing.

 

Perhaps more crucially, there are only a few skill checks with ultra-high requirements. You simply have to use rest bonuses and/or whatever scrolls you can find when they're coming up.

[LaSpeakeasi]

 

 

Yeah, but I was focusing on whether you need a rogue or not or whether it's even needed to get that high anyway.  As far as I can work it out, rogues are only one point better than other classes that give a mechanics boost, not enough to say they are essential for trapfinding and picklocking.

 

 

 

EDIT: going purely off the mechanics skill of course.  Whether you feel that stealth is also needed so that you can find those traps while scouting is a consideration I can see being important, which the combination of class skills does put the rogue in the lead, but purely by mechanic skill only wizards and chanters are not far behind.

 

The Gloves of Mechanics is random loot. Meaning you can't get it in a normal game. It's entirely based on luck. In my 4 playthroughs only 1 of them did I happened upon a pair. So you shouldn't count on getting it.

 

Luck nothing. You just need the right timing.

 

Perhaps more crucially, there are only a few skill checks with ultra-high requirements. You simply have to use rest bonuses and/or whatever scrolls you can find when they're coming up.

 

1) I love how the thread itself was like "whoa we're not really sure about this".

2) Some of us just don't want to game the system. If I do it like that I might as well get the IE mod and fire up the console.

3) The Brighthollow bonus is somewhat inconvenienced in that the highest skill check areas happen to be quite far from Caed Nua (>1 day), by the time you reached them you already used one rest. You'll find yourself traveling to and fro quite a lot.

4) I maintain that this is a design oversight on OBS' part. Such an essential item should not be left to random loot. And I'd bitch about it every chance I get.

Edited October 11, 2015 by LaSpeakeasi

[gkathellar]

4) I maintain that this is a design oversight on OBS' part. Such an essential item should not be left to random loot. And I'd bitch about it every chance I get.

I'm with you there, brother.

 

(Especially the bitching, which is all I do here these days.)

[Ymarsakar]

Console it in, won't be random any more.