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Paladin Leader in 2.0

leader paladin build 2.0

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#21
Torm51

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Do you run Charge? I have a melee heavy frontline very similar group and do find myself not really having to move as much which does reduce the effectiveness of Zealous Charge.  It is good to have if things go wrong but they haven't lol.  Maybe I should respect into endurance.  Running Charge and Focus with 2 paladins atm.



#22
Ymarsakar

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Thank you all for your answers!
Very interesting perspectives...

I specially like Ymarsakar idea. My problem before was that I'd probably read too much information, and ideas, and builds, and I was starting to think that maxing (and, therefore, minimizing) stats was the only way to go when making an effective build; and that, mix with my obssesion for having as much dialogue options as I can, resulted in a loop where it was impossible to have all the stats I wanted.

But the idea of building a balanced character, that can tank but also make some damage, even if he's not the best at any of that, is something I like. I hate the idea of being a "pure tank" with 3 dex that sits there taking hits and boring himself to death, so something with options and possibilities sound great to me; but before this posts I was led to think that a mix of tank and some DD was impossible to achieve for a paladin.

So I was thinking in something like... 15 might, 10 con, 6 dex, 16 per, 15 int, 16 res, do you think it can work? I'm not sure if 10 con + 6 dex is enough to make someone semi-competent in hitting and surviving.

Also, two questions: for the Ymarsakar build.... do you go full plate and big shields? or something in the middle, so your speed doesn't fall to the sewers?
And, scion of flame works with flames of devotion? Its advisable to pick it when improving the offense of a Paladin?

Thank you all again!
It's been very helpful :)
 

Josh Sawyer, the production lead on Pillars, wanted to move away from min max builds with dump stats. So people can still min max here, they just take a big minus for a big plus in another area. But min maxing was big in DnD Baldur's Gate 2 style, where charisma in combat was... non existent. Maybe on a sorcerer for more spell casts. Dump that to 3 to get more strength that actually does damage, and all the npc companions with 12 cha and 16 cha for role playing... didn't do much in combat as a result.

 

In pillars every stat applies to every class in some fashion, just some play styles like a certain stat spread over others. Why that is, involves a very deep understanding of the game mechanics.

 

High dexterity builds affect the fast and medium weapons more, the single handed weapons over the ones that need reloading or are two handed large. Which also means that a low dexterity build doesn't decrease the dps of an estoc White Spire build as much as it would for other mixes, from what I've noticed. There's not much difference between medium armor and heavy plate armor speed wise. If front line melee, I would merely go with the heaviest armor, highest DR for the damage being taken. Full plate is the best, but also expensive or slightly rarer. Even my monks wear plate or full plate. I went with small shields for the accuracy improvement over large shields. Paladins also get access to a special shield for only paladins that is small.

 

Scion of flames is more for tanking drakes and fire dragons. Not all that necessary if you got potions and scrolls. The damage buff does apply to the flame attack, because the flame lash effect from the power is a percentage of your base damage. So if your two handed sword does 30 damage in one hit, a lash of +50% fire damage would deal about 15 extra fire damage added to that 30. The second flame talent adds another +50% on top, so it does about 30 damage. DR mitigates some of it, but not sure how the formula works for the dmg from lashes. So 20% extra fire damage would take the lash damage and multiply it by 1.2 But that's not the trick people use with paladin if they want max fire damage. The trick is to wear forgemaster gloves and use firebrand on your paladin. This gives you a two handed sword that only does fire damage. I've heard it can do some pretty good top damage hits with the flame attack.

 

The way DR tends to work from my experience, is that it slows down the rate at which large hits can kill you, by allowing emergency heals time to take effect or cc to stop the enemy. The ogre hits for 50+ sometimes, but only every once 4 seconds or more. DR is most effective against enemies that have lower accuracy than your defense, where they tend to graze all the time. So 20 DR vs 50 still lets in 30 damage per hit. But if you can make the big hitters and the small hitters graze all the time, that's 20 DR vs 25 damage. So high DR plus high deflection is very good for anybody that is taking continuous physical damage. It's also good against some spells. So the difference between -50 recovery and -35 recovery from medium armor, is about maybe 10% attack speed. -50 itself is about 30 or 33% attack speed, debuff. In my experience, 10% attack speed debuff isn't important vs having 8 DR vs 16 DR. The attack speed stack on the naked ranger, now that's a different matter.

 

Torm, I mostly used Kana's move speed party buff in those instances. Most of my front line has enough defenses that they can just go through a bunch of disengagement attacks without a lot of problems, if their endurance is maxed from HOT heals and auras.

 

I normally turn off the Obsidian notifications in dialogue where I lack a requirement. From what I've seen the dialogue for Might and PER were the most interesting, with INT being like the investigator who jumps to the end and gives the answer without explaining the logic of deduction, and Resolve being a shortcut pass challenges. It doesn't make things feel more challenging or difficult, as if you were fighting it, it just cuts a way for you via the option. But that's generally why I prefer Planescape Torment writers with their peculiar notions of world building and Shadowrun's own peculiar notion of dialogue and class building. Obsidian has some good flavor in the dialogue and adventure texts, but their factions are more interesting overall than the dialogue system for me.

 

White March is definitely a step up in the content quality across the board, however, from what little I've played of the content.


Edited by Ymarsakar, 11 September 2015 - 10:22 AM.

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#23
Elthalas

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So, requirements are PE, IN, RE >= 16, paladin, roleplaying, not POTD, something that feels rewarding to play with stats that work for the build without being a mix-maxed stat monster.

 

How about a kind-hearted asthmatic giant, who was born in Aedyr, became a respected clergyman, and felt the call to join a martial holy order defending what he believed in? Not the strongest of giants, but a good friend and protector, a respected leader of men, who never let his frail health stop him from doing what he felt right.

 

Race: Coastal Aumaua (it would be strange to see an Island Aumaua from Aedyr, so Coastal it is. Coastal also has nice bonuses for staying on your feet.)

Origin: Aedyr

Background: Clergyman

Shieldbearers of St. Elcga. (The Aedyran order of holy warriors. +Diplomatic/Honest. - Aggressive/Cruel)

 

11 Might

8 Constitution

10 Dexterity

16 Perception

17 Intelligence

16 Resolve

 

Defense modifiers: -2 Fortitude, +12 Reflex, +26 Will.

 

...Sure, the Fortitude save is low, but what would you expect from a giant with asthma? And Faith & Conviction means the character is no worse off than non-paladins starting with +8 Fortitude. Still, it is something to shore up with equipment along the way, no doubt.

 

1h+shield user. Using the paladin-only buckler from Gilded Vale  for most of the game for +5 all defenses for himself and every nearby companion, and whatever 1h you prefer - from a game mechanics perspective, ideally one that either has +1 Engagement Limit or one that applies some sort of debuff when it hits; This giant isn't going to be doing much damage, but he is going to be hitting.

 

The following build focuses on giving you many abilities to support the party and save the day, but does not attempt to maximize deflection, because, while nice, it isn't strictly needed, and the paladin will have really high deflection even without taking things like Cautious Attack and Superior Deflection due high Resolve, Faith and Conviction, and wielding the paladin buckler that gives 8 (buckler) + 0-12 (quality) + 5 (herald effect from buckler) + 6 (Weapon and Shield Style) = 19-31 deflection. (Though one would probably want those talents anyhow playing POTD... but you are not playing POTD.)

 

 

1. Lay on Hands.

2. (Def) Weapon and Shield Style.

3. Zealous Endurance or Focus depending on party need. Endurance would be most thematic.

4. (Def) Hold the Line. (Yay, two engagement. And engagement is still valuable in 2.0, just not as important as it was previously.)

5. Flames of Devotion

6. (Cla) Shielding Flames.

7. Reviving or Liberating Exhortation.

8. (Def) Bear's Fortitude.

9. Reviving or Liberating Exhortation. (The one not taken at 7.)

10. (Cla) Greater Lay on Hands.

11. Hastening Exhortation. (It is only 3/rest, not /encounter, but it is +20% attack speed for 40.5s with 17int to an ally, and that's worth a lot in important fights).

12. (Cla) Deep Faith or (Uti) Scion of Flame.

13. Sacred Immolation.

14. (Cla) Deep Faith or Scion of Flame. (The one not taken at 12.)

 

(Hey, 20% extra damage on Sacred Immolation isn't too shabby. Worth a talent? Good question, but all the low hanging fruit has already been taken at that point unless you desperately want to maximize deflection.)

Haha love him!
I think having a very strong idea of who is your character is absolutly basic to enjoy this kind of games. Well, you could play for the strategy and the mechanics, but for me the narrative, the setting, the characters - inmersing yourself in the story -  is the reason I play RPGs. And all videogames, really, but with RPGs is even more obvious.
So using your character idea for the creation of the build is perfect; even if you're not a powerhouse, you're going to enjoy it either way. For me it's the same with the NPCs: a lot of people complains about your companions, because they don't have 'ideal' stats, some of them are even mediocre... but, well, they're people. If you want to play with the stats, you can always create a puppet, but if not... well, you'll have to learn to compensate their defects.

Buuut I'm not going to take your build, not because I don't like it, but because I already had an idea about the background I wanted to play.
I rounded it a little with the general suggestions and with Yrmarsakar (I like the sound of that name) last comment, also because I share his view on writting and I also like the Planescape/Shadowrun approach to story. So I'm going to favor Per > Int > Res, because it connects better with the character I've in mind and I'm probably going to like more the conversations (I don't like the resolve approach of: I've a wonderful aura, so with my magic words you're going to see the truth and do what I say)

So, here we go:


-----------------------

He's a human from a small colony in The White that Wends. Son of a solitary Kind Wayfarer's knight, he doesn't remember his mother, but the presence of some albino features points to a pale elf blood heritage. That distanced him somewhat from others in the settlement, turning him in a observant and toughtful individual. Nevertheless, his father showed him the value of compassion and empathy, the importance of helping and protecting those in need, and gave him martial training since early age.
At the dead of his father, the thirst to explore the vast world and know its people finally overcome him, so he took a ship that was heading North and, after some weeks, he found himself in the Dyrwood, eager to put in practice his abilities.

Race: Meadow Folk (interesting abilities, even if our CON is not so great to sustain it. But I wanted it for RP anyway)

Origin: The White that Wends

Background: Explorer

Kynd Wayfarers. (It was the most attractive order for me since the beginning, with all the hedge knight feeling they have. Also, almost the only one that you could expect to find in The White. +Benevolent/Passionate. - Deceptive/Cruel)


15 Might

9 Constitution

6 Dexterity

17 Perception

16 Intelligence

15 Resolve


Defense modifiers: +8 Fortitude, +6 Reflex, +22 Will.
 
Weapons: Two sets: generally, an offensive approach, with 2-h weapons, trying to cause as much damage as possible (the 15 might somewhat helps), and delivering some killing blows to reap the Strange Mercy effect. 1/2, or 1/3 of the talents are going to focus in the offensive department. 1H & shield when the situation looks grim, or for bigger/dangerous enemies.
 
Talents: I don't know exactly the order yet, but more or less the talent would be:

1. Lay on Hands.
               
 and, in no order:

> Strange Mercy

> Zealous Focus.
 
> Sworn enemy
 
> Flames of Devotion
 
> Intense Flames

> Reviving  Exhortation.
 
> Two-Handed Style

> Liberating Exhortation

> Greater Lay on Hands.

> Inspiring Thriump.

> Deep Faith

> Sacred Immolation.

> Bloody Slaughter.

 
Maybe's: Scion of Flame, Hastening Exhortation, Vulnerable Attack, Interrupting Blows, Weapon & Shield Style, Righteous Soul, Bear's Fortitude.

 
Something like that.
With this I hope to have a relatively offensive Paladin, that while not being the MAIN tank cand hold the front line while distributing some buffings and healings here and there, some of them trough the Strange Mercy ability.
I've to round the talent selection, and, depending on the results, maybe I've to respec a little more towards the defensive department, or towards and offensive-interrupter, or offensive-finisher... but, well, at least there are respecs now.
 

Could work. Maybe.


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#24
Torm51

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Not bad.  The 9 Con is going to hurt but if its for RP or you are ok with resting more it will work.  Especially because you have 15 Might which will help your Fort defense.  Not b ad at all.  I am also playing a Wayfarer for the first time in this play through (Shieldbearer and Goldpact Knight previously).


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#25
Torm51

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Strange Mercy might not be that good with your build as with your low DEX you will not get very many killing blows.  Maybe after you get FoD grab Sword and the Shepherd...or line up your FoD alphas for Strange Mercy.


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#26
Elric Galad

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Stupid question : does Sacred Immolation has an interrupt value ?

 

If yes, as you're going to have godly perception, it might worth also taking Interrupting blow talent.



#27
Ymarsakar

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<B>Talents: I don't know exactly the order yet, but more or less the talent would be:</b>

 

Good starting plan so far.

 

Weapon focus soldier goes with flames of devotion and sworn enemy, because all 3 works together to deal solid damage with two handed sword, pike, or shatterstar. Shatterstar is the warhammer one handed, that goes with the shield deflection weapon slot. It gives +1 engagement, so you can save a talent just by using that weapon, which is available early on  at the city store.

 

Strange mercy takes a little bit of observation. Either change your ranged dps to another target when the enemy is at near death, or use the 2 per encounter flames of devotion to get the killing blow. Reminds me of FPS games where you try to kill steal and get final blows on people for more pts. It's like a mini game. But Torm's advice is solid, with lay on hands, you can push off taking strange mercy until you have a solid two handed dps line up. Sworn enemy, flames of devotion, weapon focus soldier. Any two of those should be sufficient damage potential to proc strange mercy well.

 

The exhortations and some other talents are level locked. So until level 4 or 6, you won't see many class talents, which is why people tend to go with lay on hands first. After level 6, however, paladins have so many good talents and class talents that it becomes difficult to choose, even for those experienced with building paladins. That's why I have two paladins in my party now. The two cipher combo was also excellent in my experience, but took a lot of micromanagement and they were kind of squishy.

 

Race: Meadow Folk (interesting abilities, even if our CON is not so great to sustain it. But I wanted it for RP anyway)

 

You could also play a pale elf, the backstory would just be slightly changed for mother and father. Far as I know, only the Aedyr Empire have technical marriages between humans and elves, but there are no half or mixed elves or humans for that matter. So a human picked up by a pale elf family or a pale elf picked up by a human family, in the wild, should work in that context.

 

On another note, the Kind Wayfers feel very close as I've read many stories of knight errants in human history. Learning how to wield a sword in real life was also more fun and exciting than Hollywood movies or most fictional accounts. Here's some interesting vids on the subject.

 

11111

22222


Edited by Ymarsakar, 12 September 2015 - 11:03 AM.


#28
Torm51

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To be honest though most of the order talents are no good other then the Darcozzi accuracy buff. Wayfarer talents are useful early game buy they don't scale. So when you have 200 endurance it will still heal for 20...which is a drop of your End.

#29
KDubya

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You might want to take Strange mercy at an early opportunity. At low level the +24 endurance heal is more noticeable and appreciated. Plus if you find it totally lackluster at high levels you can re-spec and get something else.

 

If you are not going with a FoD alpha strike with an arquebus you might get better use out of the Sword and Shepherd talent which gets you a mini AoE heal when you use FoD. That would let you control the heal aspect instead of the more difficult to control heal from the on-kill effect.

 

If you bring Pellegrina along with you you'll have two auras, four lay on hands and other Paladin goodies.

 

The only issue I'm having with my Kind Wayfarer is identifying the Passionate responses. Benevolent is easy, avoiding Deceptive is easy. In my normal runs I end up with a few Cruel and Aggressive, in fact pretty much all over the board.



#30
Tennisgolfboll

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Here is a build i like. Hardest tank. And still good damage. Just try him and you will see.

Moon race
Aedyr/ ixamitl.plains

Mig 18
Con 18
Dex 3
Per 10
Int 10
Res 19

He will be a fantastic tank. Give him the sabre that drains hp and you will be surprised at the damage he deals. Use other sabres before that.

Level 2 weapon shield
4 better faith n conv
6 deflection
8 will
10 fort
12 refl
14 cautious attack

(last 4 in order you prefer, cautious nice for bosses)

Level 3 To hit aura
5 sworn enemy (use this to pump damage up)
7 flaming sword
9 bonus vs will attacks


By his silvertide, 2 strong lay.on hands and drain attacks coupled with insane defenses makes taking him out hard. His endurance pool almost becomes his health pool


He works almost the same with 11 mig and 10 dex if you prefer

Edited by Tennisgolfboll, 13 September 2015 - 12:11 AM.


#31
pi2repsion

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If you are going for that more offensive paladin you posted, Elthalas, you really ought to pick up either Weapon Focus: Soldier or Weapon Focus: Knight.

 

The Soldier focus is more generally useful for the paladin you describe, using 1h+sh and 2h interchangeably, but the Knight focus might be more appropriate with the backstory depending on whether you see his father's background as being a feudal knight who joined the Kind Wayfarer's of perhaps, an ex-soldier, or something else entirely.

 

I did have fun writing up that asthmatic giant, though. If I ever do start a third playthrough of the game, perhaps it will be his time to shine.



#32
Ymarsakar

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You might want to take Strange mercy at an early opportunity. At low level the +24 endurance heal is more noticeable and appreciated. Plus if you find it totally lackluster at high levels you can re-spec and get something else.

 

If you are not going with a FoD alpha strike with an arquebus you might get better use out of the Sword and Shepherd talent which gets you a mini AoE heal when you use FoD. That would let you control the heal aspect instead of the more difficult to control heal from the on-kill effect.

 

If you bring Pellegrina along with you you'll have two auras, four lay on hands and other Paladin goodies.

 

The only issue I'm having with my Kind Wayfarer is identifying the Passionate responses. Benevolent is easy, avoiding Deceptive is easy. In my normal runs I end up with a few Cruel and Aggressive, in fact pretty much all over the board.

 

 

I'm guessing you have some of the dialogue tooltips turned off. Passionate is generally when an emotional reaction is the response to an event. It's very similar to aggressive, except the emphasis is on denying evil or bad behavior, vs trying to hurt/attack people.

 

I mostly go with honest, diplomatic, and benevolent. I turn the dialogue options off and on sometimes to check what Obsidian thinks is X and Y though.

 

That's a good tip about the Sword and Sh talent, I hadn't seen that one.

 

Wayfarer talents are useful early game buy they don't scale.

 

 

Another reason why Silver Tide is too powerful for the current balance mix. 3 per encounter level 4 aoe regen spells vs class talents. Since the paladin doesn't need another buff or rebalance, it's more convenient to isolate that one racial.


Edited by Ymarsakar, 13 September 2015 - 07:34 AM.

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#33
Torm51

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I agree. I really like Moon godlike aesthetically but they are OP.

#34
Nobear

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Talents: I don't know exactly the order yet, but more or less the talent would be:


1. Lay on Hands.
               
 and, in no order:

> Strange Mercy

> Zealous Focus.
 
> Sworn enemy
 
> Flames of Devotion
 
> Intense Flames

> Reviving  Exhortation.
 
> Two-Handed Style

> Liberating Exhortation

> Greater Lay on Hands.

> Inspiring Thriump.

> Deep Faith

> Sacred Immolation.

> Bloody Slaughter.

 
Maybe's: Scion of Flame, Hastening Exhortation, Vulnerable Attack, Interrupting Blows, Weapon & Shield Style, Righteous Soul, Bear's Fortitude.

 

Righteous Soul is extremely valuable for any paladin. I would definitely rank it higher than Deep Faith. Sure, Deep Faith is more widely applicable, but it's a drop in the bucket in comparison. The various types of mind control are widely considered the most annoying/difficult aspects of this game. While a minority of all fights feature them, and many of these can successfully be controlled by CCing the enemy before they can CC you, there will almost certainly be times where you will be very glad if your paladin does get mind controlled but only briefly and can come right back into the action.

 

If you are looking for alternate talents you could drop for Righteous Soul, if you do decide to drop Strange Mercy for Sword and Shepherd and be less concerned about landing the killing blow, keep in mind that you could also safely drop Bloody Slaughter. Bloody Slaughter is not a very big boost to DPS overall, since it applies to such a small endurance range, so is only really worth a talent point if you're trying to trigger on-kill effects. And if you decide not to focus on on-kill effects, you could drop Inspiring Triumph as well.

 

Of course, at this point, your play style would be significantly affected. In the end, especially since you're not playing PoTD, go whichever route you enjoy more. Cheers!


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#35
Torm51

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I cannot not take Righteous Soul.  Like I hate it cause I always have to have it in a build.  It is too good.  It is like Ironwill in old school D and D...It makes your Paladin rock solid when it comes to Will CC.  He is already going to have a high will but on PoTD this seals the deal.  If you see a Will CC effect land a HIT on you after you get this it will be rare.


Edited by Torm51, 14 September 2015 - 08:29 AM.

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#36
Teioh_White

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Yeah, Righteous Soul (and the crazy Devotion  passive)  was pretty much the entire reason I did a Pally play through of ToI/PotD/Ex. After so many play throughs of Eder getting charmed and letting the Huns through the front gate, it was really nice to have a tank that just largely shrugged off any Will save, and I could count on still standing there. (On that note, really wish Pallagina came with, say, level 2 in Devotions for +6 to saves, annoying how I have to be a Pally myself if I want the full Pally experience).

 

And also agree Silver Tide is OP. Especially if making a custom party, if you make the entire team Moon Godlikes, it pretty much removes the risk of losing a ToI play through do to poor planning and getting your back line eaten, or blanking out whatever nasty AoE a caster just did. I think for my next playthrough, it's going to have to go on 'too cheesy to use' list with things like Scrolls, Echo, Amplified Wave, and petrify.



#37
Ymarsakar

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Yeah, Righteous Soul (and the crazy Devotion  passive)  was pretty much the entire reason I did a Pally play through of ToI/PotD/Ex. After so many play throughs of Eder getting charmed and letting the Huns through the front gate, it was really nice to have a tank that just largely shrugged off any Will save, and I could count on still standing there. (On that note, really wish Pallagina came with, say, level 2 in Devotions for +6 to saves, annoying how I have to be a Pally myself if I want the full Pally experience).

 

And also agree Silver Tide is OP. Especially if making a custom party, if you make the entire team Moon Godlikes, it pretty much removes the risk of losing a ToI play through do to poor planning and getting your back line eaten, or blanking out whatever nasty AoE a caster just did. I think for my next playthrough, it's going to have to go on 'too cheesy to use' list with things like Scrolls, Echo, Amplified Wave, and petrify.

 

IE Mod allows Pallegina to get the conviction buff from disposition, customized for any 2 favored or disfavored. No order talents though, those have to be added manually.

 

The way I dealt with the mushrooms was to pull all the mobile adds off screen to Eder and then kill them. Then I would move to the first mushroom and attack it with spells and range (this was back when wizard had horrible spell range and the ranger was broken). The issue was generally that Eder would get mind controlled and then he would run up to the other 4 mushrooms and their adds, drawing them back in. That mushroom cave took a few reloads in the crit path dungeon.

 

For the fampyres and what not, I  alphaed them using mental paralysis and a lot of aquebuses on my casters. Getting hit by 1 blunderbluss +2 arquebuses and some spells, isn't good for their health given their deflection and reflexes were debuffed. It was pretty easy to see who they were trying to charm and pull that character back, thus essentially giving me more time as the fampyre sometimes got stuck in the swarm of undead and took some time to switch targets, and when it did, it sometimes didn't even use the charm any more.


Edited by Ymarsakar, 14 September 2015 - 11:17 AM.


#38
Elthalas

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Strange Mercy might not be that good with your build as with your low DEX you will not get very many killing blows.  Maybe after you get FoD grab Sword and the Shepherd...or line up your FoD alphas for Strange Mercy.

 

 

You might want to take Strange mercy at an early opportunity. At low level the +24 endurance heal is more noticeable and appreciated. Plus if you find it totally lackluster at high levels you can re-spec and get something else.

 

If you are not going with a FoD alpha strike with an arquebus you might get better use out of the Sword and Shepherd talent which gets you a mini AoE heal when you use FoD. That would let you control the heal aspect instead of the more difficult to control heal from the on-kill effect.

 

If you bring Pellegrina along with you you'll have two auras, four lay on hands and other Paladin goodies.

 

The only issue I'm having with my Kind Wayfarer is identifying the Passionate responses. Benevolent is easy, avoiding Deceptive is easy. In my normal runs I end up with a few Cruel and Aggressive, in fact pretty much all over the board.

 

 

If you are going for that more offensive paladin you posted, Elthalas, you really ought to pick up either Weapon Focus: Soldier or Weapon Focus: Knight.

 

The Soldier focus is more generally useful for the paladin you describe, using 1h+sh and 2h interchangeably, but the Knight focus might be more appropriate with the backstory depending on whether you see his father's background as being a feudal knight who joined the Kind Wayfarer's of perhaps, an ex-soldier, or something else entirely.

 

I did have fun writing up that asthmatic giant, though. If I ever do start a third playthrough of the game, perhaps it will be his time to shine.

 

 

 

Talents: I don't know exactly the order yet, but more or less the talent would be:


1. Lay on Hands.
               
 and, in no order:

> Strange Mercy

> Zealous Focus.
 
> Sworn enemy
 
> Flames of Devotion
 
> Intense Flames

> Reviving  Exhortation.
 
> Two-Handed Style

> Liberating Exhortation

> Greater Lay on Hands.

> Inspiring Thriump.

> Deep Faith

> Sacred Immolation.

> Bloody Slaughter.

 
Maybe's: Scion of Flame, Hastening Exhortation, Vulnerable Attack, Interrupting Blows, Weapon & Shield Style, Righteous Soul, Bear's Fortitude.

 

Righteous Soul is extremely valuable for any paladin. I would definitely rank it higher than Deep Faith. Sure, Deep Faith is more widely applicable, but it's a drop in the bucket in comparison. The various types of mind control are widely considered the most annoying/difficult aspects of this game. While a minority of all fights feature them, and many of these can successfully be controlled by CCing the enemy before they can CC you, there will almost certainly be times where you will be very glad if your paladin does get mind controlled but only briefly and can come right back into the action.

 

If you are looking for alternate talents you could drop for Righteous Soul, if you do decide to drop Strange Mercy for Sword and Shepherd and be less concerned about landing the killing blow, keep in mind that you could also safely drop Bloody Slaughter. Bloody Slaughter is not a very big boost to DPS overall, since it applies to such a small endurance range, so is only really worth a talent point if you're trying to trigger on-kill effects. And if you decide not to focus on on-kill effects, you could drop Inspiring Triumph as well.

 

Of course, at this point, your play style would be significantly affected. In the end, especially since you're not playing PoTD, go whichever route you enjoy more. Cheers!

 


I think all you say makes a lot of sense; maybe trying to reach something (killing blows) I can't achieve very well it's a mistake, because it spread my abilities too thin for a not so great reward.
I'm going to reinforce the offensive capabilities, but not necesarily oriented toward the killing blows. Maybe going to take the Interrupting Blows talent to take advantage of my PER, as Elric Says, and some defensive measures to cover my weaknesses, like the righteous soul

So, the final setup is something like this:

1. Lay on Hands.
               
 and, again in no order:

> Two-Handed Style
> Zealous Focus
> Deep Faith
> Flames of Devotion
> Intense Flames
> Weapon Focus: Soldier
> Reviving  Exhortation
> Liberating Exhortation
> Greater Lay on Hands
> Sworn enemy
> Righteous Soul
> Sword and Shepherd
> Sacred Immolation

Maybe's: Scion of Flame, Vulnerable Attack, Interrupting Blows.

I'm not sure if Sword and Shepherd is worth it, and I've my doubts about the efficacy  of Vulnerable Attack/Interrupting Blows, but... well, we'll see.
I think it's not so bad offensive/defensive equilibrium, but probably could use some refinement to make the most of the offensive.
Also, maybe going for Pale Elf in the end :p But still thinking about it, because they explain very little about Pale Elf culture, so it's hard for me to RP a character whose culture I don't know. Even if he was adopted, it makes sense he knows something about his race.

And yes, I like the knight errand feel of the order. And also yes, two-handed combat was probably very different from what we think it was. I knew the videos and it always surprised me how agile you could be in a full plate. Ok, makes sense, because if you can't move you're not a very efficient combatant, but... well, it's hard to assimilite.

 



#39
Ymarsakar

Ymarsakar

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Interrupts just make one enemy waste like 20-50% of their time. It's not really an offensive skill, most of the interrupt you need is bundled up in perception along with the accuracy buffs. Interrupting blows is like a utility talent, except unlike the scion of flame stuff, it doesn't make you do more damage and it doesn't significantly decrease incoming damage either.

 

If you want to interrupt enemies, people with fast attack bows like the Sagani ranger or Wizard's firewall spell, now that's the interrupts.

 

Vulnerable attack is the bread and butter of most melee dps builds, with some exceptions. Weapon focus is another solid one early on for offense. For dual wielding paladin dps

 

Vulnerable attack > Focus/20% attack speed

For two handed weapons

15% damage > focus > Vulnerable attack

 

There's also some pale elfs living in the second city. And whatever your race is, sometimes npcs will comment on it if it is mentioned in their plot lines or arguments. Although Orlans tend to come up more on the negative side. One time the main character who is an Orlan, walked into a bar and asked what game the dart throwers were playing. And they replied "Orlan's Face" because the dartboard is basically the face of an orlan and they would throw knives at it, getting points depending on whether they hit the ear, nose, or eyes. So even if you don't know anything about pale elf culture, you might encounter some lore in game if you pick it.

 

Have fun with the combat tactics in Pillars, it's a good slice of the old school setup from way back. Reminds me a little bit of the xcom tactical difficulties, although very different world settings and physics.


Edited by Ymarsakar, 14 September 2015 - 04:50 PM.


#40
Teioh_White

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I've always actually wondered about Vulnrable Attack, and that -20% speed is factored in. If it's just as it says, a straight you'll be hitting the mob 20% slower, it's a pretty poor talent in a lot of situations. From a pure damage perspective, you average hit will need to do less than 20 damage (including enchant buffs such as lash) to make it even break even. I'm not sure exactly how much lower your average hit would need to be justify the opportunity cost of losing an alternate Talent choice, as well. If that's how it operates, it's certainly not useless, but really only for for fast weapons, early game, or classes with very few multipliers.

 

Early game 2handers, for example, you're just doing 1.0, maybe 1.3 with a fine weapon+2hd style, and few accuracy buffs, so breaking that 20 damage threshold average will be rough. Late game, you'll have that number closer to 2.15, as well as buffed accuracy and often a level advantage over mobs, making Vulnrable attack actually lower your damage. That's also not factoring in the lower chance of per-hit things, like a rangers stunning blow, Tall Grass knockdown (with carnage fun times) or the frisky things the Soulbound weapons.

 

On the other hand, it does just say Attack Speed, and if it doesn't also apply the penalty to recovery frames, it'd change things greatly, making the talent weirdly better suited to a plate mail wearing 2 hander, whose got a massive recovery penalty compared to a fast weapon dual wielder in light armor. For both though, the talent would quickly move into must have range, as the recovery penalty is a much bigger part of the attack speed equation than the actual attack itself. I think it'd be really weird if it works this way, but it's the only way I see Vulnrable attack being a good talent choice for more than a few specific builds, or something taken early and later respec'd out of. (Though treating stuff that way always feels a little cheezy to me.)

 

Also on the note of not having a clue how Vuln. Attack works, what does it apply that -DR too? Would it also apply to say, a Fire Godlike Barbarian tank with Retaliatex2 on? If so, that'd be a lot of extra value from it.


Edited by Teioh_White, 14 September 2015 - 06:52 PM.






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