Alpine Dragon (hard)

[Boeroer]

Scrolls allowed?

[MaxQuest]

Hmm, lets say a maximum of 5 cc-scrolls and maximum of 5 dmg-scrolls are allowed. Other scrolls/potions are unrestricted.

 

I tried 8+ times to bring the dragon down, with priest without scrolls. No luck. I know it's definitely possible, but will be very unreliable.

In the end I used 2 scrolls of Confusion to buy some time for pre-buffing and avoid face-tanking, plus 1 scroll of Valor.

[zeldagaiden]

Confusion might be the way to go since while he's confused I dont need to fear random breath/tail swipes that suddenly kill everyone.

He's imune to paralisis, so that scroll is out. And as I said before, I do use prayer against fear, dragons and banshees all need it to succeed. I do use coordinated atacks on paladin and was using a marking weapon on cipher (the st something pistol out of blackenburry). Am also using strike hard for the disorienting effect and spelltongue on the barbarian. Should I not engage him in melee at all cept with the "tank"? If so, there is kinda no way to flank him cept with figurines...

[Boeroer]

^the approach sounds good so far. lvl 12 might just be a bit too low.

 

I would only engage the dragon in melee when the adds are gone or a lot less. He tends to do wing slams and breath attacks if he can't reach his targets, so it's best to feed him summons or a very sturdy tank in order to prevent that - if you can't keep him in control with charm and/or confusion.

 

@MaxQuest:

Priest should work. Defenses and the ACC is there, so is the damage potential. Shining Beacon + Cleansing Flame or Envenomed Strike + Cleansing Flame, aided by sigil and Storm of Holy Fire.

 

Cipher might be good. It's not that hard to charm the alpine dragon.

 

Monk with Long Pain and high move speed should work, too. He has two summons - distraction can be very valuable. The spirits will give you wounds while not beeing too harmful while you fire away at the dragon with Beast Hunter talent and survival bonus for maxed ACC. TLP have +20 ACC at lvl 16 if I remember correctly.

 

What about wizard's summoned weapons? Blunt Wisdom is strong, so is the Blackbow.

Same with druid's Rot Skulls.

 

If it's allowed to hold a torch, then a chanter could use his healing phrase in order to gain a lot of endurance- and health-healing (first Vet. Recovery + Ancient Memory + Beloved Sp., then via potions) while burning/slashing the dragon with Dragon Thrashed with +12 ACC from single weapon bonus.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Boeroer

[zeldagaiden]

Monk with Long Pain and high move speed should work, too. He has two summons - distraction can be very valuable. The spirits will give you wounds while not beeing too harmful while you fire away at the dragon with Beast Hunter talent and survival bonus for maxed ACC. TLP have +20 ACC at lvl 16 if I remember correctly.

 

*cough* Immune to crush *cough*

Edited February 3, 2017 by zeldagaiden

[Boeroer]

Ach dammit. Forgot about that.

 

That's the problem when you don't actually play the game anymore.

 

They should have made TLP in a way that they fly with extened middle finger, doing pierce/crush damage...

 

Well, maybe it works with Blood Testament's raw lash? Or does this also get blocked completely? Would take forever though...

Edited February 3, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

Currently struggling on beating this bad boy.

Think party is around lvl 12 (mc barb, pala, chanter, cipher, ranger and monk).

Without vancian classes, I would consider one of the following strategies:

v1. Charm/confuse the dragon and let him help you via killing own minions

v2. Or cc his minions; specifically confuse those that are on the other side from you; and paralyze those that are close to you.

 

Finisher:

- when dragon remains the last enemy standing, right before charm expiration (while he has reduced defenses), throw a Fractured Volition to lower his fortitude.

- send one of your frontliners (with highest hp, fortitude and reflex) to solo tank the dragon for awhile.

- while dragon has reduced fortitude try to affect him with Disintegration, Envenomed Strike, Prones or Paralyze Scrolls.

- you can also Eyestrike him, to lower his deflection even further and hence increase your auto-attack damage. But a sensible chunk of damage will came from raw spells and wounding enchants.

 

Priest should work. Defenses and the ACC is there, so is the damage potential. Shining Beacon + Cleansing Flame or Envenomed Strike + Cleansing Flame, aided by sigil and Storm of Holy Fire.

 

Cipher might be good. It's not that hard to charm the alpine dragon.

 

Monk with Long Pain and high move speed should work, too.

- Priest indeed does work.

- Cipher can charm yes, and deal with minions. I think the trick would be to not actually kill all of them, but use as focus batteries, and use the [charm -> disintegration -> re-charm] sequence on the dragon from afar. Other possible trick could be to use Mind Web on a confused/dominated dragon. 

- Monk... will indeed struggle, as pointed by zeldagaiden.

 

If it's allowed to hold a torch, then a chanter could use his healing phrase in order to gain a lot of endurance- and health-healing (first Vet. Recovery + Ancient Memory + Beloved Sp., then via potions) while burning/slashing the dragon with Dragon Thrashed with +12 ACC from single weapon bonus.

Hmm, endurance is not that big of a problem. Potions and Scrolls of Moonwell are usually enough to keep you alive.

Btw, iirc that +12 accuracy bonus is applied only to attacks made with weapon itself, no?

Edited February 3, 2017 by MaxQuest

[zeldagaiden]

Alpine says he's immune to paralyze! Am I missing something cuz everyone keeps saying paralize? Other than this being a convention on dealing with dragons (poor adra and sky drake, tsk tsk)

 

Can't really "save" the adds, they are quite bothersome as well and the charmed dragon takes care of breath/tail on his adds, killing the brunt of it. Can I hit the dragon while he's charmed and it wont turn on me? Or was it dominated?

[MaxQuest]

Am I missing something cuz everyone keeps saying paralize?

You are not missing. It's an error we?, or at least I often do.

There are prone, stun, paralyze and petrify somewhat similar status effects. The idea is to hold him in place, without him hitting you back; and there is no creature, immune to all of these effects.

 

Can I hit the dragon while he's charmed and it wont turn on me?

You can hit him; but he will become hostile.

An often used tactic through is: to charm him with low-costing Whispers of Treason, in order to lower his defenses before applying the real hard-cc, or costly power (like disintegration).

Edited February 3, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Btw, iirc that +12 accuracy bonus is applied only to attacks made with weapon itself, no?

It should, but it works with Dragon Thrashed and also one or two invocations.

[MaxQuest]

It should, but it works with Dragon Thrashed and also one or two invocations.

Weird.

Have checked, and indeed it does increase accuracy of Dragon Thrashed by 12...

Also just in case, have tested if DT would benefit from some weapon enchants, like overbearing. But at least here we are safe.

 

---

Since this is Alpine Dragon thread, probably someone would make use of encounter stats.

So, on PotD, Alpine Dragon has 8 starting minions:

- 2 ice blights, 1 greater ice blight and 2 frost oozes, to the north of him

- 1 greater ice blight, 1 frost ooze and 1 ice blight, to the south.

 

Once you cast something that affects the Dragon himself, or more precisely: when the dragon makes a defensive roll, a few more minions are spawned: 4 spectres, 2 bitter spirits and 1 wraith.

 

The stats of Alpine Dragon and his minions, do not depend on the fact if content is upscaled or not.

Their stats (for PotD) you can find here:

 

 

Alpine Dragon: (Beast) (Total: 1)
- dr: 32 (24 piercing, 16 fire, 40 shock, imm. freeze, imm. crush)
- deflection: 123
- fortitude: 134
- reflex: 134
- will: 118
- acc: 130 (targets deflection; 74-101 crush/pierce)
- endurance: 816
- immunities:
 .- dragon breath
 .- frightened
 .- paralyzed 
 .- stuck
 .- stunned
 .- terrified
 .- unconscious
- bonus resistances:
 .- +20 vs prone
- abilities:
 .- Fear Aura (144 acc vs Will) 
 .- Breath (144 acc vs Reflex) (~crit: 250 freeze)
 .- Wing Storm (154 acc vs Reflex) (~crit: 100 freeze + 25 pierce)
 .- Tail Lash
 .- Finishing Blow
 .- Sneak Attack
 .- Deathblows

Spectre: (Spirit) (Total: 4)
- dr: 10 (5 fire, 20 freeze)
- deflection: 84
- fortitude: 70
- reflex: 84
- will: 93
- acc: 96 (targets deflection; 14-21 freeze)
- endurance: 124
- immunities:
 .- disease
 .- ground
 .- hobbled 
 .- poison
 .- sickened
 .- stuck
- abilities:
 .- Explosive Death (13 graze, 36 crit freeze damage)
 
Bitter Spirit: (Spirit) (Total: 2)
- dr: 0
- deflection: 73
- fortitude: 37
- reflex: 69
- will: 69
- acc: 58 (targets deflection)
- immunities:
 .- disease
 .- ground
 .- hobbled 
 .- poison
 .- prone
 .- sickened
 .- stuck
- abilities:
 .- Invisibility 
 
Wraith: (Spirit) (Total: 1)
- dr: 10 (5 fire, 20 freeze)
- deflection: 87
- fortitude: 73
- reflex: 87
- will: 96
- acc: 84 (targets deflection; 14-21 freeze)
- endurance: 138
- immunities:
 .- disease
 .- ground
 .- hobbled 
 .- poison
 .- prone
 .- sickened
 .- stuck
- abilities:
 .- Abduction
 .- Howl 
  
 
Ice Blight: (Spirit) (Total: 3)
- dr: 10 (5 fire, imm. freeze, imm. crush)
- deflection: 54
- fortitude: 78
- reflex: 54
- will: 50
- acc: 55 (targets deflection; 21-32 crush)
- endurance: 168
- immunities:
 .- disease
 .- hobbled 
 .- poison
 .- prone
 .- sickened
 .- stuck 
 - abilities:
 .- Teleport (through earth)
 .- Hail Storm
 
Greater Ice Blight: (Spirit) (Total: 2)
- dr: 12 (6 fire, imm. freeze, imm. crush)
- deflection: 63
- fortitude: 107
- reflex: 63
- will: 59
- acc: 64 (targets deflection; 32-50 crush)
- endurance: 297
- immunities:
 .- disease
 .- hobbled 
 .- poison
 .- prone
 .- sickened
 .- stuck
 - abilities:
 .- Teleport (through earth)
 .- Icy Spray
 
Frost Ooze: (Primordial) (Total: 3)
- dr: 9 (5 slash, 7 corrode, imm. freeze)
- deflection: 50
- fortitude: 60
- reflex: 50
- will: 72
- acc: 67 (targets deflection; 15-25 freeze)
- endurance: 200
- immunities:
 .- blinded
 .- dazed
 .- frightened 
 .- prone
 .- terrified
- abilities:
 .- Spit (freeze damage)
 .- Explosive Death

 

Bonus: you can find some info on dragon's AI here.

Edited February 25, 2017 by MaxQuest

[MaxQuest]

Finally have tried naked cipher.

 

Have setup the fight. And well, it's certainly possible to slay that lizard with no more than 5 cc-scrolls

 

- video -

 

The problem is to kill the dragon AND his minions without scrolls at all. The best I have achieved so far is kill everyone but two greater ice blights. But without focus... you can do nothing with your bare fists vs crush-immune enemies. (I know the trick is to make dragon kill them, or save focus for Soul Ignitions; but no luck yet)

 

There are also few things make that fight harder than it should be:

- We knew that elemental talents (like Scion of Flame) don't work with DoTs. Unfortunately talents like Beast Slayer also don't work with DoTs (*)

- Envenomed Strike doesn't apply it's raw DoT on crush-immune enemies, if you try to apply it with your fists...

- When you charm someone, part of their endurance is restored. Charming a near-death dragon for 5 times will bring him to barely-injured or even heal him completely. So you can't just chain Whispers of Treason, or you won't have enough focus for damage.

- Second Skin talent doesn't provide any DR bonus if you don't have any armor equipped, i.e. are naked.

- Greater ice blights, seem to be able to end charm effects prematurely.

- I have a feeling that dragon's pathing was improved. I wasn't able so far to make him 'stuck' behind his minions ranks. Without cc, he rushes and reaches you no matter what.

 

* My initial idea was to bring Disintegration to 816 damage, via buffing might, intellect, plus taking beast slayer and fighting spirit. Unfortunately without beast slayer working, and naked, it is not possible. So you have to accompany it with Soul Ignition, or 2nd cast of Disintegration later on.

Edited February 21, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Madscientist]

Is there a way to deal with the dragon peacefully? I think the wiki said that you can finish the quest without fighting him, but you miss some loot of course.

Unfortuanatly the wiki is not always right.

 

1.) If there is a way to talk with dragon and walk away without a fight, how can it be done and what are the stat requirements?

Last time I tried to talk with him with my barbarien (high dex, per, int, others low) and it always ended with fight.

 

2.) If you can talk with him without a fight, does he stay there after the conversation? I know this is cheese but can you attack him after the conversation where you position and buff yourself however you want?

 

I know that Llengrath can be done peacefully (with high int according to wiki). The adra dragon can also be talked with (are there stat requirements?). That means the first archmage in the tower under siege (name forgotten, was in concelhaut?) is the only optional boss you have to kill if you want to finish all quests. Of course you have to kill the bounties.

[Ymiraku]

Alpine dragon wasn't that tough with my priest dual warrior party on potd, had my priest buff my warrior with crowns of faithful and suppress major affliction. Got my dual wield warrior to chug a lengraths displaced image potion then a war paint potion, popped disciplined barrage. Charged dragon, kbed it and went flattened it pretty fast. 

 

Depends on part make up though, but i find anything which increases reflex defense and accuracy is win against dragons. You can get a helmet through stronghold adventures which gives increased resistances against dragon breath attacks which really helps. 

[MaxQuest]

Is there a way to deal with the dragon peacefully? I think the wiki said that you can finish the quest without fighting him, but you miss some loot of course.

Unfortuanatly the wiki is not always right.

 

1.) If there is a way to talk with dragon and walk away without a fight, how can it be done and what are the stat requirements?

Last time I tried to talk with him with my barbarien (high dex, per, int, others low) and it always ended with fight.

You can end the talk peacefully and get Ryona's Vambraces as reward, if you do have 17 resolve and are on "His better half" quest (if it helps it was on "Discover how Ygadr died" stage).

 

There are many stat checks, but majority are optional:

 

[PASSABLE] I just want to look around

[PASSABLE][Per 13] You look ill.

-------------

[PASSABLE] What's the problem exactly?

[OPTIONAL][Per 16]

[OPTIONAL][int 15]

-------------

[REQUIRED] Did you eat Ygadr? The young man by the road?

-------------

[PASSABLE] He came looking for his soul twin. What did that have to do with you?

[PASSABLE] Then why do you look injured? He didn't seem like much of an adversary.

[PASSABLE][int 19] Wait, were you his soul twin?

-------------

[PASSABLE] Wait, you are his soul twin? Why did you kill him?

[PASSABLE] He thought you could ease his suffering.

-------------

Next, next, next

-------------

[PASSABLE] What happened to the hatchlings that survived?

[PASSABLE] I didn't think it was possible to consume the soul of another.

[PASSABLE][Lore 12] I'd heard of rare instances in which soul twins could absorb one another essence.

-------------

[PASSABLE][Rational] I understand. You do what you must to survive.

[PASSABLE] Could you have grown stronger by uniting with your soul twins?

-------------

[PASSABLE][Mig 20] Don't start a fight you can't win dragon.

[FAIL][Per 16] You are still weakened. Save your strength and leave me be.

[PASSABLE][Res 17] Calm down. Friends are more useful than enemies.

[PASSABLE] You'll get nothing from my soul - why don't you focus on on your soul twins?

-------------

[FAIL] I'll spare your life worm.

[PASSABLE] As a watcher, I could sever your connection with your soul twins.

[FAIL] I've gathered plenty of treasure on my travels. I'll give you a share of it.

-------------

[FAIL][Per 12] You are weakened even now. Let me help you.

[FAIL] I mean you no harm.

[sUCCESS][Res 17] Listen to my voice and know I tell the truth - I will help you.

[FAIL] What have you got to lose by trusting me?

 

 

So, only the last check really matters.

 

---

If you can talk with him without a fight, does he stay there after the conversation?

He does stay there after conversation. And if you want you can fight him. But no, you won't get two of vambraces

 

I know this is cheese but can you attack him after the conversation where you position and buff yourself however you want?

What do you mean?

You are out-of-combat and cannot buff yourself (aside from food/resting).

Also, you already could attack him or his minions from anywhere in-range, before triggering the script conversation.

Edited February 21, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Madscientist]

Thanks.

I want to make a  . . . looking for the right word . . . completeonist relative pacifist run. That means I want to finish all quests and I will not avoid battles against trash mobs, but I will try to solve quests in a peaceful way if it is possible with my char ( I want a paladin with high mig, int, res).

 

about the later part:

All options (exept the one you mention) lead to battle as soon as you get close to the dragon. Many battles are easier when you position yourself around a friendly creature, buff yourself and then attack the friendly creature (compared to going to somebody, the conversation ends with combat and you have to start buffing when combat starts.)

 

Does time stand still during conversation? I look espacially at the duration of buffs.

[MaxQuest]

about the later part:

All options (exept the one you mention) lead to battle as soon as you get close to the dragon. Many battles are easier when you position yourself around a friendly creature, buff yourself and then attack the friendly creature (compared to going to somebody, the conversation ends with combat and you have to start buffing when combat starts.)

Well yes.

There is a an invisible trigger zone/rectangle around the dragon. Once a party member steps into it, conversation starts.

You basically have two ways to start combat:

- 1. start conversation. Select attack option / fail check. Combat starts with your triggering character being closer to dragon.

- 2. attack dragon or his minion from afar. Although if you are too far, Dragon won't stop to cast a blind spell, and will rush to you immediately. Sometimes it's even better to not start from a corner.

In any case, you can rest / use food, inside of the cave, right before attacking or triggering conversation. But. You will have to buff yourself / your party during combat.

 

Does time stand still during conversation? I look espacially at the duration of buffs.

Afaik it does.

[JFutral]

Finally have tried naked cipher.

 

Have setup the fight. And well, it's certainly possible to slay that lizard with no more than 5 cc-scrolls

 

- video -

 

That was truly awe inspiring. I am about to force myself to use only three people next time, though I am tempted to jump straight to solo. In some regards I feel like I may do better with at least fewer characters. With six I never truly feel like I ma using each character to their fullest, never mind taking full advantage of food, traps, scroll, and potions. There is just too much to track and for me, quite often, out of sight out of mind.

 

Your Alpine Dragon stats are interesting. I think, to go along with what I wrote above, if none of the encounters are using anything beyond monster stats and abilities, or, wrt kith, only the gear that drops and nothing deviously hidden, then I am truly not using everyone fully. I mean if an encounter is really only armed with mostly basic gear, even when fine or exceptional, and doing THAT much damage to me, I am totally missing or not understanding something.

 

Joe

[MaxQuest]

That was truly awe inspiring. I am about to force myself to use only three people next time, though I am tempted to jump straight to solo. In some regards I feel like I may do better with at least fewer characters. With six I never truly feel like I ma using each character to their fullest, never mind taking full advantage of food, traps, scroll, and potions. There is just too much to track and for me, quite often, out of sight out of mind.

Thanks)

Regarding using character to it's fullest. It helps a lot when only 2-3 are really micro intensive.

I usually have 1-2 low-supervision chars, usually non-dps tanks. Plus 1-2 vancian casters. During trash encounters, I usually manually let them fire 1-2 specific aoes, and after that they are mostly on auto-attack.

 

 

Your Alpine Dragon stats are interesting. I think, to go along with what I wrote above, if none of the encounters are using anything beyond monster stats and abilities, or, wrt kith, only the gear that drops and nothing deviously hidden, then I am truly not using everyone fully. I mean if an encounter is really only armed with mostly basic gear, even when fine or exceptional, and doing THAT much damage to me, I am totally missing or not understanding something.

Enemy abilities can be quite damaging at times... Got deathblow-crit by Tail Lash for 784 dmg once.

The good thing is we have plenty of crowd-control means to turn it against them.