white march news

[Fardragon]

 

is arguably spoilery (yes, we said spoilery) so consider yourself warned.

 

http://nichegamer.com/2015/06/latest-pillars-of-eternity-update-reveals-new-character-details/

 

HA! Good Fun!

Devil sounds a lot less like 'random serial killer' and more about vengeance in that description. 

 

Given the established style of Obsidian writing, I'm surprised that comes as a surprise.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

is arguably spoilery (yes, we said spoilery) so consider yourself warned.

 

http://nichegamer.com/2015/06/latest-pillars-of-eternity-update-reveals-new-character-details/

 

HA! Good Fun!

Devil sounds a lot less like 'random serial killer' and more about vengeance in that description. 

 

Given the established style of Obsidian writing, I'm surprised that comes as a surprise.

 

Yeah I was wondering where people were getting the 'murderous rogue' comments from when they were calling her a cliché, makes more sense now.

[mindswayer]

Are they fixing itemization and the drop system? Soulbound weapons with unique (truly unique) attributes seem a step in the right direction but if every other weapon is just (+10 acc) that's still kinda boring, especially if the soulbound weapons have 100% fixed spawn locations. Hope they diversify itemization on weapons lower than soulbound quality.

[Sannom]

Given the established style of Obsidian writing, I'm surprised that comes as a surprise.

There are a few very loud posters around here who keeps saying that the Devil is a gimmick character, using descriptions such as "Golem-inhabited-by-the-soul-of-a-murderer-and-oh-look-evul-rogue-I'm-evul-look-at-me-oh-I-won't-kill-you-you-are-interesting-to-me". I think some people got from that she was supposed to be some sort of serial killer getting high on killing who also happened to kick puppies in her spare time. So when they read the actual description, they get confused.

[Gromnir]

chis avellone, god rest his soul (we joke 'course as chrisA is not dead but merely departed) observed that the initial character hook were the most important aspect o' character development in a crpg.  we disagree, but am not thinking he were too far off the mark.  the initial hook is not dialogue content alone as visual and voice acting contribute much in a modern crpg.  would hk-47 have been embraced same by folks if the voice actor were different? dunno.  chrisA went to extremes and created rainbow bears, but we suspect that he were justified in his belief that the initial hook were pivotal.  unfortunately, far too often, obsidian companions don't get developed beyond the hook.  fit the entirety o' character development on the back o' a ****tail napkin? there needs be more.  

 

is the initial hook for devil gimmicky?  sure.  so what?  if character is initial intriguing AND gets the development it requires to grow beyond the gimmick, then we approve.  if the gimmick is the entirety o' the character, then we will be disappointed... again.

 

aside:  is not as if chrisA were the only writer who saw importance o' the initial hook. heck, tolkien thought the character name were mostest important aspect o' character development... which explains a few things.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

[Fardragon]

I don't know why people keep going on about HK-47 as an example of how much of a cliche constructs are. He is a droid in a Star Wars game, that's about as surprising as an elf in Genericfantasyland!

 

The "initial hook" thing was more important in ye olden days when there was much less text and VO for each NPC. That's why most of the memorable NPCs in BG1 are as mad as a box of frogs.

[Nakia]

We already have souls bound to objects, The Steward in the Throne, the Head Warden in the statue at the Sanatorium are two examples.  They were not bound by Egwithians but by more modern Eora people.    In certain scripted events the Watcher has the power to bind souls, Maerwald can be bound to the Stronghold as a defense measure.  We have a god who was able to construct a body for himself so we already have a golem god.  A golem is a figure artificially constructed in the form of a human being and endowed with life.  An ancient mythological creature so nothing unique there.  The actual scripting of the character is what will make or break the idea.  Time will tell.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Nakia

[Gromnir]

I don't know why people keep going on about HK-47 as an example of how much of a cliche constructs are. He is a droid in a Star Wars game, that's about as surprising as an elf in Genericfantasyland!

 

The "initial hook" thing was more important in ye olden days when there was much less text and VO for each NPC. That's why most of the memorable NPCs in BG1 are as mad as a box of frogs.

hk were not gimmicky 'cause o' being a droid.  his gimmick were that he were a droid doing the meat-bag schtick.  heck, even Gaider conceded that hk-47 were a shallow character and the rogue assassin droid in marko ragnos' tomb were added to kotor in part 'cause o' what he could not do with hk-47.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited June 26, 2015 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

ranger improvements

 

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3706905&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=560#post447052650

 

rope kid posted:

I'm still working on ranger abilities, but I've made changes to the animal companions already:

 

* All animal companion weapons have 5 DR bypass.

* All animal companion armor gains 2 DR every 3 levels instead of 1.5 every 3 levels.

* They used to gain 3 Accuracy and +15% damage every 3 levels. They now gain 5 Accuracy and +20% damage every 3 levels.

* Faithful Companion was doubled to a +30 bonus vs. Charm/Confuse/Dominate with 5 seconds taken off the duration.

* Resilient Companion now adds 3 DR and an additional point of DR every 3 levels.

* Vicious Companion stacks an additional 3 DR bypass.

 

also, josh observed that there were numerous unforeseen implementation issues in poe that prevented a more robust stronghold feature.  he seemed to think that improvements to the stronghold would come about IF a sequel were developed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Fardragon]

 

I don't know why people keep going on about HK-47 as an example of how much of a cliche constructs are. He is a droid in a Star Wars game, that's about as surprising as an elf in Genericfantasyland!

 

The "initial hook" thing was more important in ye olden days when there was much less text and VO for each NPC. That's why most of the memorable NPCs in BG1 are as mad as a box of frogs.

hk were not gimmicky 'cause o' being a droid.  his gimmick were that he were a droid doing the meat-bag schtick.  heck, even Gaider conceded that hk-47 were a shallow character and the rogue assassin droid in marko ragnos' tomb were added to kotor in part 'cause o' what he could not do with hk-47.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Star Wars was quite deliberately built around archetypical characters, and droid intelligence is pegged at about the level of a smart dog anyway, they are not fully independent beings. HK-47 has the "meat-bag schtick" because it was programmed that way by it's former master, as a joke. It is no more a "gimmick" than Eder's desire to pet furry animals. What you actually have something that is very common in it's setting behaving in a way that is perfectly normal for it's type (i.e. following it's programming).

 

What you actually have is forumites making the assumption that any character made of metal that kills things must, perforce, be the same character.

[Gromnir]

 

 

I don't know why people keep going on about HK-47 as an example of how much of a cliche constructs are. He is a droid in a Star Wars game, that's about as surprising as an elf in Genericfantasyland!

 

The "initial hook" thing was more important in ye olden days when there was much less text and VO for each NPC. That's why most of the memorable NPCs in BG1 are as mad as a box of frogs.

hk were not gimmicky 'cause o' being a droid.  his gimmick were that he were a droid doing the meat-bag schtick.  heck, even Gaider conceded that hk-47 were a shallow character and the rogue assassin droid in marko ragnos' tomb were added to kotor in part 'cause o' what he could not do with hk-47.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Star Wars was quite deliberately built around archetypical characters, and droid intelligence is pegged at about the level of a smart dog anyway, they are not fully independent beings. HK-47 has the "meat-bag schtick" because it was programmed that way by it's former master, as a joke. It is no more a "gimmick" than Eder's desire to pet furry animals. What you actually have something that is very common in it's setting behaving in a way that is perfectly normal for it's type (i.e. following it's programming).

 

What you actually have is forumites making the assumption that any character made of metal that kills things must, perforce, be the same character.

 

the writer o' hk-47 disagreed with you 'bout the gimmick aspect.

 

*shrug*

 

hk-47 were a one-trick pony... a funny reversal o' c-3po.  it were a gimmick, albeit an effective one.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Fardragon]

 

 

 

I don't know why people keep going on about HK-47 as an example of how much of a cliche constructs are. He is a droid in a Star Wars game, that's about as surprising as an elf in Genericfantasyland!

 

The "initial hook" thing was more important in ye olden days when there was much less text and VO for each NPC. That's why most of the memorable NPCs in BG1 are as mad as a box of frogs.

hk were not gimmicky 'cause o' being a droid.  his gimmick were that he were a droid doing the meat-bag schtick.  heck, even Gaider conceded that hk-47 were a shallow character and the rogue assassin droid in marko ragnos' tomb were added to kotor in part 'cause o' what he could not do with hk-47.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Star Wars was quite deliberately built around archetypical characters, and droid intelligence is pegged at about the level of a smart dog anyway, they are not fully independent beings. HK-47 has the "meat-bag schtick" because it was programmed that way by it's former master, as a joke. It is no more a "gimmick" than Eder's desire to pet furry animals. What you actually have something that is very common in it's setting behaving in a way that is perfectly normal for it's type (i.e. following it's programming).

 

What you actually have is forumites making the assumption that any character made of metal that kills things must, perforce, be the same character.

 

the writer o' hk-47 disagreed with you 'bout the gimmick aspect.

 

*shrug*

 

hk-47 were a one-trick pony... a funny reversal o' c-3po.  it were a gimmick, albeit an effective one.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I don't think the writers on either KOTOR fully understood the universe they where writing in.

 

HK-47 is a reversal of C-3PO in the same way that Eder is a reversal of Minsc (by virtue of being sane). Sure, they are very different to each other, but they still operate within the normal ranges for their kind.

 

G0-T0 appears to operate outside of normal droid parameters, but is, in fact, still trying to follow it's programming, just in a way that was unanticipated by it's creators.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Fardragon

[Nakia]

There is nothing wrong with gimmicks if they are interesting in some way or just fun.  IMO no one including the developes should take these games too seriously.

[Gromnir]

There is nothing wrong with gimmicks if they are interesting in some way or just fun.  IMO no one including the developes should take these games too seriously.

agreed

 

 

chis avellone, god rest his soul (we joke 'course as chrisA is not dead but merely departed) observed that the initial character hook were the most important aspect o' character development in a crpg.  we disagree, but am not thinking he were too far off the mark.  the initial hook is not dialogue content alone as visual and voice acting contribute much in a modern crpg.  would hk-47 have been embraced same by folks if the voice actor were different? dunno.  chrisA went to extremes and created rainbow bears, but we suspect that he were justified in his belief that the initial hook were pivotal.  unfortunately, far too often, obsidian companions don't get developed beyond the hook.  fit the entirety o' character development on the back o' a ****tail napkin? there needs be more.  

 

is the initial hook for devil gimmicky?  sure.  so what?  if character is initial intriguing AND gets the development it requires to grow beyond the gimmick, then we approve.  if the gimmick is the entirety o' the character, then we will be disappointed... again.

 

aside:  is not as if chrisA were the only writer who saw importance o' the initial hook. heck, tolkien thought the character name were mostest important aspect o' character development... which explains a few things.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

 

quote self is gauche, but what the heck.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps

 

"I don't think the writers on either KOTOR fully understood the universe they where writing in"

 

sure they did.  it helped that the writers knew exactly what universe they were working with and just how reliant star wars were on the gimmick characters.  

Edited June 27, 2015 by Gromnir

[Sannom]

also, josh observed that there were numerous unforeseen implementation issues in poe that prevented a more robust stronghold feature.  he seemed to think that improvements to the stronghold would come about IF a sequel were developed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

They've apparently just now managed to make special abilities scale with level, so I'm not surprised that they had a number of unforeseen implementation issues.

 

HK-47 is a reversal of C-3PO in the same way that Eder is a reversal of Minsc (by virtue of being sane). Sure, they are very different to each other, but they still operate within the normal ranges for their kind.

Let's be honest here, HK-47 is pretty much C3PO if he was murderous and blood-thirsty, and the contrast and how it played with the Star Wars fan's expectations were pretty much the point. You can't say that about Edér and Minsc. I doubt it comes to the mind of most people to compare them.

 

It was the same thing in the KOTOR comics, the writer built its alien characters on the foundation of them being the complete opposite of the stereotypes associated with their species : a shy Trandoshan nauseated by the hunt, a duo of stupid Ithorians who are also weapon fetishists, a sociopathic Zeltron, etc.

[Fardragon]

The "gimmick" of Star Wars is the characters are pure archetypes, without gimmicks.

[Gromnir]

The "gimmick" of Star Wars is the characters are pure archetypes, without gimmicks.

if you don't understand how that too is a gimmick, then you is missing the point.  the star wars characters do not get or need development.  they exist only on the surface.  as the reader is even unconsciously aware o' the archetype, the author need only develop the character just enough so that the audience can make a connection between the star wars character and the archetype role it fulfills.

 

kotor played with the star wars gimmick by inversion.  frequent we had the archetypes reversed, but the complete reversal made them no less recognizable.  gimmick.  with many kotor characters, the developers offered no more than the gimmick, such as in the case o' hk-47.  the writers were aware o' the gimmick.  they admitted the gimmick which you reject. other characters, such as jolee bindo, were developed more fully.  the thing is, hk-47 were the most popular o' the kotor characters, and other crpg writers took notice o' the popularity o' hk, and dogmeat and other gimmicky characters.  the belief that the initial hook were vital became accepted fact by folks like avellone.  

 

you is resistant to the "gimmick" terminology?  fine. label however you wish.  results is the same.  rainbow bears or snarky assassin droids or construct rogues is having less than subtle initial hook.  is gimmicky, but that ain't a flaw if it is only the start instead o' the totality o' character development.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Rosveen]

How do you define a gimmick, Gromnir?

[Gromnir]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimmick

 

is not complicated

 

HA! Good Fun!

[samm]

 

also, josh observed that there were numerous unforeseen implementation issues in poe that prevented a more robust stronghold feature.  he seemed to think that improvements to the stronghold would come about IF a sequel were developed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

How big is that "IF"? A shame that it won't be implemented for the Addon(s) then, because due to the teaser movie specifically mentioning caed nua, I was hoping to see improvements in at least some aspects of the stronghold.

[EdwinP]

Though I would like to see improvements in the stronghold, the developers have limited resources.  These resources are allocated where they will generate the biggest bang for the investment. Whether that includes the Stronghold I do not know. I do like the strategy of releasing expansion in parts as it gets content into the hands of the player faster. And I do like the report that they are incorporating more cut scenes where the player choice can have a dramatic outcome. I also like the fact that the White March hook is that the PC's reputation has spread far and wide, even to the White March.

[Quillon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIwdM7mW2vo

 

So the guy in this video said the new AI feature will be like dragon age origins' tactics(he actually said FF12, I didn't play it) but it seemed more basic than that in the update preview video; which we choose basic behavior and whether or not to use per rest abilities, I'm confused. Also he said soulbound weapons will be added not just to the expansion but to the whole game, is this true? 

[Sannom]

1) So the guy in this video said the new AI feature will be like dragon age origins' tactics(he actually said FF12, I didn't play it) but it seemed more basic than that in the update preview video; which we choose basic behavior and whether or not to use per rest abilities, I'm confused.

 

2) Also he said soulbound weapons will be added not just to the expansion but to the whole game, is this true? 

I'm pretty sure the guy is wrong about 1), and as for 2), there is no real way to tell. There is nothing stopping the development team from integrating some soulbound weapons in the game's original areas, but I don't know if it would be really practical to do so.

[AndreaColombo]

I think soulbound weapons definitely qualify as "new content" that will only be available through the expansion. It wouldn't super make sense otherwise. Besides, I take it they're supposed to be kinda rare and prized; suddenly scattering them across the whole world would run counter that notion.
 

[Fardragon]

I'm pretty sure the soulbound weapons will be FOUND in the new areas, but can be USED in the original areas.

 

 

The fact that Weapon Focus always applies to Soulbound weapons, even if they are the wrong type, tells us that there won't be soulbound weapons of every weapon type: i.e. they will be few in number, and hence won't be "scattered" anywhere.  Four is sufficient to cover all classes, since each weapon can bind to three.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Fardragon