The third RPGCodex review - the best, most accurate review yet

[PrimeJunta]

Man, Bubbles, you really are an expert troll. You have a quite an eye for what buttons to push.

Edited June 22, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Ohioastro]

It reads well, actually. Posting it in draft form was a jerk move, for sure. But it's a shame to abandon that much work because a lowlife sabotaged it because of his pathological hatred of a game.

[BobbinThreadbare]

I have no interest in discussing the review, and would in fact prefer that this thread be nuked altogether, or, failing that, locked.

 

You shouldn't tell people to "do whatever" with something if you don't want them to do whatever with it.

 

 

Sensuki's just a member though. If it had been just him plus the howler monkeys I would probably have soldiered on. What I couldn't cope with is that what he did is considered perfectly okay. There were a few people going "bitch move bro," far outnumbered by the back-slappers, and the site admin himself giving his imprimatur on it. If something reflects badly on the Codex, it's that, not what some lone sociopath did.

 

90% of thread is about how Infinitron is a shill. You seemed to indicate in your posts in the thread you weren't looking for some kind of showing of moral support, were you expecting it anyways? I think any back-slappery you were seeing was just from drama seekers of which the codex has a lot of.

 

As for "permission", I mean it's a jerk move to leak something when you were asked not to, but it doesn't seem like a bannable offense. I'm sure DU if he did anything just felt like "whatever, feel free to be a jerk if you want".

Edited June 22, 2015 by BobbinThreadbare

[anameforobsidian]

I have no interest in discussing the review, and would in fact prefer that this thread be nuked altogether, or, failing that, locked.

 

That's a shame because it's a damn good review.  The best I've read of Pillars, and just a good review in general.  

 

I would have liked more FP parts, but cest la vie.

Edited June 22, 2015 by anameforobsidian

[View619]

Good review, a shame that it was discontinued because some random, disgruntled player betrayed your trust and decided to post a draft copy. **** the Codex, why not release the final copy on a different forum? I've heard and seen very few good things from that site, anyway.

[Bubbles]

The Codex is utterly vile, but their reviews are great.

[Osvir]

He did ask the site admin (who wasn't in on the convo) for permission first, to make sure he wouldn't get sanctioned I guess. So on the Codex, that unspoken rule clearly does not hold.

 

(I also reviewed Sensuki and matt's essay on the attribute system, and when he asked me to keep mum about it, I did. That's one reason I figured I'd ask him for feedback, to return the favor as it were. Yes, before you ask, I am somewhat bitter.)

 

A) It's a great review! I found it quite informative, and interesting. Too bad felipepe didn't continue with the dialogue, I liked that part, it gave tons of nuance to the review. Was felipepe the only one who wanted to participate in that format?

 

B) Because I saw it was you, it made me more interested in reading it. You've always been cool and level-headed. I kind of knew that it'd be a good read before reading it

 

C) Did I think it was overly postive? Nah. This review feels down to earth, and seems to take more of an observer and analytic point of view moreso than an opinion. Of course, there's an opinion in there, and it's kobviously positive, which is why it is much better in the beginning with the back-and-forth with felipepe. Other than that, the review feels unfinished, because PJ himself saying that he dropped it, and because the "dialogue" just abruptly ends and it becomes a "monologue".

 

D) Maybe something to think about for White March?

Edited June 23, 2015 by Osvir

[PrimeJunta]

@BobbinThreadbare You really don't get it, do you?

 

What killed my interest in completing the review wasn't the Codex bile. That I was prepared to deal with; I've been lurking since 2006 and have seen plenty of it. It was the gross betrayal of trust followed by the official Codex approval of that betrayal ("This very thread is the reason the Codex was founded" -- DU). Again: not only what Sensuki did, but that he did it with the official and continued approval of the Codex administration, that, in fact, pretty much nobody there considers that as anything unusual, just "the Codex being the Codex" and "PJ should've been more careful."

 

That I'm not willing to deal with.

 

Edit: as to banning and such, that never was on the table, was it? Sensuki asked the admins' permission beforehand, to make sure it didn't happen. A simple "Nah, posting a first draft without the author's permission isn't cool, even here" at that point would have done it.

Edited June 23, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[PrimeJunta]

D) Maybe something to think about for White March?

 

Maybe. Know anywhere interested in publishing one?

[Shevek]

@BobbinThreadbare You really don't get it, do you?

 

What killed my interest in completing the review wasn't the Codex bile. That I was prepared to deal with; I've been lurking since 2006 and have seen plenty of it. It was the gross betrayal of trust followed by the official Codex approval of that betrayal ("This very thread is the reason the Codex was founded" -- DU). Again: not only what Sensuki did, but that he did it with the official and continued approval of the Codex administration, that, in fact, pretty much nobody there considers that as anything unusual, just "the Codex being the Codex" and "PJ should've been more careful."

 

That I'm not willing to deal with.

 

Edit: as to banning and such, that never was on the table, was it? Sensuki asked the admins' permission beforehand, to make sure it didn't happen. A simple "Nah, posting a first draft without the author's permission isn't cool, even here" at that point would have done it.

I dont think Codex admin approved. They just let people be jerks if they so choose. That is not the same thing. The Codex is an odd place. They exist to let people speak in fairly unfiltered ways with eachother. You could have easily shut him up and his cadre of fools simply by finishing the review. If you would have ignored the thread, it would have been retardo'd, the review would have been front page material, you would have farmed dozens of brofists and Sensuki would have looked like a chump for trying to stop such an epic review (it really could have been quite good with more comments from FP, some screenies and some editting). 

 

I suppose he deserves this victory though. Seeing as he wasted years of his life trying to force a development company to make a game his way and they largely laughed at him, made snickering remarks around the office about him ("in the Infinity engine games..."), ignored him and put out their title their way to wide critical praise and financial success. In a basement somewhere in the wilds of Australia-land, a sad man has at least salvaged for himself one small shred of dignity in this small and insignificant triumph. 

[Sensuki]

[PrimeJunta]

I'm talking about actions, not speculating on what people thought.

 

Publicly posting a first draft without an author's permission = action.

 

Giving explicit approval of above action before the fact = action.

 

Explicitly showing up to confirm that everything is working as intended = action.

 

Those actions are a betrayal of trust, and explicit and continued approval of the betrayal of trust by the site management. What DU, you, Infinitron, Bubbles or anybody else thinks or says about it is irrelevant. What counts is what you did. And what you did isn't pretty.

 

Bottom line is, I will not be submitting any more content to the Codex, because I can't trust that it won't happen again. I may be naive and trusting, but I'm not that naive or trusting.

[TheisEjsing]

Can't wait to see how Sensuki spins his next defeat at the hands of Brian Fargo. He plans to test TToN like he did PoE, and I wonder if he really expects InXile to find him the least bit less laughable than Obsidian. He is not a developer, not even a QA tester. He is just a dude with seemingly no real life commitments and a pathetic, little man as shown in recent events.

Edited June 23, 2015 by TheisEjsing

[Sensuki]

Are you going to participate in the beta? Should be fun toe-to-toeing with Irenaeus.

 

[Shevek]

PJ:

The best revenge would have been releasing the review. Caving to the troll is not success.

 

TheisEjsing:

I don't think he has much to offer TToN. Thats a text heavy, combat lite, TB game. That is as far removed from BG and IWD as you can get. His insights might have had more impact on Serpents in the Staglands since its RTwP.

[Sensuki]

You can all band together and try and revert my bug reports if you like 

 

I like how you still play the 'didn't listen' card Shevek. What didn't they listen to me about that would have made any difference to my enjoyment of the game [taking into account the IE Mod] ?

[TheisEjsing]

You know man.. It's really abit sad. You can rationalize it, you can post all your little gimmicks, and make your smilies all you want. At the end of the day, you made a **** move. Atleast you have stripped yourself of all pretence.

It's too bad you didn't like the game, you backed and worked on, but give it a rest man.

[PrimeJunta]

The best revenge would have been releasing the review. Caving to the troll is not success.

 

I'm not interested in revenge. I'm disgusted, bitter, and hate the idea of even looking at that text.

 

Is there something I want? Yeah, actually, there is. It's completely unrealistic of course but it's there. I want the Codex to draw a line: to acknowledge that publishing a draft without the author's permission is not kosher and declare that it won't happen again. Despite everything I think the Codex does have something of unique value to offer, and I don't think completely unrestricted asshattery is it.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

He plans to test TToN like he did PoE

 

*shudder*

 

"But the combat isn't rewarding!"

"IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REWARDING YOU PONCE"

[Shevek]

 

 

The best revenge would have been releasing the review. Caving to the troll is not success.

 

I'm not interested in revenge. I'm disgusted, bitter, and hate the idea of even looking at that text.

 

Is there something I want? Yeah, actually, there is. It's completely unrealistic of course but it's there. I want the Codex to draw a line: to acknowledge that publishing a draft without the author's permission is not kosher and declare that it won't happen again. Despite everything I think the Codex does have something of unique value to offer, and I don't think completely unrestricted asshattery is it.

 

Sadly, that unique outlook the Codex brings (along with the well informed opinions, etc) is in part due to the asshattery. Folks are constantly testing eachother there and that leads to the sharpening of their salient points. While I agree that Sensuki's actions were pretty low by any standard, admin can't really punish stuff like that because then it would cease to be the Codex (slippery slope, etc). The only way to punish Sensuki, would have been to do so yourself. They self-police there. By putting out your review, you show him to be an ass and you gain enough respect to further berate his antics at your leisure. Caving to this sort of thing legitimizes it, fosters further such actions and promotes that completely unrestricted asshattery that you hate so much.

 

But, well, we are talking in circles now. I will just say, that if you want a rpg site that is carefully moderated, there are sites like that in abundance around the net. But that just isnt the Codex.

[PrimeJunta]

False dichotomy. The Codex sanctions all kinds of stuff, that's what Prosperland and Retardo Land are for. It's not like "complete anarchy" and "carefully moderated" are the only options.

 

Edit: but as I said, unrealistic. In any case, I'm not willing to play by those rules, so I'm taking my ball and going home. So nyah.

Edited June 23, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Shevek]

Again, that thread would have been retardo'd in time (probably as soon as you published the review). Its a war of wills there at times. Its one you would have easily won with FP as coauthor and the strength of the text you wrote. You dropping the review put the kibosh on that.

[Sensuki]

You know man.. It's really abit sad. You can rationalize it, you can post all your little gimmicks, and make your smilies all you want. At the end of the day, you made a **** move. Atleast you have stripped yourself of all pretence.

It's too bad you didn't like the game, you backed and worked on, but give it a rest man.

I took a stand based on the quality of Codexian content (which has become a controversial topic as of late), which was backed by some of the staff members (including one who was also privy to the PM until he ejected from it) and many of the forum members. I did so with the consultation of around 15 other Codexers. As a result, we got Vault Dweller and Grunker's (partial) review which offers a more measured outlook and doesn't give a free pass on various obvious faults with the game, and does not serve as an advertisement or propaganda piece. I'm content with the outcome (and the fallout) and I've never been afraid to be in the line of fire.

 

As to publishing the review Shevek - go right ahead. I wanted to expose what you guys were doing, TBH I was actually surprised that it was not published.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Sensuki

[Infinitron]

I'm going by what he said. He said he got permission from DU and VoD. DU did not contradict this in his appearance in the thread.

 

As I suspected, it was not DU: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-shill-brigade-pillars-of-eternity-propaganda-review.100012/page-26#post-3987288

 

Both DarkUnderlord and Vault Dweller waded into that thread to defend you. On the Codex, it doesn't get much better than that.

 

EDIT: Ah, speak of the devil.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Infinitron

[PrimeJunta]

Again, that thread would have been retardo'd in time (probably as soon as you published the review). Its a war of wills there at times. Its one you would have easily won with FP as coauthor and the strength of the text you wrote. You dropping the review put the kibosh on that.

 

Jeez, you really don't get it either, do you.

 

I'm not interested in fighting that war. I simply do not want to play with those rules.