Multi-Classing talents!?

[Namutree]

Holy friggin' crap! This is awesome news!!! I'm super happy this is going to be in the expansion!!! :)

 

Anyway, I wonder how this will affect game balance and what class features we can get from classes like the Ranger. Anyone have any theories, ideas, or concerns?

[Gromnir]

mostly a repost from the expansion thread, but our current observations on the issue is...

 

"fighter is an obvious class for Gromnir to be considering the benefits of the off-class talents. particularly when we play eder as a dps fighter, we run outta abilities and talents that we is genuine interested in taking.  some kinda mini sneak attack option would be something to consider for one o' those last couple slots as we most often use such a choice on a utility feat that, while useful, is sorta a compromise pick.  our paladins, on the other hand, is less likely to run outta useful choices.  our ranged/support paladins, particularly the gunners, has more than enough choices to utilize all talent opportunities. a tank paladin has gotta use multiple talents as it is to make 'em viable tanks comparable to fighters.

 

"chanter-specific talents is currently limited and kinda lame.  perhaps we would consider playing a chanter as something other than a secondary tank once we get a looksee at the options. maybe"

 

am also gonna note that our poe druids often load up on the elemental talents mostly 'cause we can't think o' any better way to spend 'em.  

 

'course any relevant discussion w/o seeing what are the actual options for off-class talents makes this a wonderfully pointless thought experiment... like killing schrödinger's cat. can a tank choose to acquire a mage arcane veil? hell, we suspect the folks who play the low constitution and unarmoured rogues might be even more curious 'bout an arcane veil talent... but only if it gives meaningful benefit.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps  am gonna note our initial disappointment with the off-class talents idea.  instead o' coming up with new and unique ways to improve talent choices for classes, obsidian will simple use already existing abilities and talents to pad the existing talent lists.  feels like bloat.  however, we will need to see the talents and how they actual improve classes.  

Edited June 19, 2015 by Gromnir

[Elzarath]

I like the idea of the multi-class talents. Maybe adding some rogue type talents to a fighter or paladin would help increase the usefulness of other abilities such as sneak. Wish Chanter had more than 2 talents though.

[AndreaColombo]

Armored Grace for every class—yay!!

[MadDemiurg]

From what I gathered there's going to be only 1 multiclass talent per class, which would be a weaker version of the "main" ability of the class. Obviously some classes (spellcasters and classes like monk) have no "main" ability, so it becomes more vague for them.

 

Confirmed abilities:

Multi class rogue - Weak sneak attack. I'd expect smth like Skaen priest SA (20%). If it would stack with Skaen priest ability (most likely) priests would be able to get 40% SA with 2 talents.

Multi class cipher - A charm spell. Most likely single target and with per rest limit.

 

Speculations:

Fighter - Minor constant recovery (smth like 1 endurance regen).

Monk - Improved unarmed damage? Or smth like per rest swift strikes.

Paladin - Faith and conviction is the "main ability", however non paladin classes have no favoured dispositions (except priest, but I doubt there will be a special case for them). Maybe smth like a static boost for defences , on the level of deep faith talent or a weaker FoD/LoH.

Barb - minor carnage? can easily be OP. To be balanced should be a either a per rest ability (then it can be a full power carnage) or some static damage aoe like wizard's blast.

Ranger - Per rest call animal (basically a figurine talent).

Chanter - no idea, probably some kind of aura.

Wizard - some per rest or per encounter aoe spell, possibly with some minor debuff like daze.

Priest - per rest or per encounter aoe heal.

Druid - either some kind of per rest/per encounter aoe or a per rest shapeshift (with the current state of shapeshift would be a joke talent)

 

Overall my predictions are that barb, rogue and possibly paladin multiclasses are likely going to be most useful, and caster multiclasses are going to be quite bad, but we'll see.

Edited June 19, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Fardragon]

Carnage and Sneak Attack are both difficult to not make overpowered on melee DPS, even in much weaker versions.

 

Could go with Flames of Devotion from paladins.

 

Wizard, Priest, Druid and Cypher are easy: could just have a first level spell usable once per day. I would like to see other classes given access to Blast though.

 

Chanter is difficult. You probably would have to go with one of the first level chants as a continuous aura.

[Gromnir]

Carnage and Sneak Attack are both difficult to not make overpowered on melee DPS, even in much weaker versions.

 

 

am admitting that Gromnir is curious 'bout implementation o' those two abilities as feats.  carnage-lite on a rogue is likely unnecessary, though is possible that we do not have carnage available as it weren't specific mentioned. fighters is an underrated dps class that we frequent run outta essential talents with which to customize.  this would make fighters a prime candidate for off-class talents in our playing o' poe.  somehow add both a sneak-attack and carnage to a dps fighter?  our off-tank monk builds already do excellent dps.  give'em sneaky attacks strikes us as potential unbalancing.  am admitting that am curious as to how we might build a high intelligence dps monk to exploit a carnage ability, but am similarly recognizing that such is not needed and possibly unbalancing.

 

regardless, the most powerful off-class talent combis is unlikely to be stuff we can predict.  due to an unanticipated application o' abilities, spells and talents, there will be a couple ridiculous overpowered builds that emerge with the expansion-- is inevitable.  the thing is, sneak and carnage is obvious, so we suspect that the obsinaties is work to make sure that those talents ain't gonna be exploited... at least not in any predictable way.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Fardragon]

Rogue: Riposte+Carnage?

 

Or Barbarian, for that matter, in the unlikely event that Riposte is made an off-class ability.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Fardragon

[FlintlockJazz]

Think they should call it 'Cross-Classing' rather than multi-classing, since you aren't actually taking a second or third class but rather taking skills from them. 

[MadDemiurg]

Updating confirmed talents:

 

Rogue - sneak attack

Cipher - whisper of treason

Chanter - skeleton summon

Fighter - constant recovery

Paladin - zealous focus

Barbarian - frenzy

 

All likely (much) weaker than the original.

 

Also Eder in one of the expansion vids has 1 use of call lightning and overwhelming wave. One or both of these can be spellbinds or alternatively casters have multiple multiclass talents that include higher level spells later on? Anyway, there's a probability that druid multiclass is Call Lighting, most likely 1/rest. Devil of Caroc has 2 uses of nature's mark, which is more likely to be a spellbind, but can be a druid multiclass talent as well...

Edited June 25, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[AndreaColombo]

Fighter's is constant recovery?

 

What a wasted opportunity. I wanted Armored Grace; the very reason why my every protagonist is a Fighter.

[View619]

Fighter's is constant recovery?

 

What a wasted opportunity. I wanted Armored Grace; the very reason why my every protagonist is a Fighter.

 

Well the biggest draw of a fighter is its staying power on the front lines, so Constant Recovery is a no-brainer. The spell casters should be the most challenging; chanters providing vanilla Summon Skeleton should be good enough and allows all casters to have some access to a summon spell.

Edited June 25, 2015 by View619

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Fighter's is constant recovery?

 

What a wasted opportunity. I wanted Armored Grace; the very reason why my every protagonist is a Fighter.

 

Well the biggest draw of a fighter is its staying power on the front lines, so Constant Recovery is a no-brainer. The spell casters should be the most challenging; chanters providing vanilla Summon Skeleton should be good enough and allows all casters to have some access to a summon spell.

 

Yeah I'm not sure why anyone would want armoured grace over constant recovery unless you had to always wear heavy armour for some reason.

Edited June 25, 2015 by FlintlockJazz

[AndreaColombo]

I wear it because it looks good (and does constant recovery really make a difference in combat? I can barely tell it's even there.)

[View619]

I wear it because it looks good (and does constant recovery really make a difference in combat? I can barely tell it's even there.)

 

It's definitely noticeable in non-trivial fights. Fighters healing damage automatically is pretty huge, also makes fighters not focusing on max deflection reasonable.

 

If you're really worried about the recovery of armour (non-fighter) then you need either higher dexterity or lighter armour, not armoured grace.

Edited June 25, 2015 by View619