The state of Chanters

[Remix]

It would make more sense if, for example, only two spells were allowed per encounter and the remaining total were considered per rest. I don't know how easy that is to implement from a programming point of view, however.

[Torm51]

It would make more sense if, for example, only two spells were allowed per encounter and the remaining total were considered per rest. I don't know how easy that is to implement from a programming point of view, however.

Pretty sure that's what they intend to do.

[Nobear]

So, now that it is said in another thread that per encounter spells are going to be completely changed, we can now speak about reasonable changes to chanter class.

 

 

 

It would make more sense if, for example, only two spells were allowed per encounter and the remaining total were considered per rest. I don't know how easy that is to implement from a programming point of view, however.

Pretty sure that's what they intend to do.

 

Wut? Where's this other thread? Link please.

[Sabotin]

I feel chanters are less than ideal due to the lack of control over their abilities. Their repertoire of buffs is small and it's exceedingly difficult to foresee at what time you would benefit from a certain phrase, leading to the use of the more "always good" types.

 

What I'd propose is to enhance this aspect a bit. I'd make the buffs smaller in power, perhaps weaker version of priest spells; 2DR, -10%/-1s charm duration, +5 accuracy, etc. In addition I'd make the buffs an infinite duration, but removed when you use a shout (or start a different chant). Then you get a more of a "make your own buff" type thing. You can use the number of stacked buffs as a limiting factor, perhaps increasing as you level. This way the chanter would always have 1 phrase active with more activating over time, but be allowed to choose whether to keep the stacked buffs or use a shout and restart the climb so to speak.

 

I think like this the player would be more able to adapt chants to the flow of the battle, or use the situational ones against certain enemy types. For example you could have defensive phrases in a bunch at the start to counter the enemies starting powerful abilities, then use a paralysing shout and switch to offensive phrases to capitalize on it.

 

Another Idea I've been toying with in my head: phrase combos. Making a chant with phrases from the same story could have some additional effect or even influence the function of a certain shout.

 

And the thing that most disappointed me regarding chanters: no story connection. I was hoping for something like in PS:T, where you could find spells flavoured with the location they are found or somehow connected with the enemy you get them from. There could be some Od-Nua flavored chants dispersed there for example. Even the quest where you actually go specifically look for some writing for Kana, doesn't give you anything...

[Killyox]

I dont' ever use chanters. they are too slow and thus they have close to 0 impact on the fight. By the time chanter can use anything fight is already over.

 

They need to redesign/overhaul them and make them faster. Right now it's meh. I recently started playing BG2 and NWN2 again (both at the same time ) and made a bard in nwn2 since I never play bards and it's far better than what chanter does (3,5e nwn2 one because bg2 one sucks).

 

Would like to play more with the class but atm it's boring and slow.

[MunoValente]

I dont' ever use chanters. they are too slow and thus they have close to 0 impact on the fight. By the time chanter can use anything fight is already over.

 

I use chanters because they are fast.  Their first chant happens immediately without using an action, so they can do something else as their first action; each additional phrase also happens without using an action.  The key for me to make them most useful is to make sure to find ways for them to have something else to do while the chants are going, whether it be tanking, summon items,  scroll casting, spell bound items like rotfinger gloves, abilities like Envenomed Strike or whatever.  

 

Invocations are slow, but I mostly see them as a bonus, and not a particularly important part of how I play them.

[jsaving]

I see two main problems with chanters.  First, they don't "earn" their invocations through combat performance but instead get them through the simple passage of time, which encourages parties to "cower-and-run" after triggering aggro until enough ticks of the clock go by.  Second, higher-level invocations generally aren't worth using, making leveling-up an anticlimactic exercise once you're able to summon phantoms. 

[MunoValente]

I see two main problems with chanters.  First, they don't "earn" their invocations through combat performance but instead get them through the simple passage of time, which encourages parties to "cower-and-run" after triggering aggro until enough ticks of the clock go by.  Second, higher-level invocations generally aren't worth using, making leveling-up an anticlimactic exercise once you're able to summon phantoms. 

 

I agree, a lot of the higher invocations are really unimpressive, I really only use summon phantom, paralyze cone and summon ogres.

 

Rather than cower and hide though, I usually set my chanter up as tanky as possible, usually they have the highest deflection in my group.  Someone needs to fill the role of front and center meat shield, might as well be the guy whose class abilities are just as fast and just as good even in the biggest armor and shield possible.

 

I'd really like to see some higher level phrases that are short duration and some high level invocations that need less phrases, I don't they need to be so uniform.

 

I'd also like to see better options for ranged chanters, considering Kana starts with a gun and stormcaller works with chanters, I just don't see many options that make ranger chanters good, they basically the get one phrase for it, but using ranged weapons moves you further away from the enemies, so you attacking/debuff phrases aren't as good, so it doesn't seem worth the trade off.

[Teioh_White]

Chanter right now is carried pretty heavily by it's Flame Lash incantation. Giving the other 5 members 25% damage boost post mods is almost worth the cost of admission alone. Chanters add on to that one other Chant, which isn't quite as good as it'll come out 8 seconds later, and none of the other chants have that 'Wow' factor of the Flame Lash chant.

 

Next chanters add a generic body that can do whatever, with the only constraint really being it has to have high Int. Other than that, can slap on Plate and a Shield, and have someone to seal the edge, put a ranged weapon for a little pew pew, whatever gives a little contribution. Probably the best person to use all those scrolls one finds lying around, as the only other thing they have to speed actions on is auto attacking, so that's sorta a plus.

 

The Invocations are currently the Chanters smallest contribution, which is a bit sad, seeing as it's one of their unique mechanics. The issue is A.) they take forever to come out and B.) Need a good 20 seconds or to get value (nice summons or group buffs), means the number of fights a Chanter both gets to use an Invocation, and the fight has enough time left in it the Invocation will do something, are pretty rare. Most of the time, the Chanter will just be stunning some trash at the end of fight for easier clean up time.

 

Though, that is only really end game. Early game, Invocations are quite powerful, and Act 1 Chanter is likely one of the strongest classes in the game. Pumping out Specters every 12 seconds is pretty powerful alone in those smaller encounters of early game, and no one else really has cool toys yet. Chanters toys just really don't evolve well with the times. It starts getting bad in Act 2 chanter, where unless it's a ranged heavy party, they lose ground fast. Act 3 and 4 Chanter it's all good, as Flame Lash is amazing, but just shows how much the class leans on just one ability.

[Boeroer]

Chanter as a tank is great! Scout fourth using move speed and frost trap chant, shoot an alpha at the enemy, run back to your party so all enemies get hobbled and then let the rogues finish them off. A Chanter tank with the aoe fire/slash hazard is also nice together with a Paladin that uses Sacred Immolation. They kill all the mobs really fast by just standing around. But you're right: the invocations I rarely use.