Don't Read to Your Children

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Except that IS the basic premise of the author of the article. Moreover, the asshat in the interview feels conflicted about coming up with the justification for the family. The idea of justifying something that gives someone an advantage over others actually causes him mental conflict.

 

Actually, no. "Conflict" is only mentioned in the text once.

 

 

 

 Swift in particular has been conflicted for some time over the curious situation that arises when a parent wants to do the best for her child but in the process makes the playing field for others even more lopsided.

 

I see nothing inherently wrong in being conflicted over that. It's not the same as "being conflicted about coming up with justification for the family".

 

Basically you find it objectionable that people exist who dare to think about whether the way we're doing things is optimal or not, regardless of what conclusion they arrive on. Congratulations, you have (re-)invented thoughtcrime.

Edited May 10, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Namutree]

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die.  It's like a prerequisite.  Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

[JadedWolf]

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die.  It's like a prerequisite.  Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

 

 

Well, there goes the bible then...

 

Seriously. My mother grew up catholic, and although we weren't baptized and we never went to church (and my dad didn't believe in anything), she would read us from this special "children's bible", which -despite being for children- was still filled with the most gruesome stories of murder and destruction from the Old Testament. She stopped reading them to us after a while when she noticed that they really weren't that child friendly.

Edited May 10, 2015 by JadedWolf

[Namutree]

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die.  It's like a prerequisite.  Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

 

 

Well, there goes the bible then...

 

The Bible certainly is not for kids.

[Malcador]

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?

 

Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

[Elerond]

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?

 

Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

 

 

In my opinion Treasure Island for example is good book for all the people over 8 years old, even with all the killings that book has.

[JadedWolf]

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?

 

Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

 

 

Honestly, at eleven, twelve, I was reading things like Stephen King's It, Herbert's Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc. Nobody was reading me anything anymore.

 

If your child is that age and still depends on you for reading to them, there's something wrong.

Edited May 10, 2015 by JadedWolf

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?

 

Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

 

 

Honestly, at eleven, twelve, I was reading things like Stephen King's It, Herbert's Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc. Nobody was reading me anything anymore.

 

If your child is that age and still depends on you for reading to them, there's something wrong.

 

 

Reading Dune at 11 might be boring to some considering the political intrigues, but reading It at the same age left you with a weird feeling because of what the children had to do to become adults. Sure it was more of survival pact between friends, but still the innocence of childhood had gone when i read it at the same age.

[Hurlshort]

I made it as far as the scene where the kid gets his arm ripped off by a clown in a sewer.  I don't think there is any age where IT is not disturbing.  

[Namutree]

I don't think there is any age where IT is not disturbing.  

Especially around the end after they defeated IT as kids. The proceeding scene with Beverly and the gang is quite screwed up. I wonder why Stephen King even had that scene in the book.

[JadedWolf]

 

 

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?

 

Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

 

 

Honestly, at eleven, twelve, I was reading things like Stephen King's It, Herbert's Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc. Nobody was reading me anything anymore.

 

If your child is that age and still depends on you for reading to them, there's something wrong.

 

 

Reading Dune at 11 might be boring to some considering the political intrigues, but reading It at the same age left you with a weird feeling because of what the children had to do to become adults. Sure it was more of survival pact between friends, but still the innocence of childhood had gone when i read it at the same age.

 

 

Yeah, It really is a great book for a younger audience, if you ask me, with the whole coming of age experience. Also, I could personally relate to the bunch as I wasn't exactly part of the popular crowd myself.

 

My first Stephen King's book was The Eyes of the Dragon, which was actually intended for children. A young prince sent to prison (albeit a luxurious one, he gets his own penthouse tower suite) for the murder of his father, while his younger brother (who as a hobby stones stray dogs to death) knows of his innocence -since he saw with his own eyes how the court wizard poisoned his father- but is not saying anything out of envy. You know, typical kids stuff. :D

 

One of my favourite real children's book series is The Chronicles of Prydain (what the Disney movie The Black Cauldron is based on). If you've got children in that age bracket, I highly recommend it. It's actually quite a thoughtful series. One of the books actually deals entirely with Taran's trying to find who he is, with him trying out different apprenticeships, meeting common folk and generally growing more adult while still somewhat lost as to what he's supposed to do with his life. Also, it doesn't shy away from showing that something good people do die in war, and that it's often the common folk who would rather have just lived a quiet life that tend to do so.

Edited May 10, 2015 by JadedWolf

[Namutree]

 

One of my favourite real children's book series is The Chronicles of Prydain (what the Disney movie The Black Cauldron is based on). If you've got children in that age bracket, I highly recommend it. It's actually quite a thoughtful series. One of the books actually deals entirely with Taran's trying to find who he is, with him trying out different apprenticeships, meeting common folk and generally growing more adult while still somewhat lost as to what he's supposed to do with his life. Also, it doesn't shy away from showing that something good people do die in war, and that it's often the common folk who would rather have just lived a quiet life that tend to do so.

 

I read those too. I didn't like the first or final one, but the other three were pretty good.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

 Honestly, at eleven, twelve, I was reading things like Stephen King's It, Herbert's Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc. Nobody was reading me anything anymore. If your child is that age and still depends on you for reading to them, there's something wrong.

 Reading Dune at 11 might be boring to some considering the political intrigues, but reading It at the same age left you with a weird feeling because of what the children had to do to become adults. Sure it was more of survival pact between friends, but still the innocence of childhood had gone when i read it at the same age.

I saw the filmed IT before reading the novel at 11 or 12, and remember being freaked out quite a bit by the more brutal nature of IT and the other stuff(rereading it now actually, and catching a lot more "mystical" stuff I missed before). About a month later I dropped my keys down a storm drain(like what Pennywise was in when Georgie encountered it) and was scared that IT would get me while I was down there getting them back.

 

Still haven't read Dune though, should really get around to that sometime.

[Malcador]

I wonder why people say Dune is boring, old coworker once said that it was that way due to lots of dialogue. I first read that at 14 and it was fun (yay for SMAC mentioning it in the manual )

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

 Honestly, at eleven, twelve, I was reading things like Stephen King's It, Herbert's Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc. Nobody was reading me anything anymore. If your child is that age and still depends on you for reading to them, there's something wrong.

 Reading Dune at 11 might be boring to some considering the political intrigues, but reading It at the same age left you with a weird feeling because of what the children had to do to become adults. Sure it was more of survival pact between friends, but still the innocence of childhood had gone when i read it at the same age.

I saw the filmed IT before reading the novel at 11 or 12, and remember being freaked out quite a bit by the more brutal nature of IT and the other stuff(rereading it now actually, and catching a lot more "mystical" stuff I missed before). About a month later I dropped my keys down a storm drain(like what Pennywise was in when Georgie encountered it) and was scared that IT would get me while I was down there getting them back.

 

Still haven't read Dune though, should really get around to that sometime.

 

 

1. Give Prophecy Theme a listen

 

 

- After listning, are you now feeling that tingle of mystique? Something greater than just a standard sci-fi? Maybe even something trancendental? Good, then follow the next step.

 

2. Watch Dune - Alternative Edition Redux [fanedit]

- It is the version that actually makes sense. Avoid any other.

- Realize that this is really a flawed jem. It's pretty much the best hero's journey that you can find with themes of destiny, precience and overcoming oneself.

 

3. Read the book.

- Your life is now complete.

 

(I only read four first books of Dune due to SPOILER:

book five making a 1500 year time-skip after the death of the major Atreides characters

)  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't think of many good children's stories where someone doesn't die. It's like a prerequisite. Old Yeller still makes me tear up.

Dying is fine, but I wouldn't include killing in a child's story, but then again, I'm no author.

 

Well given the age range, why not? Child is everything up to 12, no?Depends on how the killing is done, how it fits in the story. Heh the Animal Farm film was ok, up to the ending which was needless.

 

 Honestly, at eleven, twelve, I was reading things like Stephen King's It, Herbert's Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc. Nobody was reading me anything anymore. If your child is that age and still depends on you for reading to them, there's something wrong.

 

 Reading Dune at 11 might be boring to some considering the political intrigues, but reading It at the same age left you with a weird feeling because of what the children had to do to become adults. Sure it was more of survival pact between friends, but still the innocence of childhood had gone when i read it at the same age.

 

I saw the filmed IT before reading the novel at 11 or 12, and remember being freaked out quite a bit by the more brutal nature of IT and the other stuff(rereading it now actually, and catching a lot more "mystical" stuff I missed before). About a month later I dropped my keys down a storm drain(like what Pennywise was in when Georgie encountered it) and was scared that IT would get me while I was down there getting them back.

 

Still haven't read Dune though, should really get around to that sometime.

 

 

1. Give Prophecy Theme a listen

 

 

- After listning, are you now feeling that tingle of mystique? Something greater than just a standard sci-fi? Maybe even something trancendental? Good, then follow the next step.

 

2. Watch Dune - Alternative Edition Redux [fanedit]

- It is the version that actually makes sense. Avoid any other.

- Realize that this is really a flawed jem. It's pretty much the best hero's journey that you can find with themes of destiny, precience and overcoming oneself.

 

3. Read the book.

- Your life is now complete.

 

(I only read four first books of Dune due to SPOILER:

book five making a 1500 year time-skip after the death of the major Atreides characters

)

 

I've got my last final on Tuesday, but I'll give this a try when I sober up afterwards.

[JadedWolf]

1. Give Prophecy Theme a listen

 

 

- After listning, are you now feeling that tingle of mystique? Something greater than just a standard sci-fi? Maybe even something trancendental? Good, then follow the next step.

 

2. Watch Dune - Alternative Edition Redux [fanedit]

- It is the version that actually makes sense. Avoid any other.

- Realize that this is really a flawed jem. It's pretty much the best hero's journey that you can find with themes of destiny, precience and overcoming oneself.

 

3. Read the book.

- Your life is now complete.

 

(I only read four first books of Dune due to SPOILER:

book five making a 1500 year time-skip after the death of the major Atreides characters

)  

 

 

My personal advice: skip step 2.

 

Reasons: heartplugs, weirding modules, bat**** crazy baron Harkonnen.

Edited May 10, 2015 by JadedWolf

[Meshugger]

 

1. Give Prophecy Theme a listen

 

 

- After listning, are you now feeling that tingle of mystique? Something greater than just a standard sci-fi? Maybe even something trancendental? Good, then follow the next step.

 

2. Watch Dune - Alternative Edition Redux [fanedit]

- It is the version that actually makes sense. Avoid any other.

- Realize that this is really a flawed jem. It's pretty much the best hero's journey that you can find with themes of destiny, precience and overcoming oneself.

 

3. Read the book.

- Your life is now complete.

 

(I only read four first books of Dune due to SPOILER:

book five making a 1500 year time-skip after the death of the major Atreides characters

)  

 

 

My personal advice: skip step 2.

 

 

Nah, the atmosphere and set pieces are awesome

 

Keep in mind that the "Alternative Edition Redux" is only available through download on the 'net as it is not an official release. Just google it and do not feel bad for dowloading it since it falls under as an educational piece.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

1. Give Prophecy Theme a listen

 

 

- After listning, are you now feeling that tingle of mystique? Something greater than just a standard sci-fi? Maybe even something trancendental? Good, then follow the next step.

 

2. Watch Dune - Alternative Edition Redux [fanedit]

- It is the version that actually makes sense. Avoid any other.

- Realize that this is really a flawed jem. It's pretty much the best hero's journey that you can find with themes of destiny, precience and overcoming oneself.

 

3. Read the book.

- Your life is now complete.

 

(I only read four first books of Dune due to SPOILER:

book five making a 1500 year time-skip after the death of the major Atreides characters

)

 

My personal advice: skip step 2.

 

 

Nah, the atmosphere and set pieces are awesome

 

Keep in mind that the "Alternative Edition Redux" is only available through download on the 'net as it is not an official release. Just google it and do not feel bad for dowloading it since it falls under as an educational piece.

 

 

I don't feel bad about downloading anything for free

 

[JadedWolf]

 

 

1. Give Prophecy Theme a listen

 

 

- After listning, are you now feeling that tingle of mystique? Something greater than just a standard sci-fi? Maybe even something trancendental? Good, then follow the next step.

 

2. Watch Dune - Alternative Edition Redux [fanedit]

- It is the version that actually makes sense. Avoid any other.

- Realize that this is really a flawed jem. It's pretty much the best hero's journey that you can find with themes of destiny, precience and overcoming oneself.

 

3. Read the book.

- Your life is now complete.

 

(I only read four first books of Dune due to SPOILER:

book five making a 1500 year time-skip after the death of the major Atreides characters

)  

 

 

My personal advice: skip step 2.

 

 

Nah, the atmosphere and set pieces are awesome

 

Keep in mind that the "Alternative Edition Redux" is only available through download on the 'net as it is not an official release. Just google it and do not feel bad for dowloading it since it falls under as an educational piece.

 

 

I'll admit the visuals are gorgeous.

[Bartimaeus]

I'm curious. The vast majority of the folks who post on this board are intelligent and well educated (sometimes even both  ). How many of your parents read to you? I'm not making a point or searching for anecdotal evidence of anything. I'm really curious. 

 

Both of my parents read to me, usually from the bible or some "classic" stories. My dad spent a year reading Treasure Island to me before I was old enough to read on my own. I vaguely remember that to this day. They did the same for my younger brother too. I can't ever remember a time since I was a kid when I wasn't reading a book.

 

Outside of the Bible, I don't think much of anything was ever read to me or my siblings. However, on the other hand, we listened to old radio tapes like the...uh...the Whistler, and something called the Best Christmas Pageant Ever, I think it was called. We also listened to the soundtrack of O Brother, Where Art Thou? a million times, and I had to have watched the Jungle Book, Beauty and the Beast, and Sleeping Beauty a few hundred times collectively by the time I was ten. Surprised that didn't turn my brain to mush. Or perhaps it did.

 

On the other hand, I was independently reading stuff like the Harry Potter books and the Lord of the Rings as well as Redwall and...some Garth Nix stuff and...uh...other stuff, I guess, through 1st to 4th grade about...though I can really only begin to remember anything of what I read by the time I was in third and fourth grade. Trying to read the LotR trilogy in second grade was a mistake - I got through it somehow, but I don't remember hardly a single word. Should've started with the Hobbit.

 

(e) I didn't really read any "classic" books until by the time I was in middle/high school. I thought Animal Farm was terribly dreadful, so hamfisted (ha ha) and boring as it was - didn't like Lord of the Flies, either. I don't much like any "classic" novels, actually - only exception I can think of at the moment is 1984 (e: unless you count the Roadside Picnic as a "classic", in which case, that too), which I thought was rather enjoyable.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Raithe]

My parents got me reading Enid Blyton when I was around 5. So all the Famous Five, Secret Seven, Adventures of.. Mysteries of.. etc... I think that fairly got me hooked on the book bug.

[Hurlshort]

 

One of my favourite real children's book series is The Chronicles of Prydain (what the Disney movie The Black Cauldron is based on). If you've got children in that age bracket, I highly recommend it. It's actually quite a thoughtful series. One of the books actually deals entirely with Taran's trying to find who he is, with him trying out different apprenticeships, meeting common folk and generally growing more adult while still somewhat lost as to what he's supposed to do with his life. Also, it doesn't shy away from showing that something good people do die in war, and that it's often the common folk who would rather have just lived a quiet life that tend to do so.

 

 

I grew up on Lloyd Alexander, yo!  I've made a Taran in every RPG I've played since then.  

[Namutree]

 

 

One of my favourite real children's book series is The Chronicles of Prydain (what the Disney movie The Black Cauldron is based on). If you've got children in that age bracket, I highly recommend it. It's actually quite a thoughtful series. One of the books actually deals entirely with Taran's trying to find who he is, with him trying out different apprenticeships, meeting common folk and generally growing more adult while still somewhat lost as to what he's supposed to do with his life. Also, it doesn't shy away from showing that something good people do die in war, and that it's often the common folk who would rather have just lived a quiet life that tend to do so.

 

 

I grew up on Lloyd Alexander, yo!  I've made a Taran in every RPG I've played since then.  

 

Really? I always just use names I made up. I do like Taran as a fantasy name though.

[ravenshrike]

 

Except that IS the basic premise of the author of the article. Moreover, the asshat in the interview feels conflicted about coming up with the justification for the family. The idea of justifying something that gives someone an advantage over others actually causes him mental conflict.

 

Actually, no. "Conflict" is only mentioned in the text once.

 

 

 

 Swift in particular has been conflicted for some time over the curious situation that arises when a parent wants to do the best for her child but in the process makes the playing field for others even more lopsided.

 

I see nothing inherently wrong in being conflicted over that. It's not the same as "being conflicted about coming up with justification for the family".

 

Basically you find it objectionable that people exist who dare to think about whether the way we're doing things is optimal or not, regardless of what conclusion they arrive on. Congratulations, you have (re-)invented thoughtcrime.

 

Yes, because despising someone because their first principles are utterly insane and that they must grasp at straws to justify a position that no rational person should have difficulty accepting in the first place is "(re)inventing thoughtcrime". There is exactly zero rational basis for accepting that familial good takes precedence over social justice if you accept equality of opportunity as a first principle as Swift and Brighouse do. Yet both of them are attempting to do so in the article, and looking at what's available on wiki they have both been doing so for the past 6 years at least.  Swift himself is an authoritarian rat**** as evidenced by the last minute of that little soundclip helpfully provided by the article.