12 level Ranger vs Rogue Range damage- War Bow, Arquebuse.

[MoxyWoo]

As always, appreciate your testing Peddroelm but makes more sense if it didn't bypass DR though because an old thread put its damage type as pierce.... Basically making it worthless for a ranger as it had to bypass DR.

 

Still, in play it seems to melt things, so... not sure.

[peddroelm]

@MoxyWoo I suspect the damage type would be inherited from the weapon used to apply it.. All ranged weapons do pierce but melee weapons can also do crush and slash ..

[Kilrach]

So the question how does the extra sneak damage from the ten rogue shots (including crits) compare to the extra couple of shots from the ranger's speed? I wonder how the results are like if the ranger uses Vicious Aim instead too

 

Also, if we are gonna include Wounding Shot and Marked Prey, shouldn't we include rogue's per encounter abilities and Deep Wounds too?

Edited May 4, 2015 by Kilrach

[Zwiebelchen]

Damage comparisons are moot if they don't include the following:

 

- actually comparing damage per second between builds, instead of damage per blow

- varied targets with low DR and high DR

Edited May 4, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[MoxyWoo]

So the question how does the extra sneak damage from the ten rogue shots (including crits) compare to the extra couple of shots from the ranger's speed? I wonder how the results are like if the ranger uses Vicious Aim instead too

 

Also, if we are gonna include Wounding Shot and Marked Prey, shouldn't we include rogue's per encounter abilities and Deep Wounds too?

thing was... op didnt include them despite rogue having all of their abilities.

 

ymmv..  i was trying to add the differences.

[Atchod]

Problem is in calculation ranger doesnt use his key skills and debuffs neither he uses his pet , but rogue gets deathblows on every enemy from the party and can use all of its skills , What the ****? Also tigranes is talking random stuff as usual dont pay attention to that

[Tigranes]

 

Because if your rogue is not hitting a conditional, then something is very wrong.

 

Why? On POTD everything has high deflection, which means the majority of actions will likely be grazes/misses. This halves status effect durations, and the rogue sure as hell can't supply his own for long.

 

We are now considering a bunch of support characters dedicated to status effects just to keep 2 statuses on at all times for the rogue, so you can get sneak attacks and deathblows. These are not free actions, the wizard/cipher could be expending their spells to debuff in other ways or use damaging spells instead. They can do whatever they please in the presence of a ranger.

 

Granted, you'll have one sneak-triggering status effect most of the time, but on higher difficulties not necessarily all of the time, and definitely not two effects all of the time. For example, on high levels once you get gaze of the adragan out, other CC is a waste. Damage spells is what you need immediately after that, not stacking hobbled and stuck on top of petrified.

 

 

This is all true, but my assumption is if you're playing with a rogue then you're playing to maximise him - though yes, by the same logic, the ranger calculation should for example include the Ila chant. In any party with a mage or cipher, for example, the rogue is going to be hitting on one conditional consistently (two is a rarer thing, so yes, we shouldn't assume a rogue that deathblows all the time). Solo is again a different story in a number of ways, of course.

 

But as Moxywoo and peddroelm say, the moment we add anything other than standard attacks, we're now getting to a situation where the ranger and rogue should really both be using all their skills. I think we can't actually just isolate 'standard hits', because it would be equally unfair to have a rogue just strike non-sneak attack blows.

[Kanasuke]

If you are building around having classes that inflict conditions to boost your rogue, don't just have one rogue. Have 2 or 3 rogues.

 

If you're planning on bringing classes that inflict conditionals anyway, why not take further advantage of it. I think it is a mistake to bring just one rogue (unless you don't have space or you think it will trivialize the game too much).

 

In another run say you have a self-imposed rule: No-Casters.

Then Rangers will be better imo.

[MoxyWoo]

Think some other person was saying that about rogues.. much like wizards to me are multiplicative, rogues would definitely fall into that too.

 

Only problem is, I prefer AoE, and while I have enjoyed my rogue alpha strike taking down X monster as much as the next pc, something is more satisfying letting the monsters just die all at once instead of one at a time.  Endless path battles when there's like 20+ things stuck in a choke and then all dying at once or killing each other via CC was just an eye opener for me more than a 81+ dmg or whatever from a rogue.

 

Funny thing was, I think one of my wizards did have the highest damage in a strike above the rogue for awhile at 93 until lvl 8.  Not sure what I was using to produce it as I didnt pay too much attention to the logs, but then I was like... OREALLY ROGUE?  What did I take you for!

[Raven Darkholme]

Think some other person was saying that about rogues.. much like wizards to me are multiplicative, rogues would definitely fall into that too.

 

Only problem is, I prefer AoE, and while I have enjoyed my rogue alpha strike taking down X monster as much as the next pc, something is more satisfying letting the monsters just die all at once instead of one at a time.  Endless path battles when there's like 20+ things stuck in a choke and then all dying at once or killing each other via CC was just an eye opener for me more than a 81+ dmg or whatever from a rogue.

 

Funny thing was, I think one of my wizards did have the highest damage in a strike above the rogue for awhile at 93 until lvl 8.  Not sure what I was using to produce it as I didnt pay too much attention to the logs, but then I was like... OREALLY ROGUE?  What did I take you for!

That's really low for level 8 though, a rogue can do 60+ damage with level TWO and an unenchanted crossbow. :D

[MoxyWoo]

Yeah, I put my rogue with a warbow and didn't bother to micro that much.  Probably heavily influenced by how the +dmg modifiers are better off faster weapons just like everyone else, but, practical optimization... a heavy/slow one for an opener > warbow was best which I didn't do til later.

 

So.. as others have said.... heavy hitter > warbow is probably the best "weapon"...  This thread was just to show raw and big chunky numbers, but again, practically, the ranger fires faster, has a duty of dealing damage to 2 targets vs 1 like a weird ranged barbarian, and additional utility via rooting pain, etc.

 

Whether its worth more than a rogue's single comes down to a style choice as "dps" is equal with just driving flight supposedly, and rangers fire faster with the big guns.

[Raven Darkholme]

I just could never be bothered to extendedly try and babysit the rangers pet. Tried it twice and deleted the group in the temple of Eothas. :D

[MoxyWoo]

Lol... its why I have a tough time with ranger.... Its like they're almost there.

 

Best I could do was a melee ranger for a bit, the stalker's link is much easier to manage if your ranger engages first and tanks for them.  Problem is, I kept thinking if I wanted max accuracy, I'd use vicious which was incompatible with melee not to mention they didn't have particularly tank worthy things to do.

 

Another easier way that resulted in less deaths, was to keep the pet all the way in the back row for a formation so when I hit the backspace + attack one guy thing to start a fight, at least they'd have to chase down whatever.

 

All that aside, I'm getting older, so managing one more "thing" was annoying when I just wanted my ranger to deal good dps like my rogue did.

[rheingold]

Come on guys, it's not that tough to manage the pet! I actually enjoy micro managing so I just think of the Ranger, as well a ranger and the pet as my rogue. Just waiting for the patch for a few small but important changes regarding the class.

[Raven Darkholme]

Come on guys, it's not that tough to manage the pet! I actually enjoy micro managing so I just think of the Ranger, as well a ranger and the pet as my rogue. Just waiting for the patch for a few small but important changes regarding the class.

I don't know about that comparison pet = rogue. :D

[rheingold]

A very weak, squishy rogue... Who doesn't deal a lot of damage!