An old but endless discussion...the Backer Achievement

[Rosveen]

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

 

"Who cares, I don't want it so you can't have it either."

 

"Not fair!"

 

"Bitch whine filthy achievement whore! Whine! Should have backed the KS! Bitch! Bitch!"

 

...where 95% of whining is done by one person.

Well to be fair, regardless of opinion on the matter, if you didn't back it on KS, you shouldn't be surprised you can't get the KS Backer acheev.

Absolutely. However, everyone can discuss if there should be a backer achievement at all - or any "limited offer" achievements and not achievable by playing the game, which is what this problem really is about. Especially when all or almost all backers in this thread said they don't care about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

Right, bitching and whining like I said. Glad we're in agreement.

It warms my heart to see you uphold the PoE forum sacred tradition of calling everyone you disagree with a whiner and a troll.

I never called anyone a troll. Don't push your assumptions on to me. Nor do I call everybody I disagree with a whiner; just the ones whining about something.

I apologize. I didn't mean to imply you call people trolls, only that your "whiners!" reaction is identical to an avalanche of "troll!" reactions I see on this forum so often. Ruining the threads, btw, even perfectly innocent ones. Sometimed people just ask for stupid features without trolling deliberately.

 

Anyway, I haven't seen much, if any, whining in this thread. Only a few people complaining about whining and entitlement. Now, you can argue that all objections to the backer achievement are inherently childish and annoying, so "whining" by definition, but if this discussion is really so beneath you, I'm surprised you engaged in it at all.

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

 

"Who cares, I don't want it so you can't have it either."

 

"Not fair!"

 

"Bitch whine filthy achievement whore! Whine! Should have backed the KS! Bitch! Bitch!"

 

...where 95% of whining is done by one person.

Well to be fair, regardless of opinion on the matter, if you didn't back it on KS, you shouldn't be surprised you can't get the KS Backer acheev.

Absolutely. However, everyone can discuss if there should be a backer achievement at all - or any "limited offer" achievements and not achievable by playing the game, which is what this problem really is about. Especially when all or almost all backers in this thread said they don't care about it.

 

 

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

Right, bitching and whining like I said. Glad we're in agreement.

It warms my heart to see you uphold the PoE forum sacred tradition of calling everyone you disagree with a whiner and a troll.

I never called anyone a troll. Don't push your assumptions on to me. Nor do I call everybody I disagree with a whiner; just the ones whining about something.

I apologize. I didn't mean to imply you call people trolls, only that your "whiners!" reaction is identical to an avalanche of "troll!" reactions I see on this forum so often. Ruining the threads, btw, even perfectly innocent ones. Sometimed people just ask for stupid features without trolling deliberately.

 

Anyway, I haven't seen much, if any, whining in this thread. Only a few people complaining about whining and entitlement. Now, you can argue that all objections to the backer achievement are inherently childish and annoying, so "whining" by definition, but if this discussion is really so beneath you, I'm surprised you engaged in it at all.

 

I don't find the discussion beneath me at all, I find the the cries of people whining--and that's all it is--about the backer achievement annoying. It is more than inherently childish, it's inherently "whining". The one and only argument capable of being made is literally that other people got something that they didn't and now they feel cheated.

 

There's an inherent disregard for the idea of rewards given for behavior taken in the whole concept. The backer achievement isn't something that was given out random in a limited time frame just because; it's a specific reward to the backers for helping the game get made. You can argue all day long about whether that reward means anything and about whether the specific idea of this type of reward is good or bad, but at the end of the day it boils down to a bunch of people complaining about how other people got something and they didn't, and how that's not fair.

[Rosveen]

 

 

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

 

"Who cares, I don't want it so you can't have it either."

 

"Not fair!"

 

"Bitch whine filthy achievement whore! Whine! Should have backed the KS! Bitch! Bitch!"

 

...where 95% of whining is done by one person.

Well to be fair, regardless of opinion on the matter, if you didn't back it on KS, you shouldn't be surprised you can't get the KS Backer acheev.

Absolutely. However, everyone can discuss if there should be a backer achievement at all - or any "limited offer" achievements and not achievable by playing the game, which is what this problem really is about. Especially when all or almost all backers in this thread said they don't care about it.

 

 

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

Right, bitching and whining like I said. Glad we're in agreement.

It warms my heart to see you uphold the PoE forum sacred tradition of calling everyone you disagree with a whiner and a troll.

I never called anyone a troll. Don't push your assumptions on to me. Nor do I call everybody I disagree with a whiner; just the ones whining about something.

I apologize. I didn't mean to imply you call people trolls, only that your "whiners!" reaction is identical to an avalanche of "troll!" reactions I see on this forum so often. Ruining the threads, btw, even perfectly innocent ones. Sometimed people just ask for stupid features without trolling deliberately.

 

Anyway, I haven't seen much, if any, whining in this thread. Only a few people complaining about whining and entitlement. Now, you can argue that all objections to the backer achievement are inherently childish and annoying, so "whining" by definition, but if this discussion is really so beneath you, I'm surprised you engaged in it at all.

I don't find the discussion beneath me at all, I find the the cries of people whining--and that's all it is--about the backer achievement annoying. It is more than inherently childish, it's inherently "whining". The one and only argument capable of being made is literally that other people got something that they didn't and now they feel cheated.

 

There's an inherent disregard for the idea of rewards given for behavior taken in the whole concept. The backer achievement isn't something that was given out random in a limited time frame just because; it's a specific reward to the backers for helping the game get made. You can argue all day long about whether that reward means anything and about whether the specific idea of this type of reward is good or bad, but at the end of the day it boils down to a bunch of people complaining about how other people got something and they didn't, and how that's not fair.

Which is a legitimate complaint if they really were treated unfairly. Obsidian prohibited the majority of players, often day 1 buyers, from completing an achievement collection which is an important Steam feature for many. Would it make sense to restrict cloud saves to backers? Of course not. But it apparently is fair to tell people "tough luck, if you want to showcase the 100% mark on your profile, you should have known about and paid for the game before it even existed."

 

To be honest, most people complaining about it wouldn't get 100% completion even if they could. Triple Crown Solo, anyone? But in my opinion all achievements should potentially be available to all Steam buyers. They should be acquired with gameplay feats, not money. It isn't petty jealousy (since I'm a backer myself), simply my view on achievements.

 

Instead, Obsidian could have made the KS backer achievement a badge - which is what it really is, a badge of early support, and heck, we already have not one, but two of them here on the forum. How many more do we need? Or made it not count towards the 100%, if it's technically possible.

[luzarius]

I refuse to kill backers in game just to gain a worthless achievement.

[Elerond]

Which is a legitimate complaint if they really were treated unfairly. Obsidian prohibited the majority of players, often day 1 buyers, from completing an achievement collection which is an important Steam feature for many.

 

That is bit stretching as in 99.99% of steam games less than 0.1% (Steam don't offer more accurate information) of people playing the games actually use their time to get all the achievements. So it may be important feature to some, but not actually that many, especially if you take consideration that there is program freely available in internet that you can use to mark those achievements achieved.

 

Even at this moment under 50% of all players of PoE in steam have gotten achievement that they have finished Act 1, most achieved achievement is hiring adventurer and even that is achieved by under 50% of the players. so because there is over 300k people that have played PoE in steam (according to steamspy), it means that over 150k people haven't even finished first act. And there is four achievements that are achieved only by under 300 people, which is not many it is very niche punch of people and it's impossible to say how many of those used that freely available hacking tool to get those achievements.

[Katarack21]

Again, we can argue all day long about whether the reward is a good or bad idea. I literally don't care about that.

Thing is, there's no way to claim it's "unfair". It's *unequal*, but it's perfectly *fair*. Nobody was "prevented" from anything--some people simply didn't do the action which would have resulted in the reward. There was no cheating, there's no violation of any rules, there's no manipulation or concealed intent.

There was an action which was made available to all with no limits. Some people took that action, others--for a variety of reasons--did not. Those who took the action received a reward. Those who did not take the action did not receive that reward. Those who did not receive the reward are now complaining about how they don't have the reward. That's what's happening.

[Rosveen]

 

Which is a legitimate complaint if they really were treated unfairly. Obsidian prohibited the majority of players, often day 1 buyers, from completing an achievement collection which is an important Steam feature for many.

That is bit stretching as in 99.99% of steam games less than 0.1% (Steam don't offer more accurate information) of people playing the games actually use their time to get all the achievements. So it may be important feature to some, but not actually that many, especially if you take consideration that there is program freely available in internet that you can use to mark those achievements achieved.

 

Even at this moment under 50% of all players of PoE in steam have gotten achievement that they have finished Act 1, most achieved achievement is hiring adventurer and even that is achieved by under 50% of the players. so because there is over 300k people that have played PoE in steam (according to steamspy), it means that over 150k people haven't even finished first act. And there is four achievements that are achieved only by under 300 people, which is not many it is very niche punch of people and it's impossible to say how many of those used that freely available hacking tool to get those achievements.

I meant that achievements in general are important to many, which is true, but good point nonetheless. PoE doesn't really have the kind of audience where getting 100% completion is a major issue.

 

I guess it's just something to consider for the next Kickstarter if Obsidian starts one?

[Doug]

Just logging in to get my daily fix of peurile garbage.

 

Wow, generous helping today...thanks everyone!

[FlintlockJazz]

Just logging in to get my daily fix of peurile garbage.

 

Wow, generous helping today...thanks everyone!

Do you want to get a whole week's worth in one go?  Cause if you do I'll get started on this thread for ya.

[Molcho]

Knowing how much time and ressources are spent by developers on getting achievements "right", I'd love to see them vanish once and for all.

 

Same goes for Steam trading cards. There are people boycotting games because there are no trading cards for them. Seriously, **** off. 

[Hassat Hunter]

Is it fair to those who want to get all achievements so that they can make a game badge?  I do not think it is fair.

 

Achievements and trading card system are totally unrelated. So no point there.

 

Also, it makes me sad this is such a big thread now, like it actually matters... while it really shouldn't.

 

BUT... here I come in with the sollution. Add a 'Kickstart the expansion DLC' to Steam that costs 15 euro and gives... this achievement, and nothing more. Not the expansion of course, you just fund it not buy it. After it's release make a 'Kickstart expansion #2' and then 'Kickstart PoE2' etc. So people always can fund the game and get their precious useless achievement while we all actually gain something from dumb people like that.

 

It's win-win!

[Hassat Hunter]

But it apparently is fair to tell people "tough luck, if you want to showcase the 100% mark on your profile, you should have known about and paid for the game before it even existed."

*ahum*

You DO know it's not actually possible to feature a game as such on your profile right?

 

If you want that, it seems you need to ask Valve, not Obsidian

[Rosveen]

 

But it apparently is fair to tell people "tough luck, if you want to showcase the 100% mark on your profile, you should have known about and paid for the game before it even existed."

*ahum*

You DO know it's not actually possible to feature a game as such on your profile right?

 

If you want that, it seems you need to ask Valve, not Obsidian

True, but you can show a cabinet with rare achievements, including the number of perfect games. That's one less perfect game available.

[Hassat Hunter]

So you basically increase one meaningless number in order to raise yet ANOTHER meaningless number. Does that raise a 3rd meaningless number too?

[Katarack21]

It's fair, yes. It's completely fair because it was open, honest, completely transparent and involved no lying, cheating, manipulation, concealed intent, or any other kind of unfair advantage. It's a *very* simple and direct deal--"anybody who wishes can do this to receive this. Anybody who does not, won't get it." It's the same as having a copy of PoE I spent 20 bucks on, or the people who got a ****ing guidebook. You can whine all you want about how you don't *like* it, but to say it's unfair that you didn't get the reward given out for a specific activity that was open to all is just self-entitled bull****.

If you didn't do that, tough ****. You had the same exposures, the same opportunity, the same theoretical capability as anybody else. You didn't take the action, you didn't get the reward. It's not like a secret cabal of video game developers came up to me one night two and half years ago with a backroom deal for a Steam achievement.