[Bug] Carnage hits nearby confused allies

[notu]

Description:

Carnage procs against allies who are confused (and probably any other similar status) who wander too close to a barbarian hitting an actual enemy. I consider this a bug because it implies the confused one is the barbarian. The confused party member was standing in a stupor and had not taken any hostile action (towards anything).

 

~I've stood next to you while you flew into unimaginable rages during which no sane person could have any higher brain functions left, and yet you never once hit me. I get covered in some mushroom dust and NOW you hit me??~

"I could see you wandering around in a daze, I thought some light stabbing might snap you out of it.."

~You killed me~

"Confusion cured!"

~...~

 

Steps to Reproduce the Issue:

Most easily reproduced in a fight against spore creatures with at least 1 barbarian in the party (who is not confused).

 

Suggested fix:

Confused allies are not hostile, but are instead neutral. They -could- be attacked by friend or foe, but are not inherently hit by foe only effects like carnage or (some) spells. They should still be affected by ally only effects such as healing or condition suppressing. If your system only allows friend/foe, then they must remain friend and control of the character simply removed or suspended (such as the case with knockdown/prone)

[MadDemiurg]

This is just how confusion works now and not a barbarian issue. Whether it should work like this is more of a balance topic and not a bug.

[Khalid the bear]

nay aoe will hit confused partymember. other partymembers my even auto atack confused one if there are no enemyies left/if the confused partmember attacks them

 

so its not a carnage issue (and it has beeen discused many times)

[notu]

I searched for all posts on carnage and this had not been reported as far as the forum search engine was able to provide.

I realize there are -similar- issues with confusion, however you can -choose- whether to plonk an AOE spell over a confused ally.

You can't choose not to trigger carnage other than let the enemy freely attack you while waiting for the charm to wear off (I don't consider that a valid workaround, you might as well say 'just reload your last save').

 

How is this not considered a bug? Confusion was on the ally, not the Barbarian yet it was affecting the Barbarian's ability, not the confused ally abilities.

I can understand a confused Barbarian hitting my party with carnage, but that should not go the other way.

 

Don't mistake that just because "this is how something works now" that it is not a bug - by that logic, there are no bugs.

That would imply it's a feature, and thus we should find documentation indicating that 'Barbarians are crazy, they will slaughter any allies who come under temporary charm effects. Do not take Barbarians in your party if you value companionship, loyalty, or your life.'

 

Note that I'm not talking about a bug in the party AI and an autoattack on a charmed member, this is the carnage auto-proc from hitting a (real) enemy

 

If you can find another bug post regarding carnage and it hitting charmed allies, please link it and we can close this one.

[MadDemiurg]

Chain type spells also hit confused allies (and you can't aim them). I'm not sure there's a post complaining about carnage and confusion specifically - but as I said it's rather an issue (an annoying one, but not necessarily a bug) with the underlying mechanics - confused allies being treated as enemies.

[Khalid the bear]

if there is a bug, bug is: confused allies being treated as enemies.

carnage thing is just a consenquence of that bug (or intended mehancis)

[Hassat Hunter]

On the other side; this also counts for confused opponents, getting attacked and possibly killed by their teammates

[Khalid the bear]

behavior here is mor or les the same for confused/charmed/dominated

[notu]

Chain type spells also hit confused allies (and you can't aim them). I'm not sure there's a post complaining about carnage and confusion specifically - but as I said it's rather an issue (an annoying one, but not necessarily a bug) with the underlying mechanics - confused allies being treated as enemies.

 

While I can see your perspective that it may just be a flaw of sorts due to underlying mechanics, I choose to class this as a bug because I give the game designers more credit than to think they would purposely design this in such a way that your party members kill charmed members without the player actively making them take such action. Thus I don't consider it an intended feature and put it in the bug category.

If this is the best they could shoehorn into a broken-by-design game engine and they didn't realise it when they started, then that could also be accepted, but I think there could be better ways of dealing with this such as leaving them as allied and just having 'confused' act more like an alternative stun/knockdown.

 

Either way, until they flat out come and say "This is working as intended, we put this in deliberately. We're jerks and you wanted a challenge, deal with it!" then I'll leave it as a bug report.

[Khalid the bear]

yup, it is a bug/oversight. but not specific to carnage, but part of a bigger isue

[notu]

Yep, I realise there are similar related problems, as I mentioned before I didn't find any mention of it with Carnage; for completeness I was filing this since I don't know whether they will be fixing individual skills to work better with charmed party members, or if they can blanket fix it with a change to the status effect

[Khalid the bear]

'fixing' some skills or induvidual skill by skill wouldnt be a fx at all
only fix would be to confuse/charm/dominate not same as an enemy state but a separate. so party doesnt atack its charmed party members, and enemies dont attack charmed enemies

( a) party b) friendly NPCS c) enemies d) charmed friendlies e) charmed enemies - so 'a' doesnt atack 'd' and 'c' doesnt attack 'e' (friendly nepcs dont usualy join in fights unless atacked in which case thej change state to enemies))

[Hassat Hunter]

friendly nepcs dont usualy join in fights

 

I've seen a giant barbrawl with many patrons, kickstarters involved in fighting my opponents. They weren't attacked either.

[thelee]

'fixing' some skills or induvidual skill by skill wouldnt be a fx at all

only fix would be to confuse/charm/dominate not same as an enemy state but a separate. so party doesnt atack its charmed party members, and enemies dont attack charmed enemies

 

( a) party b) friendly NPCS c) enemies d) charmed friendlies e) charmed enemies - so 'a' doesnt atack 'd' and 'c' doesnt attack 'e' (friendly nepcs dont usualy join in fights unless atacked in which case thej change state to enemies))

 

after 1.05 to move more wizard abilities to foe-only, i think proper treatment of confused enemies has become more important. it's unlike previous IE games where confused enemies were still enemies; once enemies become confused you actually become less effective against them, since so many abilities now only explicitly target foes.

[notu]

'fixing' some skills or induvidual skill by skill wouldnt be a fx at all

only fix would be to confuse/charm/dominate not same as an enemy state but a separate. so party doesnt atack its charmed party members, and enemies dont attack charmed enemies

 

( a) party b) friendly NPCS c) enemies d) charmed friendlies e) charmed enemies - so 'a' doesnt atack 'd' and 'c' doesnt attack 'e' (friendly nepcs dont usualy join in fights unless atacked in which case thej change state to enemies))

 

Yes, that was my preferred fix in my original post, but it would be fine with compromises if it's not possible just as long as it means your own party doesn't insta-gib charmed allies.

As a last resort, I would rather all charm/confuse/similar skills be completely removed from the game and just replaced with some other ability.

Mushrooms could put you to sleep instead, vampires could 'hypnotize' (stun) you, etc. There are many simple fixes for this if they can't/won't do the charm effect properly.

 

I just hope we get this sooner than a community unofficial patch in 2 years time

[Vic20]

Chain type spells also hit confused allies (and you can't aim them). I'm not sure there's a post complaining about carnage and confusion specifically - but as I said it's rather an issue (an annoying one, but not necessarily a bug) with the underlying mechanics - confused allies being treated as enemies.

Oh man... THAT would explain why any Barbarian and/or Cipher wielding the Shattered Vengeance club is applying a stacking, non-curable +5% damage taken per stack (Shards of Woedica) to all their teammates.