Comparing PoE to BG is unfair

[Elerond]

 

 

Prove it.

 

Why? Is there price?

 

But you can go in global camp and rest to remove your injuries if you want.

 

That means that DA:O has a "home base" mechanic. Like any home base mechanic in any game. You don't rest there however, because there's no resting. There's no NEED for a resting mechanic. Injuries are instantly healed upon area transition to home base.

 

 

It is resting mechanic as you need to leave map where you are and go to the camp to get bonus. Better than one you find in BG for example where you can take 8 hour naps by clicking button and near by enemy horde kindly waits that you get your health, spells and abilities back.

[Stun]

It is resting mechanic as you need to leave map where you are

It's a resting mechanic because....you have to map-travel?

 

and go to the camp to get bonus.

Bonus? what bonus?

 

Better than one you find in BG for example where you can take 8 hour naps by clicking button and near by enemy horde kindly waits that you get your health, spells and abilities back.

You mean, you like it better than... Resting. Edited April 28, 2015 by Stun

[Noin]

 

Agreed, combat is the only good thing about DOS.

I'd also rank D:OS's character building/customization up there with any game. And while people usually just lump D:OS's amazing environment interaction mechanics with "combat", I Don't. They're their own category, and deserve separate praise for what they are, since they're often used to solve NON-combat situations/puzzles/challenges. D:OS's Co-op play is also quite good. I don't recall another game that did it better, or even tried. And the Music....oh god...the music.... It's so good that it almost doesn't fit a game of D:OS's caliber.

 

Edit: of course, D:OS's flaws are also numerous. Stealing is too easy. Party members are IWDish, The story is so excessively light and non-captivating that it almost seems deliberate....as if the developers were encouraging you to ignore it and just enjoy the combat and environment. The Humor is Beavis and Butthead-like and can become grating after a while.

 

What's good about the character building? I mean there is only one race and only two variants: male and female. Doesn't matter what you do, the girls look like american cheerleaders and the guy like some fitness trainers. I'd argue PoE has ten times better character building: I added some custom characters in my party instead of the story NPCs because I got got an idea and I wanted to check it out - for example I made a dwarf hunter (even though he is technically a rogue) wearing a wide-brimmed hat, Dyrwood clothing and shooting enemies with an arquebus. I just love him. Second custom char is a dwarf barbarian with a mohawk with two axes who wears no armor (Gotrek anyone?)) etc.

In D:OS there is no such freedom.

[scrotiemcb]

Comparing a new game to a very old one might be unfair for the old one. I cannot fathom how it could be unfair for the new one.

[Elerond]

 

It is resting mechanic as you need to leave map where you are

It's a resting mechanic because....you have to map-travel?

 

and go to the camp to get bonus.

Bonus? what bonus?

 

Better than one you find in BG for example where you can take 8 hour naps by clicking button and near by enemy horde kindly waits that you get your health, spells and abilities back.

You mean, you like it better than... Resting.

 

 

And it is resting in BG because you click button?

 

In both cases in-game time goes forward, in both cases your party rests, even if you don't need to click specified resting button in DAO. 

 

Bonus in this case is to get health, spells etc. back by doing actually nothing and without losing anything, but time in DAO and not even that in BG.

[Noin]

Comparing a new game to a very old one might be unfair for the old one. I cannot fathom how it could be unfair for the new one.

Comparing ANY story-driven RPG to Planescape Torment would be unfair, in my opinion. Doesn't matter whether it's new or old, it's not about the technical stuff anyway.

 

The technology may have improved, but the right team, the motivation, the talented people. In some cases it's a combination which might not happen again.

 

It's like comparing dubstep to Schopenhauer's music is unfair... for the Schopenhauer, because he lived a long time ago and the sound recording and whatever technologies are much more advanced now.

[Baron Bawookles]

Comparing PoE to BG is unfair only in the sense that BG (and most notably BG2) are fantastic and PoE is pretty poor.

[Yonjuro]

...

It's like comparing dubstep to Schopenhauer's music is unfair... for the Schopenhauer, because he lived a long time ago and the sound recording and whatever technologies are much more advanced now.

 

 

  or, uh, because Schopenhauer wasn't actually a composer .... 

[Stun]

What's good about the character building? I mean there is only one race and only two variants: male and female. Doesn't matter what you do, the girls look like american cheerleaders and the guy like some fitness trainers. I'd argue PoE has ten times better character building: I added some custom characters in my party instead of the story NPCs because I got got an idea and I wanted to check it out - for example I made a dwarf hunter (even though he is technically a rogue) wearing a wide-brimmed hat, Dyrwood clothing and shooting enemies with an arquebus. I just love him. Second custom char is a dwarf barbarian with a mohawk with two axes who wears no armor (Gotrek anyone?)) etc.

In D:OS there is no such freedom.

True. Race options = 1.

 

But what I like about D:OS's character building/customization is....everything else.

 

The system is a strange hybrid of class and classless. Spells, rogue skills and fighter talents are divided up into dozens of 'schools' that anyone can advance in. Anyone. The mix and match nature of it produces a bajillion diverse results. You can Build a warrior-pyromaniac. or a Rogue-healer. or a Mage-backstabber. Or an Archer who can teleport people. Or a Backstabbing warrior who can summon elementals. or an Archer who creates water surfaces so that his lightning arrows become AOE's. Or an Earth-Mage-fighter-rogue-witch. or a Rogue with invisibility spells. Or a Fighter-necromancer-archer-healer-backstabber....

 

And unlike other games with classless systems (like Skyrim, or Witcher) D:OS still has Ability scores. And talents that are separate from all of the above.

 

And I'm STILL under-stating the big picture, since Crafting, Talking, and Blacksmithing are also Character build options with their own advancement mechanics. And Saving throws can be directly altered/improved via point allocation. etc.

[scrotiemcb]

 

 

Comparing a new game to a very old one might be unfair for the old one. I cannot fathom how it could be unfair for the new one.

Comparing ANY story-driven RPG to Planescape Torment would be unfair, in my opinion. Doesn't matter whether it's new or old, it's not about the technical stuff anyway.

 

The technology may have improved, but the right team, the motivation, the talented people. In some cases it's a combination which might not happen again.

 

It's like comparing dubstep to Schopenhauer's music is unfair... for the Schopenhauer, because he lived a long time ago and the sound recording and whatever technologies are much more advanced now.

You have apparently confused the concept of fairness with the concept of not being utterly and viciously torn a new one. Just because something isn't good doesn't mean it gets some kind of free pass against things which are.

[Stun]

And it is resting in BG because you click button?

No sir. It is resting in BG because Time passes. It is resting in BG because it is tied to per rest abilities, and items with properties that can only be used on a per rest basis.

 

In both cases in-game time goes forward

You are mistaken. And this is easy to test out. Go to the Dalish camp in the Bracilian forest (or anywhere that lets you instantly teleport to camp.) Note the time of day. Now teleport to camp... and stay there as long as you want....then teleport back. No time will have passed. if it was night time when you arrived, it will be night time when you return.

 

Bonus in this case is to get health, spells

False. Health (and Stamina and Mana) has its own regeneration system and is not affected, in any way, by a trip to home base. Spells (and all other abilities) are strictly tied to their own cool-down timers and likewise are not affected by the Home base mechanic. The ONLY effects returning to the home base offers is: 1) All injuries are instantly removed 2) some party members have different dialogues; and 3) Party Arbitration is possible. None of these are bonuses. Edited April 29, 2015 by Stun

[Ink Blot]

All this argument about the different games and which one is better. Here's my metric:

 

IWD1 - played through it at least 3 dozen times

IWD2 - at least 1 dozen times

BG1 - again, at least 1 dozen times

BG2 - twice to the end, well over a dozen times through most of it

PS:T - actually played through only once, but only actually obtained a copy a year or so ago (this is one of the best games of all time though)

DA:O - played through 5 times. After the first run, I immediately did a second run. Several partial runs

D:OS - played through once and immediately went through again

Wasteland 2 - played through 3 times to the end, and numerous runs (at least 6) to the end of Arizona

PoE - played through once. Will likely play through a second time, but probably not right away. Not sure if I'll do more. Depends on what Obs decides to do with updates/expansions.

 

This tells me all I need to know about PoE and how good it turned out. I expect no one will agree with me on all these though.

[Cronstintein]

Well if you liked the IWD series so much clearly combat is a big factor for you. So then I'm not surprised you aren't enarmored with PoE.

 

You also have a much higher tolerance for replay than I do, holy smokes!

[View619]

Yeah, the word that comes to my mind whenever I think of current POE isn't "fun" but "potential". I'm running through on and off using the IE mod, but if patch 1.05 doesn't do something drastic regarding difficulty balance and the overall feel of combat, I may be joining the wait for the expansion as well.

Edited April 29, 2015 by View619

[Kimuji]

And yet I remember IWD taking flak from the critics when it came out because BG's combat system was ill suited (according to them) for a game focusing so much on fighting.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Kimuji

[Cronstintein]

And yet I remember IWD taking flak from the critics when it came out because BG's combat system was ill suited (according to them) for a game focusing so much on fighting.

 

Well for me that was a real downside.  Although I really enjoy technical rtwp combat I appreciate the other elements of BG as well.  Namely the companions, exploration, quests, etc..   Especially the companions, I love those guys!  For justice!

[constantine]

If PoE cannot be better than 15 year old games then it's even more crappy then i thought.

 

 

 

For one, those games have gained status of legendary proportions.

 

On another note, the major reason we lovvvv these games is *nostalgia*. For many many many of us, those experiences where among our greatest moments of gaming.

 

So, enter PoE, a new francise supposely as good as the old games. What many here haven't realised is that they judge PoE harshly and are not open-minded.

 

PoE is not here to replace our favourite games, but to line its own course.

 

More importantly, it was developed not to be a clone of BG, IWD, PS:T, but to *based on* these games.

 

 

You had all better apply your critique for PoE with that in mind. Sure, there are flaws, but with the feedback of a supportive community (who don't fight and be rude to each other) the game will become better, as it did within the 6 months of beta-testing.

[Cronstintein]

Oh I dunno.  I'm sure nostalgia has it's part but I went back to BG2 to see if it really is as good as I remember... and it's still pretty awesome.  The NPC banters are freaking fantastic.  This time around (this is my first replay since my original run 12+ years ago) I had Viconia and Aerie in party... Vic is a real biatch!

 

I remember dragon age: origins being pretty good with this, specifically teasing between the blond knight and the witchy lady being pretty funny.  But BG2 takes the cake, these banters know no equal.

[lazyman]

 

If PoE cannot be better than 15 year old games then it's even more crappy then i thought.

On another note, the major reason we lovvvv these games is *nostalgia*. For many many many of us, those experiences where among our greatest moments of gaming.

 

You had all better apply your critique for PoE with that in mind. Sure, there are flaws, but with the feedback of a supportive community (who don't fight and be rude to each other) the game will become better, as it did within the 6 months of beta-testing.

 

Nostalgia only? No sir. These old games overshadow Pillars in ever aspect except graphics (and even that is debatable). 

 

Sure, with proper modding tools we could do Total Overhaul mod and rebuild the game from scratch ...

[LeonKowalski]

And I'm STILL under-stating the big picture, since Crafting, Talking, and Blacksmithing are also Character build options with their own advancement mechanics.

 

 

The game pushing you to turn some of your companions into crafting/blacksmithing mules is not exactly a positive in my opinion. Non combat/face abilities should not use the same resource pool for advancement.

Edited April 29, 2015 by LeonKowalski

[Stun]

You had all better apply your critique for PoE with that in mind. Sure, there are flaws, but with the feedback of a supportive community (who don't fight and be rude to each other) the game will become better, as it did within the 6 months of beta-testing.

Holy Moly, I've never seen such warped logic. Not to mention history revision.

 

First, the game got better during the 6-month Open beta testing period in spite of an immense and sustained campaign of 'rudeness and fighting' that was much worse and far more widespread than anything we're seeing right now. So I'm not quite sure how you're reaching the conclusion that the community needs to change (or maintain) its behavior in any way.

 

 

Second, the game got better within the 6 months of beta testing because it was still in the friggin beta phase of production. It was unfinished. Typically, unfinished games get better as developers work on finishing them. Duh. Of course, by suggesting that we'll be seeing the same continual progress post-release that we saw during the 6 months of Beta testing, you're basically admitting that PoE is still a Beta, and that we have to wait for 6 months for them to complete it. You're free to believe this if you wish, but that constitutes a HUGE criticism of the game - something very much equal to the type of viewpoint contained in the Codex review that sent you on a multi-thread hissy fit.

 

Third, the community doesn't have to do anything. And you are grotesquely overestimating yourself and everyone here if you think we have the power to influence the quality and scope of future game updates at all.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Stun

[Ink Blot]

 

 

What many here haven't realised is that they judge PoE harshly and are not open-minded.

 

Why is it so incomprehensible to you that some people find the game just average, and other people find it terrible? Kind of like, oh let me just pick some random game out of thin air here... how about Baldur's Gate? Or Icewind Dale? Yeah, there are people that don't like some of the classics on which this game draws its inspiration. Is it really, honestly so hard to grasp that some people find flaws in this game - more than they feel can be fixed to make it a great game?

[Stun]

Oh I dunno.  I'm sure nostalgia has it's part but I went back to BG2 to see if it really is as good as I remember... and it's still pretty awesome.

My recent experience was even more Non-nostalgic than that. After my first playthrough of PoE (which I found pretty darn enjoyable and satisfying btw), I went back and Fired up BG1 and did a playthrough of it. And it was only then that I started realizing all of PoE's shortcomings, and all the ways in which BG1 outshines it. Outdoes it. Out-wows it. Edited April 29, 2015 by Stun

[constantine]

 

 

Nostalgia only? No sir. These old games overshadow Pillars in ever aspect except graphics (and even that is debatable).

 

Sure, with proper modding tools we could do Total Overhaul mod and rebuild the game from scratch ...

 

 

Debatable about the graphics ? How many years has it been since you've played BG2 ?

 

 

Every last one of us has come to accept a whole bunch of issues that make those old games less than great.

 

Not so for PoE. You are unfair about companions, story, quests, role-playing, exploration, content density, loot.

 

Only complains I find have basis are about combat (encounters & mechanics), attributes & skills and leveling up pace which all can have improvements, moreso the combat department.

 

 

Let's talk about that.

[Stun]

The game pushing you to turn some of your companions into crafting/blacksmithing mules is not exactly a positive in my opinion. Non combat/face abilities should not use the same resource pool for advancement.

You're right. Giving different party members different roles to play in the party, is a terrible, negative thing in a party based game.

 

Stupid Larian. What were they thinking!?