Looting and Rioting in Baltimore

[obyknven]

This riot looks funny really.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really cool photos of cool people.

 

P.S. I notice lack of white rioters in Murica. Left movements in Murica are pussies, they always hide when blacks rioting, instead of participate in these riots. 

 

P.P.S Black power!

[ShadySands]

Cops are an impractical ammunition

[PrimeJunta]

This would never have happened if people were only allowed to shoot caps.

[ravenshrike]

 

Yeah it's just funny that most of the people getting wrongly shot share a couple of particularly noticeable physical characteristics. Don't you think?

 

While blacks are definitely over-represented among victims of police shootings, they do not constitute "most" of them.

 

According to mappingpoliceviolence.org:

 

"At least 1149 people were killed by police in 2014. 304 (26%) were black."

 

The percentage of African Americans among the total population nation-wide is, I believe, 14%.

 

That's a clear statistical disparity of course. Also, from various studies and sources like stop-and-frisk statistics, we do know that there is in fact some amount of anti-black racial prejudice among law enforcement agencies, and the FBI even admits it (sort of).

 

However, I'd advise progressives to pause for a moment before interpreting too much into that 26%-vs-14% disparity. Because if you ignore other possible statistical factors and cause-and-affect chains and pretend that 100% of the disparity must be due to clear-cut racism and oppression and "white privilege", how will you deal with the other statistical disparity that emerges from that same data collected by mappingpoliceviolence.org:

 

Namely that of those 1149 people killed by police in 2014, 93% were male - even though only 49% of the national population is male.

 

Is this, applying the same arguments, proof that law enforcement operates under 'female privilege' and is engaging in a targeted 'war on men'?

 

Or is it, maybe a little more complicated - both when it comes to gender, and when it comes to race.

 

You're also missing the fact that almost 50% of murders are committed by blacks. Which, all else being equal, would mean that per incidence of murder black people are less than half as likely as white people to be killed by the cops. Yet somehow it's an epidemic of police killing black people.

[Meshugger]

I think we all know that most of these riots stem from long periods of over-violence by the cops, which in turn will not be solved until long-term changes are made in recruitment (trigger-happy ones should fall out pretty quickly) and in terms of engagement.

 

At the same time, the parents of these kids in the african-american community should teach their kids through rigorous training and discipline that that kind of behaviour is no way acceptable.

[PrimeJunta]

I always laugh a little when Serious People say that Violence Is Unacceptable only at the point when their community is at the receiving end.

[Malcador]

Nothing like burning down businesses in your community to fight the power.

 

God damn phone touch screens.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Malcador

[Rosbjerg]

Nothing like burning dowm businesses in your community to fight the power.

 

Frustration and group think is always irrational. Nothing new there.. Martin Luther said it best.

 

"Now I wanted to say something about the fact that we have lived over these last two or three summers with agony and we have seen our cities going up in flames. And I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non­-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view.

I’m absolutely convinced that a riot merely intensifies the fears of the white community while relieving the guilt. And I feel that we must always work with an effective, powerful weapon and method that brings about tangible results.

 

But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

[Malcador]

Yeah, expected as much in response, though at this case I'm not sure the failure is completely external to them. Well, they're just digging a pit for them to wallow in in the future, I guess. Heh, hopefully the Baltimore mayor gets turfed at the next opportunity and that with the Guard out things calm down.

 

In the lighter side of things in Baltimore

 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Malcador

[Ineth]

I always laugh a little when Serious People say that Violence Is Unacceptable only at the point when their community is at the receiving end.

Is it though? Looks to me like the rioters always trash their own neighborhoods, not mine.

[Ineth]

I think we all know that most of these riots stem from long periods of over-violence by the cops, which in turn will not be solved until long-term changes are made in recruitment (trigger-happy ones should fall out pretty quickly) and in terms of engagement.

 

Certainly, though I don't think police department policies alone can fix this. There needs to be a shift in the Overton window and different laws regarding the status of citizens and police, because:

 

 

Some context.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/

 

To serve and to protect, yes indeedy.

 

This would never have happened if people were allowed to shoot cops.

 

There's truth to that.

 

In the 60s, groups of Black Panther guys in their pickup trucks and armed with rifles, were peacefully following police cars to make sure the police officers didn't harass or abuse civilians.¹

 

Today, this would be unimaginable. If someone tried that, the cops would call in backup with "heavy artillery" and kill or violently arrest the group simply for "being a threat", and wouldn't have to face any consequences.

 

The first step towards "fixing" our society will need to be a reaffirmation of the sovereignty of the individual citizen over their own life and affairs, and reducing the government and its enforcing agencies form the status of a sovereign to that of public servants with the absolute minimum necessary amount of power.

 

Of course the 'progressive' left will never acknowledge this, because they are too infatuated with their fantasies of shaping said government power for coercively implementing their vision of "social progress" and economic redistribution.

 

And if the left had their way, cops would not merely be legally privileged gun wielders, they'd be the only ones allowed to wield guns.

 

---------------

¹⁾ If this sounds like an endorsement of the Black Panthers, let me clarify that my admiration of them only extends to the early days of their organization, before they went bat-**** crazy Maoist.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Ineth

[Gfted1]

This would never happen if we were only allowed to carpet bomb the area with pepper spray. smh.

[Malcador]

Visions of B-52s pulling Arclight missions with giant 500lb tanks of pepper spray.

[Meshugger]

 

I think we all know that most of these riots stem from long periods of over-violence by the cops, which in turn will not be solved until long-term changes are made in recruitment (trigger-happy ones should fall out pretty quickly) and in terms of engagement.

 

Certainly, though I don't think police department policies alone can fix this. There needs to be a shift in the Overton window and different laws regarding the status of citizens and police, because:

 

 

Some context.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/

 

To serve and to protect, yes indeedy.

 

This would never have happened if people were allowed to shoot cops.

 

There's truth to that.

 

In the 60s, groups of Black Panther guys in their pickup trucks and armed with rifles, were peacefully following police cars to make sure the police officers didn't harass or abuse civilians.¹

 

Today, this would be unimaginable. If someone tried that, the cops would call in backup with "heavy artillery" and kill or violently arrest the group simply for "being a threat", and wouldn't have to face any consequences.

 

The first step towards "fixing" our society will need to be a reaffirmation of the sovereignty of the individual citizen over their own life and affairs, and reducing the government and its enforcing agencies form the status of a sovereign to that of public servants with the absolute minimum necessary amount of power.

 

Of course the 'progressive' left will never acknowledge this, because they are too infatuated with their fantasies of shaping said government power for coercively implementing their vision of "social progress" and economic redistribution.

 

And if the left had their way, cops would not merely be legally privileged gun wielders, they'd be the only ones allowed to wield guns.

 

---------------

¹⁾ If this sounds like an endorsement of the Black Panthers, let me clarify that my admiration of them only extends to the early days of their organization, before they went bat-**** crazy Maoist.

 

 

Whatever happened to the Black Panthers? Didn't the founder get kicked out or something?

[PrimeJunta]

That Wild West fantasy of turning society into a bunch of armed gangs "policing" each other also never fails to amaze me. They've tried it in a bunch of places and it's nowhere near as much fun as it sounds. My wife grew up in one, Beirut during the civil war. They were lucky, the worst that happened to them was a stray shell blowing up their TV. 

[Gfted1]

Visions of B-52s pulling Arclight missions with giant 500lb tanks of pepper spray.

 

/drool

 

Bet all that righteous indignation would melt away in an instant.

[Rosbjerg]

Yeah, expected as much in response, though at this case I'm not sure the failure is completely external to them. 

 

Of course not, but for people without a proper education - and even one as simple as a good upbringing - can have a real hard time navigating civil liberties. They'll default to what they see around them, hopelessness... and that's why they are so easily riled to what we see as improper action, they need agency (how very eurocentric I know), unfortunately that agency often comes in groupthink violence.

 

edit: For anecdotal advice, I didn't grow up in an academic family and have had a hard time adjusting to university - the culture is just very different. I can only imagine how that must feel coming from a ghetto.

[PrimeJunta]

@Gfted1 and others: Yeah 'cuz that worked so well in Iraq and Afghanistan where you actually were allowed to do it.

 

Seriously, grow the **** up. This isn't a joke. Do you actually want an organized violent insurrection on your hands?

Edited April 28, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Malcador]

You think he was seriously suggesting that ? Gfted1's shtick is all about pepper spray and drones for enforcement of laws. I guess his lack of gravitas undercuts the real results this thread will have.

 

Of course not, but for people without a proper education - and even one as simple as a good upbringing - can have a real hard time navigating civil liberties. They'll default to what they see around them, hopelessness... and that's why they are so easily riled to what we see as improper action, they need agency (how very eurocentric I know), unfortunately that agency often comes in groupthink violence.

 

edit: For anecdotal advice, I didn't grow up in an academic family and have had a hard time adjusting to university - the culture is just very different. I can only imagine how that must feel coming from a ghetto.

Yep pretty much, a garbage area will tend to produce garbage people. Just baffling watching some of these idiots hurl bricks they've probably torn some building up to get or sabotage fire hoses (I guess the FD should just let them burn?).

[PrimeJunta]

Tangent, since the Wild West fantasists got me thinkin' about Lebanon.

 

A lot of Lebanese are Shi'ites. They were the historical underclass. Apart from a couple of super-rich landowning families, they were dirt-poor, uneducated, and ostracized. The other Lebanese groups used them as seasonal/unskilled labor and scapegoats. Many turned to crime -- usually petty theft, vandalism, cheating, and what have you. Then the PLO moved in. The Palestinians are mostly Sunnis and Christians and they continued to treat the local Shi'ites like crap. So when the Israelis invaded to kick out the PLO, many of them welcomed them in.

 

The Israelis continued to treat them like "garbage people."

 

By then, they had started to self-organize. This guy called Moussa Sadr had started setting up a network providing education and minimal social services to the Shi'ites. Then Qaddafi had him murdered.

 

That finally pissed them off enough to get them to give up on this nonviolence bullcrap and get real.

 

And so the Hezbollah was born.

 

I don't know how long you can push things in 'Murica, but do it long enough and eventually you will have gotten rid of all the nice grandmas and Martin Luther Kings, and will only have the seriously angry, seriously ruthless, and seriously cunning left. And at that point, no amount of B52's distributing pepper spray – or stronger stuff – is going to put the genie back in the bottle.

[213374U]

Of course the 'progressive' left will never acknowledge this, because they are too infatuated with their fantasies of shaping said government power for coercively implementing their vision of "social progress" and economic redistribution.

 

And if the left had their way, cops would not merely be legally privileged gun wielders, they'd be the only ones allowed to wield guns.

 

What is this "progressive left" you keep referring to in these bogeyman posts you make? Because the American left I'm aware of is very much for the repeal of PATRIOT, the de-militarization of police forces, the reduction of the budget dedicated to the intelligence apparatus, etc. Pretty much the opposite of your fear mongering narrative.

 

I'm genuinely curious. Do you have any links to illustrate that more or less mainstream left groups in the US aim to do what you suggest?

 

Disclaimer: I am not American, and therefore functionally illiterate regarding the American political landscape.

[Malcador]

Still seems like plenty of people on the left are around in the US who aren't trying to live out their revolutionary fantasies and are trying to work change in a "calm" manner. Heh, for "garbage people" it's basically the Broken Windows theory - and people burning stuff and looting are garbage (there's a famous More quote on this). Hm, I am not sure if force wouldn't work, in theory, though I guess it'd reach levels of war crimes to strangle them via food and water or just killing them Roman style.

 

Not sure what the solution would be to this though, in terms of a practical one, being outside of the US.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Malcador

[Gfted1]

@Gfted1 and others: Yeah 'cuz that worked so well in Iraq and Afghanistan where you actually were allowed to do it.

 

Seriously, grow the **** up. This isn't a joke. Do you actually want an organized violent insurrection on your hands?

 

Rofl, these riots are a joke to me. Some random dude dies and the community response is to steal toilet paper?  The rioters have nothing to do with civil liberties and everything to do with opportunistic crime. They deserve nothing less then the full force of our riot control forces.

 

Armed insurrection? Come back from the navel gazing PJ!

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah there's nobody in mainstream American politics even close to stuff like that. 

 

I'm all for shaping governmental power so it can be used to redistribute wealth more equitably. 

 

But then so is everybody outside the extreme political fringes where I'm from. Even the conservatives. The only disagreement is about what the optimal distribution of wealth is.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/world/europe/speeding-in-finland-can-cost-a-fortune-if-you-already-have-one.html?_r=0

Edited April 28, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Malcador]

Or just rally some of their moms