Shadows are absolutely imbalanced for lvl 1 mobs

[drty]

- All 4 defenses are extremely good. Add big damage resistance to this. If you have no fire abilities then every shadow can mitigate tons of damage of your low level party. Like a tank.

- Blink ability has absurdly short cooldown. Same shadow can use it every 8-10 seconds (maybe bug).

- Daze debuff is too powerful to make it applicable by every hit. Basically, it turns any of your party members into a cripple effectively disabling it.

 

And all of this is just for one first-level mob? Really?

[golbeeze]

If you can't kill them, then come back when stronger?

[Xosmi]

- All 4 defenses are extremely good. Add big damage resistance to this. If you have no fire abilities then every shadow can mitigate tons of damage of your low level party. Like a tank.

- Blink ability has absurdly short cooldown. Same shadow can use it every 8-10 seconds (maybe bug).

- Daze debuff is too powerful to make it applicable by every hit. Basically, it turns any of your party members into a cripple effectively disabling it.

 

And all of this is just for one first-level mob? Really?

 

they're kinda tough, but there's ways to deal with them.

 

-there's a cloack that can spawn as random loot on the 2nd lvl of the black hound that reduces cold damage taken, putting it on your tank should help a lot.

-they're weak against fire damage, hit them with your fire based spells or get some fire-lash enchanted weapons asap

-if all else fails, put the rest of your party in a safe corner, then kite them on a character that uses a bow.

 

i only ever had problems with shadows when i first entered the stronghold, and that was only because i was rushing to get all the companions.

There's plenty to do to gain a few levels before you encounter shadows in big enough numbers to be an issue - once you have a few levels under your belt they're not that hard to take care of.

[Tigranes]

They're not "level 1 mobs". 

 

You find enemies that are too tough for you congregating in an optional area (& a main quest area that is meant for levels ~4). Instead of going to other places, you insist that they should all be killable because they're level 1 in the bestiary. *shrug* I don't see why the latter is more reasonable than the former.

 

Would it be OK if they were apparently level 4? But wait, in that case they'd have way more health, because they're actually super super squishy when you can hit them right, so much that a level two character can take one out solo in a few hits. The only way for them to be how they are and be level 4 is if they had a ridiculously low algorithm for health calculation. But wait, are you saying that creatures should be created with artificially low or high numbers? In that case, isn't the whole 'monster level' thing meaningless? Finally, you might say, it's better to screw with the numbers so that at least I can see they are level 4. Well, we come back to the point: if you're having trouble beating something, the common sense response is to go kill something else and come back. 

[Ink Blot]

I don't recall even being able to meet them at level 1 unless you're talking about a certain ruin early on. And it should become obvious that this is a pace you may need to retreat from and return later after you've gained some levels. That's one of the things I felt Obs did right, at least: you can end up wandering into a situation that's too tough to handle. Do some quests, gain some levels, and come back to them later.

[Gromnir]

They're not "level 1 mobs". 

 

You find enemies that are too tough for you congregating in an optional area (& a main quest area that is meant for levels ~4). Instead of going to other places, you insist that they should all be killable because they're level 1 in the bestiary. *shrug* I don't see why the latter is more reasonable than the former.

as meaningless as it is, the bestiary indicates that shadows is "Level 1."

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps so many changes made to poe has been for no other reason than that people feel that X should be more like Y.  if having shadows show up as level 1 in the bestiary emasculates, then simple change number to 3 as a salve to pride would be the absolute easiest fix... evar.

 

edit: removed colon from quote

Edited April 26, 2015 by Gromnir

[Jean-Luc]

The shadows are fine whatever "level" they might be. 

[Eos]

You don't really state why it's wrong for them to be low level mobs. You just sorta imply it as if it were some natural law that low level mobs need to be push-overs. They are tough enemies and should be treated like that. Just because they kick your butt, doesn't mean that it's a bad design. Challenges make a game engaging and more fun

[drty]

Well, yes i understand that i can come back later with stronger party and kill them much easier. But it's not the point.

In other words... i've already tried the game many times on every possible difficulty choosing many different party setups (even tried it solo). And what i actually see is that shadows (shades too btw, but they are "level 5" at least and not so numerous at the beginning, so it's fine) are absurdly tough comparing to any other surrounding mobs. I just think that shadow should be nerfed a bit to make it in line with everything else.

[Cronstintein]

The ONE interesting/challenging mob in the whole game and you want it nerfed. 

 

I am disappoint.

[drty]

The ONE interesting/challenging mob in the whole game and you want it nerfed. 

 

I am disappoint.

 

I can't say the mechanic which perma-debuff you with some powerful effect on every hit is truly interesting. Like perma-daze from shadows, perma-stun from phantoms, or perma-paralyze from skirmishers and so on. I think some [- Accuracy] modifier for such effects could be good tuning to start with.

[Gromnir]

The ONE interesting/challenging mob in the whole game and you want it nerfed. 

 

I am disappoint.

didn't actual say he wanted it nerfed.  change bestiary entry.  you likely encounter shadows for the first time 'tween level 3 and level 4.  change bestiary entry so it reads as level 3... or 4.  

 

is true that shadows is a bit strong compared to other level 1 fodder... not that the label should make a difference.  heck, we had folks raging at us recently 'cause we suggested that calling the hard counters and insta-kills from bg2 a d&d & ie game legacy.  apparently, claiming that folks wanted more o' an ie feature is ok, but more o' a D&D feature is bad... even if they is the same thing.

 

people is nuts.

 

the bestiary entry is odd, but is harmless.  also takes next to nothing to change, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps ok, now he wants nerfed.  *shrug*

Edited April 26, 2015 by Gromnir

[Eos]

I just think that shadow should be nerfed a bit to make it in line with everything else.

 

But why? What is the potential gain from making everything the same? What does it give you? Is it more fun when it's a bland mix of sameness? When you don't have to think about any specific encounter because they're all the same anyway?

[Cronstintein]

Ah ok, maybe I misunderstood.  If you just want the bestiary entry changed, that's ok I guess!  But I definitely don't want the ONLY critter in the game that will actually go for back-line party members to have that ability removed.

[Cronstintein]

OP has very few posts, so maybe just started and got his ass handed to him in the temple.  Not that surprising, that's actually a pretty hard dungeon if you go to it right away.  But 20 hours laters after slogging through a multitude of bland trash mob fights that follow he'll think back on it fondly, I bet.

[drty]

 

The ONE interesting/challenging mob in the whole game and you want it nerfed. 

 

I am disappoint.

didn't actual say he wanted it nerfed.  change bestiary entry.  you likely encounter shadows for the first time 'tween level 3 and level 4.  change bestiary entry so it reads as level 3... or 4.  

 

is true that shadows is a bit strong compared to other level 1 fodder... not that the label should make a difference.  heck, we had folks raging at us recently 'cause we suggested that calling the hard counters and insta-kills from bg2 a d&d & ie game legacy.  apparently, claiming that folks wanted more o' an ie feature is ok, but more o' a D&D feature is bad... even if they is the same thing.

 

people is nuts.

 

the bestiary entry is odd, but is harmless.  also takes next to nothing to change, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps ok, now he wants nerfed.  *shrug*

 

 

Not just nerfed, but *balanced* in fact. I just love everything balanced. Was a humble druid in my previous lives i suppose. %)

[drty]

But why? What is the potential gain from making everything the same? What does it give you? Is it more fun when it's a bland mix of sameness? When you don't have to think about any specific encounter because they're all the same anyway?

 

 

What do you mean by "the same"? I don't suggest to remove any of the shadow abilities. I'm just saying that they don't need to be so extremely annoying. Shadow can blink directly to your back-line dudes ignoring the tank - and that's fine. They can apply Dazed debuff as a secondary effect of their attacks - it's fine too - but not always, not on every hit. It simply doesn't look fun.

 

Another example - you are also facing will-o-wisps early in the game - it can make your goon Confused (a powerful controlling effect) - but only periodically, not permanently - it gives you a window to make some actions between - to improve your Will defense for example - this game mechanic looks fun and balanced to me.

[Eos]

 

But why? What is the potential gain from making everything the same? What does it give you? Is it more fun when it's a bland mix of sameness? When you don't have to think about any specific encounter because they're all the same anyway?

 

 

What do you mean by "the same"? I don't suggest to remove any of the shadow abilities. I'm just saying that they don't need to be so extremely annoying. Shadow can blink directly to your back-line dudes ignoring the tank - and that's fine. They can apply Dazed debuff as a secondary effect of their attacks - it's fine too - but not always, not on every hit. It simply doesn't look fun.

 

Another example - you are also facing will-o-wisps early in the game - it can make your goon Confused (a powerful controlling effect) - but only periodically, not permanently - it gives you a window to make some actions between - to improve your Will defense for example - this game mechanic looks fun and balanced to me.

 

 

 

In the same way Shadows require a certain tactic. You can outrange their teleport, for example. Or you can use disable and focus fire to burn down those that teleport to your back lines. Or you adapt your strategy by turning your tank+X group into a more balanced one where your back line doesn't fall over when a mob looks at them funny.

[IndiraLightfoot]

That cloak is fantastic! I kept it throughout my whole solo game, so I certainly got lucky. I found mine up on a certain ruin ledge in a certain neck of the woods very early. It's very handy.

[Xosmi]

The ONE interesting/challenging mob in the whole game and you want it nerfed. 

 

I am disappoint.

 

I know, right? Instead, keep shades as they are, and