Why must you oppose Raedric VII?

[Luckmann]

When you face Raedric VII, this is what you see:

 

 

Yes, I realize that once I've opposed him, you get the chance to join him. Hilariously, one of the options is to end the feud then and there, as a Bleak Walker Paladin, even though there's probably a thousand other situations where such a response would've been more warranted, and a Bleak Walker Paladin is probably one of the more likely ones to want to join Raedric, but.. I'm getting sidetracked.

My point being there is no way to not initially oppose Raedric.

When I went into the keep, it was with the intent to talk to Raedric. The guards outside were foolish and didn't stand aside, so I killed them, and then there were more and more people willing to throw themselves on my sword. These things happen.

And then when I face Raedric, there is no Clever line about just wanting to see him, and even the most aggressive response isn't Aggressive, and forget about being Rational. My aim was to speak to Raedric on the issue, and see what he had to say for himself. I didn't agree to Kolsc's plan, when he talked to me, and I haven't vowed to kill Raedric, and I'm not really upset by the things he's done. I mean, c'mon, I'm a Deathlike Bleak Walker.

But I'm also an Aristocrat, and a Paladin, and Raedric has a legitimate claim on the throne on which he sits. There's an Aristocrat line you can feed Kolsc when he meets you - it would've been appropriate to have one here, too. Yet the only way for me to join him is to.. change my mind? Before I even make it up? I have to tell him I'm there to stop him, or tell him that Kolsc didn't send me? Well, Kolsc did, I'm just not there to do his bidding.

It's another quite weird conversation tree that seems to make very strong, very adamant assumptions about my motivations or goals.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[IndiraLightfoot]

I agree that there could be a line or two in there that more openly support him. However, without spoiling anything, there are ways to support him, and in my latest playthrough, such actions even shows in the "saga" playing out as the ending, with pics and all.

[Rostere]

Yeah, I noticed this problem as well, incidentally also on a playthrough with an Aristocrat character.

[Luckmann]

I agree that there could be a line or two in there that more openly support him. However, without spoiling anything, there are ways to support him, and in my latest playthrough, such actions even shows in the "saga" playing out as the ending, with pics and all.

 

Yes, of course, I know you can support him, I just think that this dialogue is.. weird.

 

Yeah, I noticed this problem as well, incidentally also on a playthrough with an Aristocrat character.

 

Aristocrats are bestocrats.

[gkathellar]

Well, "Kolsc didn't send me," comes close, but yeah, it's weird.

[Karkarov]

It isn't that big a deal to me.  When you realize he murdered his own wife in cold blood for pretty much no reason any chance of my initial character playing nice with him went out the window.  Of course I wasn't going to play by "hey kill my cousin for me so I can just take over and muck it up worse" Kolsc's rules.  So I offed him too.  Too bad Raedric is down with undeadyness.

[Dadalama]

Yeah in order to actually support when you see him you actually have to go talk to Osya first and say "Well can I help"

 

That's silly....

[Luckmann]

It isn't that big a deal to me.  When you realize he murdered his own wife in cold blood for pretty much no reason any chance of my initial character playing nice with him went out the window.  Of course I wasn't going to play by "hey kill my cousin for me so I can just take over and muck it up worse" Kolsc's rules.  So I offed him too.  Too bad Raedric is down with undeadyness.

 

I'm definitely going to have some characters that will be all about the murdering of Raedric, but from an in-universe perspective, offing his wife can be entirely understandable, and with the character I'm currently playing, a deathlike bleak walker aristocrat, a traditionalist that really hate it when people try to set him up to do things (just ask the vailian trader in Defiance Bay oh no wait he's dead), I'll probably end up working with Raedric, just like I'd probably end up working with the Doemenels if the game didn't insist on bugging out on me.

 

My point being, that I don't really care as much as I think it's weird and inconsistent. It doesn't matter to you, because you're not siding with Raedric anyway, but it doesn't mean that there's no issue. I'd have a problem with any dialogue or quest that didn't offer a variety of solutions or approaches as appropriate to multiple different characters. Hell, I'm the kind of guy that feels physically ill when I do despicable things in games (such as hurling the child to the pavement, or stealing teddy bears in FO3), but I still love that I *could* do those things.

 

And I think it's super-odd that there's no "organic" choice for my character in this instance. It's not a strange or out-of-place sequence of events; Kolsc approached me, I asked him what right he had to rebel against his rightful lord, he told me to consider it, I decided to consider it by seeking out Raedric and talk to him, I was stopped at the gate, told the guards to step aside or I'd spill their guts on the ground, then I spilled their guts on the ground, went inside to talk to the man, and was faced with this.

 

It's not devastating, just.. kinda.. odd. It could be improved, so I brought it up.

 

Yeah in order to actually support when you see him you actually have to go talk to Osya first and say "Well can I help"

 

That's silly....

See, I don't even know who Osya is. I found some Berathian robes on another floor, but I didn't pursue it, because I'm a Bleak Walker, so I'm not going to skulk about anyway, and I had priorities - I'm going to talk to Raedric. Why would I run around the whole castle like some kind of rogue or mind-thief, before I face Raedric? I just wanted to talk.

 

To immediately offer your services might be a bit odd, but there should at least be an option to tell him that you're there to talk about the situation and that you met someone named Kolsc. Or that you don't trust Kolsc. Or, as an Aristocrat, to tell him straight out that you support him, since he's the rightful heir. Or, if you're a Mercenary or Goldpact Knight, just offer your services.

 

But this, as it is, is just kinda.. odd.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[communard]

"Kolsc didn't send me" is the non-opposing option.

[Karkarov]

See, I don't even know who Osya is.

The chick in the dungeons diddling all the undead.

[Psychevore]

 

It isn't that big a deal to me.  When you realize he murdered his own wife in cold blood for pretty much no reason any chance of my initial character playing nice with him went out the window.  Of course I wasn't going to play by "hey kill my cousin for me so I can just take over and muck it up worse" Kolsc's rules.  So I offed him too.  Too bad Raedric is down with undeadyness.

 

I'm definitely going to have some characters that will be all about the murdering of Raedric, but from an in-universe perspective, offing his wife can be entirely understandable, and with the character I'm currently playing, a deathlike bleak walker aristocrat, a traditionalist that really hate it when people try to set him up to do things (just ask the vailian trader in Defiance Bay oh no wait he's dead), I'll probably end up working with Raedric, just like I'd probably end up working with the Doemenels if the game didn't insist on bugging out on me.

 

My point being, that I don't really care as much as I think it's weird and inconsistent. It doesn't matter to you, because you're not siding with Raedric anyway, but it doesn't mean that there's no issue. I'd have a problem with any dialogue or quest that didn't offer a variety of solutions or approaches as appropriate to multiple different characters. Hell, I'm the kind of guy that feels physically ill when I do despicable things in games (such as hurling the child to the pavement, or stealing teddy bears in FO3), but I still love that I *could* do those things.

 

And I think it's super-odd that there's no "organic" choice for my character in this instance. It's not a strange or out-of-place sequence of events; Kolsc approached me, I asked him what right he had to rebel against his rightful lord, he told me to consider it, I decided to consider it by seeking out Raedric and talk to him, I was stopped at the gate, told the guards to step aside or I'd spill their guts on the ground, then I spilled their guts on the ground, went inside to talk to the man, and was faced with this.

 

It's not devastating, just.. kinda.. odd. It could be improved, so I brought it up.

 

Yeah in order to actually support when you see him you actually have to go talk to Osya first and say "Well can I help"

 

That's silly....

See, I don't even know who Osya is. I found some Berathian robes on another floor, but I didn't pursue it, because I'm a Bleak Walker, so I'm not going to skulk about anyway, and I had priorities - I'm going to talk to Raedric. Why would I run around the whole castle like some kind of rogue or mind-thief, before I face Raedric? I just wanted to talk.

 

To immediately offer your services might be a bit odd, but there should at least be an option to tell him that you're there to talk about the situation and that you met someone named Kolsc. Or that you don't trust Kolsc. Or, as an Aristocrat, to tell him straight out that you support him, since he's the rightful heir. Or, if you're a Mercenary or Goldpact Knight, just offer your services.

 

But this, as it is, is just kinda.. odd.

 

You're a Bleak Walker, you don't talk. You kill, maybe ask question later.

 

Which is exactly what you got, is it not?

[Luckmann]

"Kolsc didn't send me" is the non-opposing option.

 

But. He did. That's the problem. Kolsc did send you.

 

 

 

 

It isn't that big a deal to me.  When you realize he murdered his own wife in cold blood for pretty much no reason any chance of my initial character playing nice with him went out the window.  Of course I wasn't going to play by "hey kill my cousin for me so I can just take over and muck it up worse" Kolsc's rules.  So I offed him too.  Too bad Raedric is down with undeadyness.

 

I'm definitely going to have some characters that will be all about the murdering of Raedric, but from an in-universe perspective, offing his wife can be entirely understandable, and with the character I'm currently playing, a deathlike bleak walker aristocrat, a traditionalist that really hate it when people try to set him up to do things (just ask the vailian trader in Defiance Bay oh no wait he's dead), I'll probably end up working with Raedric, just like I'd probably end up working with the Doemenels if the game didn't insist on bugging out on me.

 

My point being, that I don't really care as much as I think it's weird and inconsistent. It doesn't matter to you, because you're not siding with Raedric anyway, but it doesn't mean that there's no issue. I'd have a problem with any dialogue or quest that didn't offer a variety of solutions or approaches as appropriate to multiple different characters. Hell, I'm the kind of guy that feels physically ill when I do despicable things in games (such as hurling the child to the pavement, or stealing teddy bears in FO3), but I still love that I *could* do those things.

 

And I think it's super-odd that there's no "organic" choice for my character in this instance. It's not a strange or out-of-place sequence of events; Kolsc approached me, I asked him what right he had to rebel against his rightful lord, he told me to consider it, I decided to consider it by seeking out Raedric and talk to him, I was stopped at the gate, told the guards to step aside or I'd spill their guts on the ground, then I spilled their guts on the ground, went inside to talk to the man, and was faced with this.

 

It's not devastating, just.. kinda.. odd. It could be improved, so I brought it up.

 

Yeah in order to actually support when you see him you actually have to go talk to Osya first and say "Well can I help"

 

That's silly....

See, I don't even know who Osya is. I found some Berathian robes on another floor, but I didn't pursue it, because I'm a Bleak Walker, so I'm not going to skulk about anyway, and I had priorities - I'm going to talk to Raedric. Why would I run around the whole castle like some kind of rogue or mind-thief, before I face Raedric? I just wanted to talk.

 

To immediately offer your services might be a bit odd, but there should at least be an option to tell him that you're there to talk about the situation and that you met someone named Kolsc. Or that you don't trust Kolsc. Or, as an Aristocrat, to tell him straight out that you support him, since he's the rightful heir. Or, if you're a Mercenary or Goldpact Knight, just offer your services.

 

But this, as it is, is just kinda.. odd.

 

You're a Bleak Walker, you don't talk. You kill, maybe ask question later.

 

Which is exactly what you got, is it not?

 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like it. I just think that it's odd that it shows up now of all the places in the game. This is so far the first time I've seen a Bleak Walker choice. It makes sense, but it still feels out of place because out of all the times it could've shown up, it shows up now.

[mystang89]

It isn't that big a deal to me. When you realize he murdered his own wife in cold blood for pretty much no reason any chance of my initial character playing nice with him went out the window. Of course I wasn't going to play by "hey kill my cousin for me so I can just take over and muck it up worse" Kolsc's rules. So I offed him too. Too bad Raedric is down with undeadyness.

I got some option to hear him out but since I had already seen what he did to his wife I didn't care what he had to say, (though I an still curious) and I killed him. My next play through I'll see what he did to his wife, get upset and kill him again and STILL not know what that option does lol.

[Karkarov]

I got some option to hear him out but since I had already seen what he did to his wife I didn't care what he had to say, (though I an still curious) and I killed him. My next play through I'll see what he did to his wife, get upset and kill him again and STILL not know what that option does lol.

He just asks you to kill Kolsc on his behalf.

[Luckmann]

And then you go stab Kolsc in the face in a small shack in the woods in an area you've already been.

The "Side with Raedric"-option seems very uninspiring, and even locks you out of a lot of Raedric's Keep content. It's weird.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

See, I don't even know who Osya is.

The chick in the dungeons diddling all the undead.

 

No beating around the bush there - describing it to the tee, I see. I laughed out loud.

[Katarack21]

"Kolsc is your cousin?"

I've never heard a stronger statement of opposition to a person in my life.

[Luckmann]

"Kolsc is your cousin?"

 

I've never heard a stronger statement of opposition to a person in my life.

...What?

[Exyll]

Also the 'Kolsc didnt send me' line should be flagged as a lie since there's literally no way to get to the Keep without encountering him, he'll even approach you in town if you do the Mothers Plea quest before heading out there

[Katarack21]

 

"Kolsc is your cousin?"

 

I've never heard a stronger statement of opposition to a person in my life.

...What?

 

Just making the point that the dialogue options as listed there are not all lines stating opposition to Raedric or any problem with him or his plans. Both "Kolsc is your cousin?" and "Kolsc didn't send me." are fairly neutral dialogue options that then open further dialogue, including allying with Raedric. They at least provide the ability to be neither confrontational nor immediately all-in; you get some information, then make your choice.

[mystang89]

Also the 'Kolsc didnt send me' line should be flagged as a lie since there's literally no way to get to the Keep without encountering him, he'll even approach you in town if you do the Mothers Plea quest before heading out there

I didn't really consider it a lie. He asked me to go, I told him he wasn't going to tell me what to do. Me ending up there had nothing to do with him asking me. In fact I actually didn't end up making it there until I had already cleared all maps down to and a few past defiance bay.

Edited April 27, 2015 by mystang89

[Katarack21]

I didn't consider it a lie because I was literally on my way up that path and would have went there regardless of what Kolsc did or did not say. He didn't send me, he just happened to run into me on the way and encourage my visit.

[Luckmann]

 

 

"Kolsc is your cousin?"

 

I've never heard a stronger statement of opposition to a person in my life.

...What?

 

Just making the point that the dialogue options as listed there are not all lines stating opposition to Raedric or any problem with him or his plans. Both "Kolsc is your cousin?" and "Kolsc didn't send me." are fairly neutral dialogue options that then open further dialogue, including allying with Raedric. They at least provide the ability to be neither confrontational nor immediately all-in; you get some information, then make your choice.

 

Yes? So? Of course there are dialogue lines that do not result in direct confrontation. It's covered in the thread. The point is that you either oppose Raedric (through 4-5 different options; some before reaching this particular set of choices, such as immediately attacking him because Bleak Walker) or you choose an option that likely makes no sense or is a lie.

 

Also, "Kolsc is your cousin?" does not result in further dialogue that allows you to ally with Raedric. If you didn't notice, it's greyed out for a reason - it's already been used once.

 

 

Also the 'Kolsc didnt send me' line should be flagged as a lie since there's literally no way to get to the Keep without encountering him, he'll even approach you in town if you do the Mothers Plea quest before heading out there

I didn't really consider it a lie. He asked me to go, I told him he wasn't going to tell me what to do. Me ending up there had nothing to do with him asking me. In fact I actually didn't end up making it there until I had already cleared all maps down to and a few past defiance bay.

 

I didn't consider it a lie because I was literally on my way up that path and would have went there regardless of what Kolsc did or did not say. He didn't send me, he just happened to run into me on the way and encourage my visit.

I agree, the line shouldn't be flagged as a lie, because it's entirely possible for it to be true. Yes, you'll run into Kolsc always, at some point, apparently, but it's entirely possible that you were already going there. The events at Gilded Vale really tries to hook you to go there to the point where it's almost odd that you have to fight or sneak your way in.

 

I, too, avoided both Esternwood and Raedric's Keep until mid-Act 2, at which point I was around lvl 9.

 

But.. maybe there should also be an option that is flagged as a lie. In case you actually want to lie.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Luckmann

[mystang89]

 

Lol, you steam rolled it even easier tdid i did then. I was doing the fight thinking, "if I wasnt leveled so much this might actually be tricky." I was lvl 6 or 7

Edited April 27, 2015 by mystang89

[Karkarov]

I don't know Luckman I talked to Kolsc first before getting there too but in all honesty I was already in route and I felt pretty so so about Kolsc the whole time.  At first I thought he was just a rabble rouser and on meeting him I thought he was a bit of a power grabber/fairly questionable.  So no Kolsc really didn't send me.

 

The fact that I killed both of them should tell you what I thought of the ruler candidates .