Regarding NPCs (pre-made Companions)

[gus_ral]

Hello all!!!

 

That`s my first post on the forum and since I didn`t find any topic with this subject here it`s...

 

I`m Brazilian, so sorry for a possible bad english

 

I have played all RPG's games since BG, and it's still my favorite kind of game...

 

Pillars of Eternity seems just a great one and possible in my top 10 list, but there's one thing I would like to put in conversation, the NPC's companions...

 

I think they are great, all of then, really well made, in almost all previous RPG games, normally just half of the companions options are really well made, but for PoE I believe all of then are quite good, at least above expectations, I just would like to have 1 for each class but well that's OK, maybe they manage to create some more in time and give then to us (hope as gift )

 

But regarding the ones that already exist I would like to request two things, for a new update/patch of the game...

 

First, have them start at level 1 when you get them and after that level them up to their proper start level, for example, let's say Eothas start at level 2 (I think that's his start level, or 3, don't remember), what I want is at the first time he enters my party he is at level 1, but with a level up flag, and then I can level him up to his planned start level and start to use him the way I want... I think this would be great, but I will talk more about that after my second request/idea...

 

Second, I believe everyone can agree that their stats are poor, I really hate Max/Min, I think it's just stupid and I really believe that the Min stats should be 8, I can't accept (being a pen 'n paper RPG player) having a Paladin with 3 INT, he wouldn't even manage to talk!! He would be like a dog, I really think that the developers should create an update to make INT 8- PC's don't manage to understand any dialogue and have really bad dialogue options (like totally miistypo and things like that), PER 8- would have just a dark screen since they are likely blind or something... well but that's not the point, I understand they made that so Power-Players can enjoy they all-around combos... But still I think the companions (NPCs) stats should be rebalance...

 

What I propose is something like a voting topic where we could vote for one of three better options for stats on each companion, no max/min, just a better and more balanced division of points in order to make then even better and more likely to be used even in IW + PotD dificulties. Not only because we pay for then but because they were very well created by one of the best group of RPG developers in the world!

 

What I want is make those NPC's Companions really useful even in the hardest dificulties of the game in order to make everyone really want to have one of then instead a hired companion (hollowborn )

 

What you guys think???

[KDubya]

What you want to do is get the IE mod off of Nexus.

 

Prior to install find which file it changes and make a copy of that and keep it somewhere else. This way you can always copy the original file back in and remove the mod. Especially important with GoG version as it will check your PoE version and will not recognize the IE mod. You then have to paste back in the original file, get the GoG patch  and then re-install IE mod, possibly needing an updated version.

 

This will give you access to the console in game where you can un-level your companions and even change their class if you want to. Another console lets you assign gods and paladin orders and you can even change their stats to however you want them.

 

With this mod you can customize the companions as you see fit as well as experience their in party banter and personal quests.

[gus_ral]

Hey this seems nice, but this would bug the Achievements and things like that???

[Zwiebelchen]

The NPCs are not as bad as you think. The impact of attributes in this game is absolutely overrated.

[gus_ral]

I agree with you, I just think that a improvement would be nice, not too much just a few...

 

I like the idea of the IE Mod but still I think would be nice/better to have this already in place in an update/patch

[cctobias]

The NPCs are not as bad as you think. The impact of attributes in this game is absolutely overrated.

Wrong.  

 

The way the math behind defenses works makes the defensive attributes extremely impactful.  This is not an opinion, its mathematically provable.  Each point of defense get stronger and stronger.  So while there may be little difference betwneen 1 defense and 0 defense that 1 point difference becomes literally 100 times more impactful on the high end of the mitigation/effective health curve.

 

The difference betwen 17 and 18 might is not that big and follows an obvious linear curve.  Defenses do not.

[KDubya]

Hey this seems nice, but this would bug the Achievements and things like that???

 

 

I have the GoG version so there are no achievements for me.

 

From what I read at Nexus using the IE mod does not turn off steam achievements the way "Iroll20s"  does.

[Crucis]

Hello all!!!

 

That`s my first post on the forum and since I didn`t find any topic with this subject here it`s...

 

I`m Brazilian, so sorry for a possible bad english

 

I have played all RPG's games since BG, and it's still my favorite kind of game...

 

Pillars of Eternity seems just a great one and possible in my top 10 list, but there's one thing I would like to put in conversation, the NPC's companions...

 

I think they are great, all of then, really well made, in almost all previous RPG games, normally just half of the companions options are really well made, but for PoE I believe all of then are quite good, at least above expectations, I just would like to have 1 for each class but well that's OK, maybe they manage to create some more in time and give then to us (hope as gift )

 

But regarding the ones that already exist I would like to request two things, for a new update/patch of the game...

 

First, have them start at level 1 when you get them and after that level them up to their proper start level, for example, let's say Eothas start at level 2 (I think that's his start level, or 3, don't remember), what I want is at the first time he enters my party he is at level 1, but with a level up flag, and then I can level him up to his planned start level and start to use him the way I want... I think this would be great, but I will talk more about that after my second request/idea...

 

Second, I believe everyone can agree that their stats are poor, I really hate Max/Min, I think it's just stupid and I really believe that the Min stats should be 8, I can't accept (being a pen 'n paper RPG player) having a Paladin with 3 INT, he wouldn't even manage to talk!! He would be like a dog, I really think that the developers should create an update to make INT 8- PC's don't manage to understand any dialogue and have really bad dialogue options (like totally miistypo and things like that), PER 8- would have just a dark screen since they are likely blind or something... well but that's not the point, I understand they made that so Power-Players can enjoy they all-around combos... But still I think the companions (NPCs) stats should be rebalance...

 

What I propose is something like a voting topic where we could vote for one of three better options for stats on each companion, no max/min, just a better and more balanced division of points in order to make then even better and more likely to be used even in IW + PotD dificulties. Not only because we pay for then but because they were very well created by one of the best group of RPG developers in the world!

 

What I want is make those NPC's Companions really useful even in the hardest dificulties of the game in order to make everyone really want to have one of then instead a hired companion (hollowborn )

 

What you guys think???

 

1. I agree that it would have been nice to have at least one companion in each of the 11 classes.  But I imagine that that would have hiked up the production costs, perhaps more than they could have afforded.

 

2. I'm with you on min stats.  I also believe that there should be min floor stats, probably 8, for regular people, aka "Kith".  Below 8 should be for various animals and other creatures.

 

OTOH, it'd be amusing as hell if all dialog options had a minimum requirement of 8 INT.  And if the character was below 8 INT, the only 2 dialog options were "uhhhhh" and "[Leave]".  And perhaps the person you were talking to would have some snarky remark about your lack of intelligence.

 

 

[knownastherat]

Floor is 2. How it compares to IQ? There is no way to tell. It is possible that 2 here equals 80 IQ ~ there are not mentally retarded here. 8 is arbitrary and can be anything, for example 2.  

[Crucis]

Floor is 2. How it compares to IQ? There is no way to tell. It is possible that 2 here equals 80 IQ ~ there are not mentally retarded here. 8 is arbitrary and can be anything, for example 2.  

 

Disagree.  Because then you'd have to have a scale that went into negative numbers to cover animals/creatures, some of which might be even less intelligent that the most mentally challenged human.  Thus the reason for suggesting 8 as the floor, so that there's room below it to cover all the rest of the animals/creatures in the game.

[Guest]

I'm more concerned about ability/talent selection than I am stats. Default stats are fine the way they are. Pallegina with Field Triage is a crime against humanity. /hyperbole

[Zwiebelchen]

 

The NPCs are not as bad as you think. The impact of attributes in this game is absolutely overrated.

Wrong.  

 

The way the math behind defenses works makes the defensive attributes extremely impactful.  This is not an opinion, its mathematically provable.  Each point of defense get stronger and stronger.  So while there may be little difference betwneen 1 defense and 0 defense that 1 point difference becomes literally 100 times more impactful on the high end of the mitigation/effective health curve.

 

The difference betwen 17 and 18 might is not that big and follows an obvious linear curve.  Defenses do not.

 

 

Defenses are different, right, but defenses always have two attributes mapped to them, so there's no real issue with that and you will hardly get a "broken build" out of the NPCs in terms of defenses. They all have a pretty balanced set of defenses. Deflection is different, but except for Eder and Pallegina, none of the NPCs are tank classes. And Pallegina has good resolve and perception, so she actually is quite optimized in her attribute spread for tanking purposes. Eder is different as he has high Might instead of Res/Per. But he makes more than up for that by just being a fighter alone and getting all the cheap OP +deflection talents of the fighter class.

[b0rsuk]

If you want to respec companions and erase their personality, what's the point of having companions at all ? You may as well use a fully constructed party.

[knownastherat]

 

Floor is 2. How it compares to IQ? There is no way to tell. It is possible that 2 here equals 80 IQ ~ there are not mentally retarded here. 8 is arbitrary and can be anything, for example 2.  

 

Disagree.  Because then you'd have to have a scale that went into negative numbers to cover animals/creatures, some of which might be even less intelligent that the most mentally challenged human.  Thus the reason for suggesting 8 as the floor, so that there's room below it to cover all the rest of the animals/creatures in the game.

 

 

You can disagree any way you like but it does not change the fact that there is no way to tell how Int 2 compares to IQ. Unless you have some statement from developers clearing this up.

[Crucis]

 

 

Floor is 2. How it compares to IQ? There is no way to tell. It is possible that 2 here equals 80 IQ ~ there are not mentally retarded here. 8 is arbitrary and can be anything, for example 2.  

 

Disagree.  Because then you'd have to have a scale that went into negative numbers to cover animals/creatures, some of which might be even less intelligent that the most mentally challenged human.  Thus the reason for suggesting 8 as the floor, so that there's room below it to cover all the rest of the animals/creatures in the game.

 

 

You can disagree any way you like but it does not change the fact that there is no way to tell how Int 2 compares to IQ. Unless you have some statement from developers clearing this up.

 

 

Whatever.

 

 

But when you have a floor INT value that's lower than a number of animals in the game, something's wrong.  It's as simple as that. 

[gus_ral]

If you want to respec companions and erase their personality, what's the point of having companions at all ? You may as well use a fully constructed party.

 

I really would dislike to change their personalities, that's why I just wanted a small re-balance, and that's why I didn't protect any assumption that it should be a MAX/MIN Stats on those NPC's...

 

I just wanted then to receive a small re-balance in order to make then as good as any created NPC (without max/min), so the use of Pre-Made Companions became even more common ground even in the hardest difficulties...

[knownastherat]

Well, Int 8 is intelligence of Antelope in this game.

 

It is not my problem nor fault there is disconnect by design. Intelligence, despite description, does not "represent logic and reasoning" (unless there are some magical antelopes capable of logic and reasoning) it represents Area of Effect, Duration and Will. That is it. In this light, talking about low intelligence and incoherent dialogues is well not too logical nor reasoned well.

[gus_ral]

 

 

 

Floor is 2. How it compares to IQ? There is no way to tell. It is possible that 2 here equals 80 IQ ~ there are not mentally retarded here. 8 is arbitrary and can be anything, for example 2.  

 

Disagree.  Because then you'd have to have a scale that went into negative numbers to cover animals/creatures, some of which might be even less intelligent that the most mentally challenged human.  Thus the reason for suggesting 8 as the floor, so that there's room below it to cover all the rest of the animals/creatures in the game.

 

 

You can disagree any way you like but it does not change the fact that there is no way to tell how Int 2 compares to IQ. Unless you have some statement from developers clearing this up.

 

 

Whatever.

 

 

But when you have a floor INT value that's lower than a number of animals in the game, something's wrong.  It's as simple as that. 

 

 

It's is exactly what happens on most RPG systems...

 

For example the stats of the Pre-Made Companions aren't max/min, you can see NPC's that are more or less smart than the others, and when you see their stats is a difference from 2 to 4 INT points, and all then under the 8-14 range... So what I believe is that they used the same range of D&D... where anything more than 16 is impressive, anything from 8-14 is commom ground (14 being like a very good but still possible to find in society), and anything less than 8 is below average, with 4-6 within the range of the smartest animals, and anything below that being used for quasi-unintelligent beings...

 

IMO

[Eos]

 

The NPCs are not as bad as you think. The impact of attributes in this game is absolutely overrated.

Wrong.  

 

The way the math behind defenses works makes the defensive attributes extremely impactful.  This is not an opinion, its mathematically provable.  Each point of defense get stronger and stronger.  So while there may be little difference betwneen 1 defense and 0 defense that 1 point difference becomes literally 100 times more impactful on the high end of the mitigation/effective health curve.

 

The difference betwen 17 and 18 might is not that big and follows an obvious linear curve.  Defenses do not.

 

 

Except that this thinking is wrong. It only shows that relative impact grows towards the end of the scale, nothing else. One attribute point contributes just as much absolute value in the low value range as it does in the high value range. This whole 'at high values every gain has exponentially more impact than the one before"-argument only shows that some people don't understand percentages really well