RPGCodex Review #1 - Hŵrpa Dwrp

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

so, it is your suggestion that Gromnir is demanding that the reviewer agree with obsidian?

 

HA!

 

...

 

HHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAA!

 

you are gonna have a hard time finding any single poster who has more frequent disagreed with the obsidians (which includes many former troika and black isle developers) than Gromnir.  the suggestion that we would demand agreement is high-larious.

 

disagree all he wishes.  am not certain what it is about some folks being so damned obdurate.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

No, you don't demand agreement with the devs, but with you. You just use the devs as an excuse as to why your opinion is right and everyone disagreeing is "ranting", despite them painstakingly spelling out their reasoning for having the opinion you disagree with.

 

we loathe bad reasoning.  enoch has observed that perhaps we are too focused on smiting the bad reason, rational or logic than we is with the issue at hand, and am expecting he is correct.  most folks who is reason challenged don't realize just how bass ackwards is their reasoning and it is almost impossible to get'em to recognize their faults.  case in point.

 

we not need folks to agree that the poe attribute mechanics is great.  after all, we would like to see changes made to that mechanic.  doesn't change the flaws in the review to acknowledge that we also see ways to improve the attributes.

 

you not need to agree with us either, but you is gonna need do a better job o' disagreeing with us if you wanna be taken serious.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

however, it is unfair to purposeful avoid recognition that a disliked feature has a reason behind its inclusion. HA! Good Fun!

How so?

 

I'll ask again. Exactly Why is it unfair for a reviewer to not give a **** about the reasons why the developers did what they did?

 

Is a Mass Effect 3 review UNFAIR simply because it bashes the game's ending without first taking into consideration Casey Hudson's explanation for it?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Stun

[Rumpelstilskin]

Just my personal opinion (well, obviously it is), but I think dumped stats should be heavily penalized, out of RP reasons if nothing else. An Int 3 person is not just a "nice fellow, only a bit slow", it's a clinical imbecile who can hardly tie his shoes, let alone participate in a tactically coordinated squad combat. Possibly there should be an accuracy penalty ("too dumb to use any weapon other than a club"), and maybe even a minimum allowed threshold somewhere around 6, with lower values reserved for monsters and people hit by temporary afflictions (so Int-draining spells would actually become quite painful).

[Stun]

You claimed that a con of three didn't have painful repercussions.

Because it doesn't. The slight loss in endurance is neither painful, nor does it equate to falling after 1 hit instead of 5. (your argument).

 

Feel free to statistically prove me wrong.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Stun

[Gromnir]

 

however, it is unfair to purposeful avoid recognition that a disliked feature has a reason behind its inclusion. HA! Good Fun!

How so?

 

I'll ask again. Exactly Why is it unfair for a reviewer to not give a **** about the reasons why the developers did what they did?

 

Is a Mass Effect 3 review UNFAIR simply because it bashes the game's ending before researching Casey Hudson's explanation for it?

 

didn't ask for research.  and if you need a definition o' fair, we suspect self-help is in order.  as we stated already, we have failed to get you to understand basic definitions more than once. am doubting that you are an MBA recipient, yes?  a decade or more ago a stanford professor did a study regarding notions o' fairness and discovered, almost as an amusing aside, that MBA recipients were disproportionate in their failure to recognize any concrete notion o' fair.

 

there is actual a pulitzer prize for criticism.  film critic, roger ebert, received the award for movie review.  perhaps you could start there if you want kinda an accepted standard for fairness in reviews.  am not expecting a codexian review to adhere to any kinda accepted standard for reviews, but if you want a definition, pulitzer could be a start.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

didn't ask for research.  and if you need a definition o' fair, we suspect self-help is in order.  as we stated already, we have failed to get you to understand basic definitions more than once. am doubting that you are an MBA recipient, yes?  a decade or more ago a stanford professor did a study regarding notions o' fairness and discovered, almost as an amusing aside, that MBA recipients were disproportionate in their failure to recognize any concrete notion o' fair.

So...For example, An MBA recipient who criticizes PoE's Lock and Trap XP rewards without first explaining why they're in the game....is being UNFAIR.

 

lol

Edited April 26, 2015 by Stun

[Gromnir]

 

So...For example, An MBA recipient who criticizes PoE's Lock and Trap XP rewards without first explaining why they're in the game....is being UNFAIR.

 

lol

 

you need to post more.  makes us nostalgic o' the times when tiax were posting at Co6. 'course, given his board handle, we believed he were doing intentional.  am almost certain that you are doing accidental.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[archangel979]

 

That is not really true. In PoE wizards can dump resolve and perceptions and probably constitution to maximize their offense but they are not dump stats to them. If that wizard gets attacked (which happens from time to time and it is the problem of AI if it does not) he needs those 3 stats he dumped to survive. Compared to IE games where Wizard does not need Strength, Wisdom or Charisma to survive any attacks (and he does not need them for offense as well).

Why are we arbitrarily limiting this discussion to specific combat scenarios? In the IE games, the function of the 6 attributes goes beyond combat, doesn't it. As it stands, dumping your Mage's wisdom to 3 means you're taking a hit to your lore score. Dumping your Charisma to 3 means you're going to have to pay more for stuff in shops. And dumping your strength to 3 means your carry weight will take a hit (and in the case of BG2, your weapon options will be limited). Of course, this doesn't mean they're not dump stats (because they still friggin are) But it DOES mean that they're about as functionally useful for a Mage in the IE games as Constitution, Resolve and Perception are for a Wizard in PoE.

Dump stat effects are most important in combat. While these 3 stats are not useless in IE games they are useless in combat. And if want to look at non combat applications in PoE stats are also used for converstations and those interactive mini adventures.

[Stun]

you need to post more.  makes us nostalgic o' the times when tiax were posting at Co6. 'course, given his board handle, we believed he were doing intentional.  am almost certain that you are doing accidental.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir, really, what is the point of coming here... Making hilariously false claims, then then ruthlessly defending those claims for a dozen pages by posting Starwars clips and calling ALL your opponents stupid, and then just bowing out of the debate with a totally anti-climactic little nugget of Nostalgia?

 

Did you get hit on the head in recess or something?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Stun

[Prime-Mover]

 

Because it doesn't. The slight loss in endurance is neither painful, nor does it equate to falling after 1 hit instead of 5. (your argument).

 

Feel free to statistically prove me wrong.

 

No, one vs. five was an exageration. It's probably closer to doubling the rate that health and endurance lost. But a character dying and losing health twice as fast as the other, should by no stretch of the imagination be considered a painful repercusion. Beyond that, no stat in POE has harms and benefits on the same scale as IE, so either all stats are dump stats, or no stat is.

[Gromnir]

 

you need to post more.  makes us nostalgic o' the times when tiax were posting at Co6. 'course, given his board handle, we believed he were doing intentional.  am almost certain that you are doing accidental.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir, really, what is the point of coming here... Making hilariously false claims, then then ruthlessly defending those for a dozen pages by posting Starwars clips and calling ALL your opponents stupid, and then just bowing out of the debate with a pointless little nugget of Nostalgia?

 

am trying to think o' another star wars clip we have used... ever.  is possible as  we have been posting for a few years.  am actual not much o' a sw fan.

 

and no, not all folks who disagree with us is stoopid, and is actual rare we make such a claim.  is only a very small number o' folks we have dismissed as utterly incapable o' recognizing or utilizing reason.  so, congrats?  smarty folks can make stoopid arguments.  it happens.  is few folks who we would call hopeless.  is an extreme small club, as hard to believe as you might find that.

 

btw, posting last doesn't = stun wins.  am knowing that to you it must feels that way, but...

 

*shrug*

 

for a number o' posts now, we have been adding 0 new-- both of us is repeating.  is spam.  so, say something new, and Gromnir will happily indulge your need to show folks how obtuse you can be.  otherwise, if you wanna post last, again, we oblige.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78279-rpgcodex-review-1-hŵrpa-dwrp/?p=1676192

 

shoulda' ended with the above link...or a bit before.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 26, 2015 by Gromnir

[Stun]

and no, not all folks who disagree with us is stoopid,

In fact, none of them are.

 

Contrary to what you may think, Gromnir, your opinions and thought processes are very easy to disagree with and shoot down on principle alone. It's not Stupid to do so. It's the opposite of Stupid to do so. Although to be fair (see what I did there?), It IS pointless, and I suppose if doing pointless things = Stupid, then we are, in fact, ALL stupid.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Stun

[Hiro Protagonist II]

That would make him/her more squishy when faced with teleporting monsters, or if you fail to protect your backline adequately. You may of course then argue that those monsters are few and far between, and that the AI sucks, but that's a really big stretch to make the observation fit the conclusion.

 

Hasn't for me. In fact my rogue not only dumped Con but is also not wearing any clothes or armour.

[Anaeme]

If you dump any attribute in PoE, be prepare to compensate for that loss with your other party members otherwise you will die very fast.

 

 

The system provides the flexibility to dump as long as you are ready to play with the loss.

 

 

I dumped INT on my fighter...but that made my knockdown useless because INT governs the duration of things like knockdown. When I knocked an opponent down, it got back up right away. I also had to sacrifice talents things like disciplined barrage for the same reason.

 

 

If you dump CON on a rogue that already has low CON...you are in very deep trouble. The AI tends to target party members with the lowest CON and your rogue will be one shotted by shades or shadows.

 

Bottom line is if you need to dump, your build or party build needs to compensate for that dump to be effective

 

I play on Hard mode. in easy mode the game may be more forgiving

Edited April 26, 2015 by Anaeme

[Hiro Protagonist II]

You're being a ****. First rule of not being a **** club: "don't be a ****ing ****". It follows that membership requires you to respond to the full post, and not just one sentence out of context. You claimed that a con of three didn't have painful repercussions. I've argued that this view is mistaken. If you want justify the existance of your response, provide reasons why I am wrong.

 

I've been dumping Con for my back line since the beta went live. And I'm not the only one who's been doing that. I'll take experience and the experience of others over your theories any day.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

If you dump CON on a rogue that already has low CON...you are in very deep trouble. The AI tends to target party members with the lowest CON and your rogue will be one shotted by shades or shadows.

 

Not for a ranged rogue like mine. And no, the A.I. doesn't target low Con characters. In fact, I've shown videos to prove that it doesn't.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

You're being a ****. First rule of not being a **** club: "don't be a ****ing ****". It follows that membership requires you to respond to the full post, and not just one sentence out of context. You claimed that a con of three didn't have painful repercussions. I've argued that this view is mistaken. If you want justify the existance of your response, provide reasons why I am wrong.

 

I've been dumping Con for my back line since the beta went live. And I'm not the only one who's been doing that. I'll take experience and the experience of others over your theories any day.

 

 

In all fairness though, "*shrug* it works on my end" is probably not the answer Prime was looking for.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

In all fairness though, "*shrug* it works on my end" is probably not the answer Prime was looking for.

 

And everybody else who's been exploiting it too. But everybody who's exploiting it is obviously wrong and the people who haven't are obviously right! Gotcha.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Anaeme]

 

If you dump CON on a rogue that already has low CON...you are in very deep trouble. The AI tends to target party members with the lowest CON and your rogue will be one shotted by shades or shadows.

 

Not for a ranged rogue like mine. And no, the A.I. doesn't target low Con characters. In fact, I've shown videos to prove that it doesn't.

 

 

 

I am sorry I am not arguing or debating. I am giving examples of what happened to me. If you dump CON  on your rogue on hard, a shade or shadow will one shot the rogue. It will leave your wizard and go to your rogue...

Edited April 26, 2015 by Anaeme

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I am sorry I am not arguing or debating. I am giving examples of what happened to me. If you dump CON  on your rogue on hard, a shade or shadow will will one shot the rogue. It will leave your wizard and go to your rogue...

 

And I'm giving examples of what happened to me. I have dumped Con on my ranged nude rogue and play on hard and never got one shotted at all. I can understand if you're not optimally building your rogue and dying.

[Gromnir]

 

 

You're being a ****. First rule of not being a **** club: "don't be a ****ing ****". It follows that membership requires you to respond to the full post, and not just one sentence out of context. You claimed that a con of three didn't have painful repercussions. I've argued that this view is mistaken. If you want justify the existance of your response, provide reasons why I am wrong.

 

I've been dumping Con for my back line since the beta went live. And I'm not the only one who's been doing that. I'll take experience and the experience of others over your theories any day.

 

 

In all fairness though, "*shrug* it works on my end" is probably not the answer Prime was looking for.

 

it works because encounter design is a bit wonky and 'cause  the higher the difficulty, the more brief is fights.  tactics and strategy actual become streamlined as difficulties increase precisely 'cause o' the brevity o' most fights.  the goal is to do the most damage possible as quick as possible.  there is indeed a cost for lowering constitution.  less endurance is a significant price to pay, but in practice it doesn't make much difference if fights is won or lost in 30 seconds or less.  folks is confusing mechanics issues with encounter design problems and the way in which difficulty scales.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps as an aside, the dump o' constitution is just one reason why the same folks is so bitter about domination/confusion and other effects.  those status effects cannot be complete avoided, so chances are that their basement dwelling con rogue is gonna topple the first time she gets back shot by grieving mother and leadspitter. those status effects prolong fights, and the low con characters wearing nothing but clothes 'stead o' armour is particular vulnerable in such circumstances.  'course they ain't realized that their strategy is part o' their problem.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Gromnir

[Anaeme]

 

I am sorry I am not arguing or debating. I am giving examples of what happened to me. If you dump CON  on your rogue on hard, a shade or shadow will will one shot the rogue. It will leave your wizard and go to your rogue...

 

And I'm giving examples of what happened to me. I have dumped Con on my ranged nude rogue and play on hard and never got one shotted at all. I can understand if you're not optimally building your rogue and dying.

 

 

 

I see...well you are way better than me. Playing on hard, you say you left your rogue completely naked and also dumped its CON. Indeed you are better than me with your optimal build. 

[Prime-Mover]

 

You're being a ****. First rule of not being a **** club: "don't be a ****ing ****". It follows that membership requires you to respond to the full post, and not just one sentence out of context. You claimed that a con of three didn't have painful repercussions. I've argued that this view is mistaken. If you want justify the existance of your response, provide reasons why I am wrong.

 

I've been dumping Con for my back line since the beta went live. And I'm not the only one who's been doing that. I'll take experience and the experience of others over your theories any day.

 

That's cool. And if you didn't experience any significant trade-off where this decision affected your tactical disposition or gear selection, then you probably have a good point. In my case however, dumping con forces me to play with a much more static and inflexible ranged-only backline. I would e.g. never dream of going in stabbing if I new that the likelyhood of being KO'ed would be twice as high. And that's a significant tradeoff in my book.

 

But... if your point is that you a certain optimal playstyle makes con an insignificant stat for your backline, then I would probably agree with this. But in my book, that makes calling con a dump stat for thieves a bit of a stretch. It's rather a dump stat for a particular play-style. But that's not what is usually meant by a dumpstat.

[Elerond]

But how many people know that dumping constitution on your main character will close some stuff in game from you? Not anything important but maybe somewhat nice stuff depending on which kind character you are playing.

[Anaeme]

I wonder how his optimal build did Temple of Eothas...