[SPOILER] Master Below down in 3 seconds - no cheese

[dam]

Ok so, this is too fun I had to capture the moment.

 

 

Every last one of us remembers our first encounter with the Adra Dragon at level 15 of Od Nua.

 

Take myself for example, my first playthrough was on hard with a DW rogue and I reached the dragon at level 9, my party consisting of the in-game companions got rek't in seconds flat.

 

 

Since I do not have the spare time to run a full playthrough with every possible class, I've decided to run the one game with a custom party this time, see how far I get.

 

First things first, if one plays on hard and thus allows themselves a bit of min-maxing, custom adventurers are so very superior to the built-in companions.

Despite my lack of knowledge of classes other than the rogue, I've gone with the following, hopefully not too terrible party.

I'm including the character names so you can correlate the combat log and see who did what damage, with what gear.

 

- Eder 11 Fighter, main tank, gear doesn't matter he's here to delay

- Maya 11 Monk, off-tank with maxed might, dex and con, 2x endurance draining fast weapons (exceptional, burning lash)

- Solar 11 Barbarian, DW, 2x Edge of Reason and Resolution (exceptional, burning lash)

- Alicia 11 PC Rogue, 2-handed spec, Tall Grass (exceptional, burning lash) main weapon, Blade of the Endless Paths for the dragon

- Dhaos 11 Chanter, St. Garam's Spark (fine, shocking lash)

- Leila 10 Priest, Good Friend (fine), cast prayer vs fear + Blessing + Dire Blessing , and that's all

 

 

So how'd the fight go ?

 

My 12 mechanics rogue laid down a Gaze of the Adragan trap prior to the engagement (after all, these traps have to see some use right ?).

 

I moved Eder to initiate dialogue, picked the options which gave me dialogue rep increases 'cause I'm greedy with that, then engaged the dragon.

I really thought my main tank was going to be of some use, so I had him run past the dragon, aggro him, turn him away from the party to avoid an instant wipe from the corrosive breath.

 

Eder gets hit by a Wing Slam for 197 crush (16 DR) and goes down (221 endurance, guess he was hit a bit earlier as well).

His Unbroken (1/rest revive with 50% endurance) kicks in and he comes back with roughly 110 endurance.

 

Not to be disheartened, the dragon follows up a few seconds later with a Breath which hits Eder for 173 corrode (24 DR).

It also had the good idea of taking down 3 Adragans in the process so who am I to complain ?

Eder flops to the ground, and this time has the good sense of staying down.

 

At this point the dragon is unharmed and relatively far from my trap (and the team), my MT is down, but at least that bought me time to get priest buffs up:

- bless

- dire blessing

- prayer against fear

 

I move my team a bit to leash the dragon to where I want him to walk, right on to the Gaze of the Adragan trap.

 

The dragon triggers the trap, gets petrified for a whopping 4.3 seconds.

Still, the goal was to petrify the dragon to at least lower his defenses a bit, get my team in a flanking position and try to burst him down (that's the point of a 2-handed rogue after all).

But then, 4.3 seconds is a very short time to take away 477 HP from a 28DR beast.

I take the shot, he's petrified, my MT is down and not getting up by any means, I decide to all-in.

 

And that's right there, in the span of these precious seconds, that my team decides to land almost every hit and burst him down :

77 + 43 + 25 + 25 + 93 + 109 + 61 + 39 (total 472/477 , I can only assume the Threatening Presence from my barb, which took 1 CON away, lowered his HP incidentally).

Take a good look at the log, I'm pretty proud of the graze for 93 damage.

 

 

So here I am, game's paused, I need to clean up the adds but after the spanking the dragon got, they shouldn't be troubling overmuch.

 

 

And you ?

How'd you take revenge on the Adra Dragon after the inevitable beating you received on your very first try ?

 

Edited April 13, 2015 by dam

[Rosveen]

What inevitable beating? I never died, I struck a deal with the dragon and set her free.

[Stun]

That's friggin amazing. Grazing for 93 damage? Against the Adra Dragon?

 

My St. Garam's Spark never did that!

 

 

That trick with using Eder as a decoy..... Clever. Going to have to try that. I haven't beaten the Adra dragon yet because I've never been able to secure 4 seconds of uninterrupted Buffing in that fight.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Stun

[anameforobsidian]

I beat after an hours trying with 18 tons of potions.  First I dominated it (ringleader) into killing its own adds.  Then, Pallegina in superb saints armor and an excellent beast slayer great sword and Eder with an excellent saber (the endless paths one) are chopping away at it.  I kept them on one side so the dragon couldn't breath my party.  Durance went down and Pallegina brought him back (and he brought back Aloth and Grieving Mother).  Hirviras got some lucky lightning strikes, and the summoned blight would occasionally heal him.  My ciphers ran out of focus because that DR murdered blunderbuss damage.  Eventually he had knocked out Pallegina, Eder, and Aloth, then I killed him with an insect swarm while my cipher was kiting.

[dukefx]

No cheese? LOL

[Glasny]

Currently, petrified traps are pretty cheesy :D

[quechn1tlan]

laid down a Gaze of the Adragan trap 

 

No cheese, right.

[Atheosis]

One cast of Gaze of Adragan and I think I got her down in 5-6 seconds.  It was kind of underwhelming really.  If you don't use a spell like that though she's beyond stupid in terms of the damage she puts out.

[cavemandiary]

Pretty much voicing what others have said: Petrify is cheese, because currently it is hands-down the most effective way of dealing with the A.D.

Petrify really should be 2x dmg, and the A.D´s breath should be nerfed. But that´s just my opinion.

[Rumpelstilskin]

Did the 4 adragans that should have shown up by that moment and dominated half of your party present a problem?

[Stun]

Did the 4 adragans that should have shown up by that moment and dominated half of your party present a problem?

I can answer this one, because it happened in my game. The Dragon's breath attack can friendly fire those Adragons. And if they're even remotely close to each other when it occurs, they will all get one-shotted by it.

[Rumpelstilskin]

 

Did the 4 adragans that should have shown up by that moment and dominated half of your party present a problem?

I can answer this one, because it happened in my game. The Dragon's breath attack can friendly fire those Adragons. And if they're even remotely close to each other when it occurs, they will all get one-shotted by it.

 

Right, fair point. Surviving it is pretty tricky though. 

[dam]

One cast of Gaze of Adragan and I think I got her down in 5-6 seconds.  It was kind of underwhelming really.  If you don't use a spell like that though she's beyond stupid in terms of the damage she puts out.

 

Matter of fact I got her down in my first playthrough without a petrify trap or spell.

 

And no she wasn't that much harder.

 

 

It is a matter of perspective, but I found Thaos much harder than the A.D.

[dam]

What inevitable beating? I never died, I struck a deal with the dragon and set her free.

 

I didn't know one could do that, on my first game

[dam]

No cheese? LOL

 

A simple matter of perspective, what's cheesiest :

- 4 seconds worth of free time on a boss, including party movement time.

or

- people cleaning up the whole room of adds, before engaging the A.D herself ?

 

 

Every single video, every single screenshot I've seen, people get there with maxed level 12 parties, enchants, potions and scrolls, cheese-clean the room, then get to aggro'ing the A.D, and resort to cheap Walls and Raw damage D.O.Ts to do the job.

 

I'm kinda proud of my sub-level 12 hard mode encounter with the adds still alive.

[dam]

Petrify really should be 2x dmg, and the A.D´s breath should be nerfed. But that´s just my opinion.

 

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

Sadly the game's spell description and in-game help aren't exceedingly clear as to the effects of Petrify.

From the game's notes, petrified targets take direct HP damage instead of endurance, and are obviously unable to act.

 

 

Are there any other side effects from it ?

 

 

Edit:

To be more specific, are there any differences between paralyze and petrify ?

Would have used a paralyze trap but none seems to exist, so I went for the next best thing.

As far as I understand, the real difference is when your own party members get petrified, attacks target their HP directly making them more annoying if you try to avoid heavy rest cycles.

Edited April 14, 2015 by dam

[Jasta11]

Petrifying traps are pretty cheesy to me. 4x damage modifier? Ain't nobody got the HP for that.

 

Still, congratulations on downing the beast.

[cirdanx]

The dragon always resisted  petrifying/slumber spells from me. I just buffed up Eder and send him in alone, stayed at max possible range with everyone else to avoid the ugly AoE and unloaded everything i had. It was quickly over.

 

I didn´t like the fight much and found it pretty uninteresting from a mechanics standpoint. I would have preferred more diverse abilities instead of just one hard hitting attack that can easily oneshot a lot of chars.

[dukefx]

 

No cheese? LOL

 

A simple matter of perspective, what's cheesiest :

- 4 seconds worth of free time on a boss, including party movement time.

or

- people cleaning up the whole room of adds, before engaging the A.D herself ?

 

 

Every single video, every single screenshot I've seen, people get there with maxed level 12 parties, enchants, potions and scrolls, cheese-clean the room, then get to aggro'ing the A.D, and resort to cheap Walls and Raw damage D.O.Ts to do the job.

 

I'm kinda proud of my sub-level 12 hard mode encounter with the adds still alive.

 

Good job, now do the same without using traps, potions, scrolls, summoning items, paralyzing/petrifying or shooting it from above (and other exploits).

 

On my first playthrough I didn't even have the luxury of non-hostility until you attack. My 1st ever kill was using priest seals. Instant ~-40% HP. That was cheesing on my behalf (after a gazillion reloads and the same chit-chat over and over again). Later I managed to kill it quite easily with no cheesing. You pretty much need a bait (use Edér), a few debuffs and high spike damage like MPPB that ignores DT. Use others to keep the adds away from your main damage dealer (Aloth in my case). No DoTs or raw damage necessary.

[dam]

 

 

No cheese? LOL

 

A simple matter of perspective, what's cheesiest :

- 4 seconds worth of free time on a boss, including party movement time.

or

- people cleaning up the whole room of adds, before engaging the A.D herself ?

 

 

Every single video, every single screenshot I've seen, people get there with maxed level 12 parties, enchants, potions and scrolls, cheese-clean the room, then get to aggro'ing the A.D, and resort to cheap Walls and Raw damage D.O.Ts to do the job.

 

I'm kinda proud of my sub-level 12 hard mode encounter with the adds still alive.

 

Good job, now do the same without using traps, potions, scrolls, summoning items, paralyzing/petrifying or shooting it from above (and other exploits).

 

On my first playthrough I didn't even have the luxury of non-hostility until you attack. My 1st ever kill was using priest seals. Instant ~-40% HP. That was cheesing on my behalf (after a gazillion reloads and the same chit-chat over and over again). Later I managed to kill it quite easily with no cheesing. You pretty much need a bait (use Edér), a few debuffs and high spike damage like MPPB that ignores DT. Use others to keep the adds away from your main damage dealer (Aloth in my case). No DoTs or raw damage necessary.

 

 

 

1. Traps, Potions, Scrolls and Summons

 

No traps : yeah no, I did use a trap, no debate here

No potions : 1 potion of power on my rogue, which is shown in the combat log and the buffs bar

No scrolls : check

No food : check

No summoning items : check

Non-hostility until you attack : neither did I have it in my first playthrough or this one, see any add pre-clear ? me neither

 

 

I have no idea what got you started, talking about scrolls and summoning items and suchlike, where clearly none were used ?

I mean, on a kill featuring them I could understand, but here ?

 

 

2. General boss advice and this fight's mechanics

 

I am thankful for your advice, but I think I'm fine here.

I knew to dispel haste, I knew to breach stoneskin, I think I might manage an inferior version of BG2 dragons, whose only fight mechanics are "turn away from party, avoid tail, cast 2 level 1 and 1 level 3 buffs and DPS".

 

This is not Firkraag or Abazigal, who actually used magic, special abilities and cheesy contingencies.

This is not Onyxia or Nefarian, who required precise adds management and positioning.

 

This is a dragon whose one and only fight phase is "try to absorb or mitigate as much as the damage as possible so your tank won't die".

This is a DPS race against a regular monster with no special abilities besides vastly increased damage and resistance (although I really love the voice-over).

Basically that's Vaelastrasz ten years later and with 34 fewer party members.

 

 

 

3. Petrify spell effect and afferent documentation

 

Seeing the game has very lacking in-game spell, effect and enchantment descriptions, I had no insight into Petrify's inner workings.

I only now read, from cavemandiary and Jasta11, that it applies a 400% damage taken penalty.

I refer you to the following threads (end of my post) which illustrate further the lack of proper descriptions :

- Pondering whether Bloody Slaughter applies to spells, what are its trigger conditions, and whether the 0.5 crit mult applies to every single crit. [1]

- Reflecting on the meanings of "Spell Binding, Spell Holding, Spell Striking" and their limitations. [2]

 

 

I challenge you to find the 4x damage taken information in the game, I haven't, you will not either.

It is not in the spell description, and it isn't in the Cyclopedia any more :

"They suffer the same effects as being Paralyzed, but attacks will damage their Health directly instead of Endurance."

 

Let's browse to Paralyzed, see if there's anything about a damage taken debuff :

"Their Dexterity is set to 0 and their Reflex and Deflection are reduced by 40."

 

Obviously something is amiss here, either Petrify applies a debuff it shouldn't, or the documentation is lacking.

 

 

 

4. Your attitude

 

Either way, there is no need for your pedantic tone and your "now try without scrolls and summons", all the more when obviously none were used.

 

 

 

5. End on a funny note and part ways giggling

 

If your only contributions are going to be scorn and verbal abuse, may I suggest the following, original dialogue (all rights reserved, patrimonial rights unalienable) :

1: [shrug and pass your way] [stoic]

2: [find something to do, other than not-so-subtly insult strangers on the interwebs] [Clever]

3: [Yell "he lied ! he said no cheese but he cheesed ! HOW DARE HE LIE TO ME !!!"] [Passionate]

4: [sacrifice stray cats and force virgins to drink their blood] [Cruel, with a slight lean towards Insane]

5: [shake your tiny fists at the screen in rage] [Aggressive]

6: [plainly and painfully remind that OP sucks for not having read the in-game documenta.. oh wait] [Honest]

 

 

If, on the other hand, you're going to be cautious and assume the OP may have posted in good faith, and couldn't possibly have been aware of Petrify's side effects, you could :

1: [calmly explain that yes, this is cheesy because dat damage debuff bro] [Diplomatic]

2: [Lie] [congratulate the OP on his very very legitimate and entirely not cheesy kill] [Deceptive]

3: [point out that bug ticket #XYZ and duplicate #ZYX already mention Petrify having an unfortunate side effect, which QA couldn't replicate but are working on tirelessly all the same] [Rational]

 

 

Have your fun picking, I know I had fun writing

No hard feelings.

 

 

 

6. References

 

[1] http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73572-bloody-slaughter-talent-few-questions-and-doubts/?p=1651956

[2] http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/72852-spell-holding-on-items-natures-embrace/?p=1652679

 

 

 

Edit:

As a side note and in the light of petrify applying a 400% damage debuff, I concede that, to my disappointment, this was a cheesy kill

Edited April 14, 2015 by dam

[dukefx]

1. That's a full list of what's considered cheesing, not a list of what you used.

 

2. I consider this rather a superior version. Stats are much higher and breath damage is insane. You just can't stand in front of it and cast the appropriate spells. Not to mention you can prebuff in BG2, but it's pointless to argue about which dragon is easier or harder to beat.

 

3. Check the combat log! The wiki lacks info, and the in game descriptions are sometimes inaccurate or plain simply lacking any kind of info, like those "modifies whatever_ability" descriptions.

 

4. My view on this: You create a thread in hopes of a pat on your back, clearly not in good faith, but to feed your ego, just like the rest (with 2 exceptions that simply discuss strategies) who create yet another AD thread. You will pardon me if my attitude isn't very positive towards this.

 

5. Those are actually quite good, especially [4], but unfortunately none of them would serve as a proper response. The closest would be the 2nd [1], but it's not really the x4 damage modifier I consider OP, but the decreased stats and being unable to do anything (which also applies to paralyze).

 

Anyways, no hard feelings. I had a good laugh after reading 5!

[dam]

 

1. That's a full list of what's considered cheesing, not a list of what you used.

 

2. I consider this rather a superior version. Stats are much higher and breath damage is insane. You just can't stand in front of it and cast the appropriate spells. Not to mention you can prebuff in BG2, but it's pointless to argue about which dragon is easier or harder to beat.

 

3. Check the combat log! The wiki lacks info, and the in game descriptions are sometimes inaccurate or plain simply lacking any kind of info, like those "modifies whatever_ability" descriptions.

 

4. My view on this: You create a thread in hopes of a pat on your back, clearly not in good faith, but to feed your ego, just like the rest (with 2 exceptions that simply discuss strategies) who create yet another AD thread. You will pardon me if my attitude isn't very positive towards this.

 

5. Those are actually quite good, especially [4], but unfortunately none of them would serve as a proper response. The closest would be the 2nd [1], but it's not really the x4 damage modifier I consider OP, but the decreased stats and being unable to do anything (which also applies to paralyze).

 

Anyways, no hard feelings. I had a good laugh after reading 5!

 

 

3. I'm afraid I didn't notice anything that pointed to a damage mult being applied against petrified targets in the log, I'll experiment further.

Note to self: create a god damned wizard

 

4. Oh believe me I was indeed rather proud of myself, I mean, 93 graze, 109 crit \o/  , aaand now it's gone -.-

 

5. At least I made you laugh and we part in good spirits, mission accomplished

 

 

Edit:

2. Oh idk... fights certainly felt more lively in BG2 to me, more like you did put your life on the table; what with the contingencies and all !

They also seemed more realistic in DAO, where a dragon didn't have magical abilities, but would grab your tank and chew on him.

But then, that's a matter of viewpoint so there is no universal truth to be had here

 

Edited April 14, 2015 by dam

[dam]

What inevitable beating? I never died, I struck a deal with the dragon and set her free.

 

I'm so gonna have to try that next playthrough, see if there's some kind of freebie to be had from the grateful bitch dragon

[twiztedterry]

 

What inevitable beating? I never died, I struck a deal with the dragon and set her free.

 

I'm so gonna have to try that next playthrough, see if there's some kind of freebie to be had from the grateful bitch dragon

 

My hope is that it plays some role in the Expansion, kinda like the Rachni queen in Mass Effect. (Even though the Rachni queen didn't really have MUCH of a role in the sequels)

[Rumpelstilskin]

I think aura of fear can be even more annoying than the breath attack. It's not an instakill of course, but it's unavoidable, and its -20 to accuracy hurt you a lot, considering how high its deflection already is. I tried using protection from fear scrolls, but they only give you +50 to defend against it, which doesn't seem to be enough.