Shades vs Wizard

[SomberSight]

I am currently in the Temple of Eothas with Edèr and Aloth fighting shade monsters, and I'm experiencing some big grievances with the combat.

1. Why are the angles of the wizard spells so large? When friendly fire is part of the game, you need to be able to direct your spells accurately, and that just isn't possible when the cone takes up over half of the battlefield. Make the angles narrower at least, or better yet, let us define the breadth of the AoE ourselves.

2. Why is there a friendly fire AoE associated with Fetid Caress? When I can't cast it without sickening the tank I'm trying to help, I end up wishing I hadn't picked it at all.

3. Why are Wizards given Arcane assault over Grimoire Slam, when the latter is the only reliable (at least I hope it will be reliable) way for a wizard to break engagement? By the time I realized I'd need it, I had already chosen the Blast passive.

4. Why have shades been given a teleport spell? This seems calculated to annoy players: They can bypass any precaution, and directly engage the casters in the back. If you're gonna do that, give wizards a positioning spell too. Right now, the fight goes to **** as soon as they use the ability, because I can't make the casters run unless I want them to die even quicker, and my tank has no ability to make them refocus on him.

5. Why are wizard spells so weak? When I only have a couple per rest, I want them to be fight ending, but currently I see no way for even Fan of Flames to do more than ca. 45 damage per cast (factoring in miss chance, and point 1). Ideally I'd like to see the "per rest" mechanic die in a grease fire, but if you must include it, give us something to compensate.

 

 

What am I meant to do in this area as a wizard?

 

 

Edit: I hate to say this, but I got more enjoyment out of making this post, than the last hour of playing PoE.

Edited April 11, 2015 by SomberSight

[knownastherat]

I think the temple is to teach player a lesson. The lesson is: There is no shame coming back later.

 

Its solo-able with Wizard, level 4/5.

[MachoGrande]

I tried playing PoE at my friend's house and the teleporting ghosts ended my interest in it as well. Having to set up your party like an MMO raid is annoying enough, but at least they should have added a taunt ability if things like these teleporting ghosts are going to be there. I had Eder, Aloth, and my rogue with a bow...every fight they would just teleport past Eder and easily kill my helpless guys...yeah that's fun.  

[Vasya]

I tried playing PoE at my friend's house and the teleporting ghosts ended my interest in it as well. Having to set up your party like an MMO raid is annoying enough, but at least they should have added a taunt ability if things like these teleporting ghosts are going to be there. I had Eder, Aloth, and my rogue with a bow...every fight they would just teleport past Eder and easily kill my helpless guys...yeah that's fun.  

Just use corner instead of doorway. But you'll need second guy who is somewhat durable.

[Epsilon Rose]

I don't have a problem with the temple being a place you have to come back to, but party comp does feel a lot more rigid than I'd like. I feel like I always need a tank, always need someone to heal (hello priest), need at least 1 form of aoe or cc, and everyone else is some form of ranged dps or near melee dps.

[Anthony Stark]

The Temple of Eothas is entirely about utilizing proper positioning and downing them before they can get to your backline. I completed all of the Temple with a 3-person party (Priest, Fighter, Wizard) on Normal, and with a 4-person party (Fighter, Wizard, Priest, Rogue) on Hard.

 

Generally, I'll block the Shadows/Shades at a doorway, keeping my backline far enough away that the Shadows/Shades will not teleport to them and instead teleport onto my tank. They seem to have either a cooldown on their teleport ability, or a scripting hook that prevents them from using it with wild abandon, so this gives me sufficient time to position my backline appropriately. From there, it's simply a matter of wearing them down. Arcane Assault (due to its Raw damage type) helps with this, along with Rogue sneak attacks. Fan of Flames and Sunbeam both work excellently on them, especially with a cast or potion of Eldritch Aim beforehand. For large groups, I may simply send in my tank first to grab the attention of the Shades/Shadows, and then move a Wizard or similar class in position for AoE damage.

 

Arcane Assault was given to Wizards so that, even without using spells, they have a way to contribute in terms of both damage and debuffing during combat. Grimoire Slam is alright, but the fact that it targets Deflection and doesn't have the same accuracy bonus that Wizard spells do (which should be fixed, IMO) makes it less good than it apparently seems. In most cases, the engagement-breaking component is unnecessary with good positioning.

 

With regards to the damage of Wizard spells, the first level AoE spells are actually quite good when deployed against opponents without much DR against that damage type. 45 damage per target is a large amount of damage, and I've seen Fan of Flames climb to upwards of 80 with Eldritch Aim. If there's an issue with them, it's that their main method of deployment (cones and touch-ranged spells) are not consonant with how defensively weak Wizards are. Druids, by comparison, have a higher base Deflection, a higher base Endurance/Health, and defense/DR-increasing forms, but their main damage spells at level 1 are largely targeted AoEs, and are able to do comparable damage. The single-target spells, meanwhile, are largely not worthwhile, dealing low or frequently-resisted damage.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Anthony Stark

[Althernai]

What am I meant to do in this area as a wizard?

Short answer: come back when you have more than 2 companions (which will happen very soon if you follow the main plot).

 

Longer answer: it is possible to win with just Eder and Aloth, but it's a royal pain in the neck. Fan of Flames is the only serious means of dealing damage you have so both Aloth and your Wizard should use it. Keep in mind that only the "red", inner area hits friendlies -- if you have a high INT (Aloth does), there will be a substantial fraction of the cone which extends beyond that and Eder can be inside that without any harm. Kiting works to some extent, though not perfectly and as Anthony said, you can trick the shadows into wasting their teleport. Honestly though, just come back with a bigger party.

[Tvättbjörn]

I don't have a problem with the temple being a place you have to come back to, but party comp does feel a lot more rigid than I'd like. I feel like I always need a tank, always need someone to heal (hello priest), need at least 1 form of aoe or cc, and everyone else is some form of ranged dps or near melee dps.

I have to disagree. With a well equipped tank or two you can pretty much bring whatever you want in the remaining four slots, or you could solo if you want. You could probably just ignore tanks too and just rely more on cc and pure damage output instead.

[Climhazzard]

Just get bulwark of the elements, it gives you a huge advantage against shades/shadows which do ice damage.

[Blovski]

1. Int gives you a larger AOE and a larger area of non-friendly-fire (that's the lighter bit on the edge of your cone/circle) within that. If you want to use Fan of Flames you can back up your wizard so the Flames will hit the enemy but not your frontline.
2. Such is AOE.
3. Honestly I'd rather have Arcane Assault. It targets Reflex which is *much* better vs. Shadows.
4. I like that this changes up combat a bit. I believe Shadows only have one Teleport, which won't help you with your two-wizard setup unless you have endure elements kicking around so one of your wizards can tank but it is useful with bigger parties. I took on the temple with three characters in my first run on Normal, which was a pain but doable. On my subsequent two I've had biggish parties for it.
5. Would not say Wizard spells are weak at all unless you want to just have one spell to win a battle...

With regards to the Temple - it's a bit of a weird placement with the level 2 being pretty difficult compared to the first level and some tricky enemies like phantoms (one on normal) and especially Shades (on hard and above). General advice is to get a bigger and better party rather than doing it first thing (try Anslog's Compass and the two Gilded Vale Quests and so on if you haven't).

[Epsilon Rose]

 

I don't have a problem with the temple being a place you have to come back to, but party comp does feel a lot more rigid than I'd like. I feel like I always need a tank, always need someone to heal (hello priest), need at least 1 form of aoe or cc, and everyone else is some form of ranged dps or near melee dps.

 

I have to disagree. With a well equipped tank or two you can pretty much bring whatever you want in the remaining four slots, or you could solo if you want. You could probably just ignore tanks too and just rely more on cc and pure damage output instead.

I don't think cc in place of a tank, unless you're willing to rest constantly.

[Ruminate]

Are you playing on normal? If so, do the following:

 

- Change your formation so Eder is in the front.

- Remove Eder's shield.

- Equip your wizard and Aloth with a rapier.

- When you see the shades, have everyone charge forth with their melee weapons.

- The shadows will bunch up.

- Use Arcane Assault on all of the bunched up shadows.

- Mop up any survivors with your melee weapons.

 

The most "difficult" encounter was the room with the Phantom because it can perma-stun a party member, but that encounter becomes a joke if you use per-rest spells (which you won't need for any other fight in the dungeon).

 

The entire Temple is a showcase on how powerful one-hand melee is against high deflection enemies. Aloth conveniently comes pre-equipped with a rapier, BTW.

[Wompoo]

Its fairly easy, once you under stand the mechanics of the game (bulwark is your friend and shift queue Arcane assault and any other spell for very very quick casting). You can also do a quick milk run and pick up Durance and Kana (after you do the hanging tree... at level 3) easily, no combat involved and come back and just rip it apart.  Also Concelhaut's staff first level spell makes short work of the shades. Lastly make sure Eder is well and truly the first thing they see, have him pull with a bow or charge in ahead of you. Fan of flames is a great early spell, need to learn how to position the group and yourself (great against Trolls). As for wizards damage, mine finished with it very easily being the highest damage dealer (they get stronger as you proceed, but 24 int doesn't hurt either ) . Currently running a Hearth Orlan as a spellsword capitalising on its racial crit using Concelhaut's and having a lot of fun.

[Evange]

I tried playing PoE at my friend's house and the teleporting ghosts ended my interest in it as well. Having to set up your party like an MMO raid is annoying enough, but at least they should have added a taunt ability if things like these teleporting ghosts are going to be there. I had Eder, Aloth, and my rogue with a bow...every fight they would just teleport past Eder and easily kill my helpless guys...yeah that's fun.  

Fighters have a taunt skill. It's called Into The Fray. Pity that it's only single target and it's range is melee.

[Yosharian]

1) Consider just giving up for the time being and come back later.  It's slightly annoying, I know.

 

2) Wizards are allowed to wear armour.  Armour reduces Freeze damage, especially certain armours.

 

3) Bulwark Against Elemental Damage or whatever that spell is called, is great against Shades/Shadows.

[Mungri]

Levels you need to be at for the temple of Eothas:

 

Normal - Level 3-4

Hard - Level 4-5

Potd - Level 5-6

 

Dont go in their as your first dungeon. Its much easier to complete Raedrics and Caed Nua first, and the other act 1 side areas.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I completed the dungeon with Eder, Aloth, and my Cipher on normal my first attempt. Most of the shades can be engaged 1-2 at a time. The most important thing is to have heavier armor on your casters and stay close to Eder's back. For some rooms, you will need to utilize the doorway. Outside of your PC also being a wizard, this dungeon shouldn't be that difficult.