Limerick edit thread 2

[Cantousent]

Please refrain from advocating killing all [insert whoever here]. I let one about the elves go because... well... elves don't really exist, but try not to stick a finger in other folks' eyes. I know it's tempting to be mean, but try to treat each other charitably. ...And don't crow about the rise of censorship by advocating, even in jest, killing all [anyone] or you'll be censored. :Cant's one eyebrow raised smile icon:

[Cyphon]

 

 

 

 

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

 

Agreed.  People made their case on both sides of the issue.  Obsidian listened and made up its own mind about how best to respond.  Respect their decision and move on.  The prolonged and irrational anti-"SJW" tantrum is effing infantile.

 

No it is just freedom of speech. And a reaction to their behavior since its getting more and more stupid every day.  And now the line is almost completely crossed for many people. 

 

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Pillars of Eternity is an owned property of Obsidian Entertainment, a private company, who can do with it whatever they please. Backer content was submitted with the understanding that it would be vetted by that same entity. No speech is being impinged here. You are very confused about what speech you are entitled to if you think otherwise.

 

What I do see is another eruption from the videogame community that has, over the last year or so, revealed itself to be deeply regressive, deeply out of touch, and at times downright hateful. I'm sorry one of my favorite developers has to bear the brunt of another such eruption, but they owe you nothing. If you are offended by this, you are on the wrong side of history. At best, you can hope to look back on this and shake your head at your younger self.

 

At best.

 

 

Just one thing I have to disagree with:  it has everything to do with free speech.  Hehe....

 

People said some sh*t about some sh*t.

 

Some other people said some sh*t about the sh*t the first people said about that sh*t. 

 

Then the first people said "oh no you di'int and said some sh*t right back. 

 

So the second people said oh yeah well we're now gonna say our sh*t even louder. 

 

And so the first people were all like holy sh*t, we better say our sh*t louder AND  more often. 

 

Then both the first people and the second people decided together that it was time to both say their sh*t louder, more often And crazier AT THE SAME TIME.

 

So the folks whose sh*t the first people said some sh*t about said "HOLY SH*T, EVERYONE IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!" and tried to change their sh*t so that the first people and the second people would STOP TALKING SH*T.

 

BUT the sh*t keeps on floatin'....cuz it's a feature, not  a bug.

 

Love it or hate it, that is all just one giant example of free speech and exactly what Madison, et al, meant when they determined it was to be protected as sacrosanct.  Speech, then change, then more speech, then more change, then more speech, then more change...and that doesn't bar change that is a correction of previous change.  But the point remains:  this is has everything to do with free speech because it was all just an exercise in free speech.

 

And that's my second point:  I think Obsidian tried to find a middle ground.  They didn't just delete it, they allowed it to remain as a sort of barbed comment about it feeling a bit crappy when you feel you need to change something you did or said to keep the peace...but the act of doing so showed that keeping the peace (or trying to at least) was more important.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Cyphon

[Litany]

 

 

It's also considered rude not to use the preferred pronoun. The name her parents gave her.

 

 

Shame I don't care in this particular case since he wants to kill people like me.

 

Aww a mod said not to be mean. You shouldn't misgender people, though.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Litany

[Darji]

 

 

 

Yeah and now people expressing their opinions about Obsidian carving in. I know its an endless circle and Developer will never win. 

 

Prove that they caved in.

Put up or shut up.

It's really not such a difficult concept.

 

You will never ba able to prove this- This is ridiculous. However...

 

Obsidian makes games and even controlled backer content and helped them with writing as well.

Games gets released

Some crazy person saw some messages that did upset her even though the meaning is not even clear

She calls Obsidian out, she calls for a boycott.

a Week or so later Obsidian removed the content with some PR messages behind it.

 

Yeah the chances that they carved in is pretty high for me. 

 

re the bolded: Because ableism is totally cool.

 

You should try some introspection. You have constructed a narrative where the person who complained is crazy and Obs are cowards. The much more likely scenario is that a trans person thought it was in bad taste and advocated for the content to be removed. Obs agreed and did so.

 

I am sorry but people who use the #....allmen are crazy for me. I can not do anything about it.  I am sorry for that.  And no it does not even matter if she is frustrated or not.It is stupid just like #... all feminists  would be stupid and crazy no matter what. 

Edited April 4, 2015 by Darji

[PreDefined]

 

 

 

Can someone please tell me what this joke was that pissed off the LGBT crowd?  I just got into a nasty verbal fight with some of them over on another site.  Was it that bad?

 

Okay, see now that's funny.  If anything the joke is aimed at the Firedorn.

 

 

And because he slept with a man in drags, not a transgendered dude.

 

Start seeing where are we coming from already?

 

 

Furthermore, the man Firedorn slept with didn't even have to be in drag necesarily.  Firedorn could have been drunk, pranked by an illusion spell, whatever ... and the person who dies is Firedorn.

[Nerdwing]

 

 

You should try some introspection. You have constructed a narrative where the person who complained is crazy and Obs are cowards. The much more likely scenario is that a trans person thought it was in bad taste and advocated for the content to be removed. Obs agreed and did so.

 

Had the individual not made the post regarding total annihilation of men, this would probably only be about 80% as big a talking point as people are forcing it to be.

 

I dont think that was in anyone's best interest.  

[pstone]

Read THIS.

 

 

 

"Asked". Meaning "change it or we simply remove it". There was no choice involved for the person.

Actually, there was a choice.  They asked me if I wanted to change in light of what happened.  I chose to change it so that they can concentrate on the game instead of this PR nightmare.  They weren't going to change it, they asked ME if I wanted to.  I can find another platform to write my controversial crap, and I will.  They, on the other hand, did the right thing and allowed me to decide the fate of the epitaph.  I chose to turn into something that made fun of the bitch-bastards that were complaining.

 

They went above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.

 

 

Now that we've got the real facts from Firedorn himself can we move on?

 

Thank you for reposting this, moving on.

[Bubbles]

I am sorry but people who use the #killallmen are crazy for me. I can not do anything about it.  I am sorry for that.  And no it does not even matter if she is frustrated or not. #killallmen ist stupid just like #killall feminists would be stupid and crazy no matter what. 

 

 

The sentiment to #killallmen is borne out of the realization that almost all men are actively oppressing women and transpeople for their own personal gain. Telling women and transpeople that they are crazy to use that tag is like telling rape victims that they are crazy to try and fight back against their rapists.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Bubbles

[Amentep]

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

I've said it repeatedly - obsidian was screwed the minute this became an issue. There was no way that they could please both groups.

 

If this had went the other way we'd be having the same kind of ****storm reaction, just from the other side.

[McFeeb]

re the bolded: Because ableism is totally cool.

 

You should try some introspection. You have constructed a narrative where the person who complained is crazy and Obs are cowards. The much more likely scenario is that a trans person thought it was in bad taste and advocated for the content to be removed. Obs agreed and did so.

 

 

 

Let's be realistic here.

 

We are talking about someone who has repeatedly called for the death of half of the population of the planet, including the subset of the population that he either now belongs to or formerly did.

 

This person is literally crazy.

[Bayzent]

Aww a mod said not to be mean. You shouldn't misgender people, though.

 

 

I do not, I call him what he is.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Bayzent

[Darji]

 

I am sorry but people who use the #killallmen are crazy for me. I can not do anything about it.  I am sorry for that.  And no it does not even matter if she is frustrated or not. #killallmen ist stupid just like #killall feminists would be stupid and crazy no matter what. 

 

 

The sentiment to #killallmen is borne out of the realization that almost all men are actively oppressing women and transpeople for their own personal gain. Telling people that they are crazy to use that tag is like telling rape victims that they are crazy to try and fight back against their rapists.

 

Ok this goes now into a territory I will not even talk about here. But almost all men? Really Really?  I am done with this. Its even almost 5 in the morning I need more sleep so I can oppress more  women tomorrow. Since I am a man.....

 

So good night and let us oppress some more women tomorrow since we are men and almost all do it....

Edited April 4, 2015 by Darji

[termokanden]

I keep getting drawn into this debate. It just saddens me to see one of my favorite developers get dragged into this situation where they absolutely can't win no matter what they do.

 

I don't know, I've met a few good men in my life. They're worth keeping around, I think. #KillAllMen#ButNotAllMen

I'm a terrible man, but I don't think I deserve to die just yet. Also, you'll have to catch me first!

[ChipMHazard]

 

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

I've said it repeatedly - obsidian was screwed the minute this became an issue. There was no way that they could please both groups.

 

If this had went the other way we'd be having the same kind of ****storm reaction, just from the other side.

 

 

Let's just hope that they bet on the right horse. Which given how PC focused the internet is they probably did. 

[Kimuji]

 

Read THIS.

 

 

 

"Asked". Meaning "change it or we simply remove it". There was no choice involved for the person.

 

Actually, there was a choice.  They asked me if I wanted to change in light of what happened.  I chose to change it so that they can concentrate on the game instead of this PR nightmare.  They weren't going to change it, they asked ME if I wanted to.  I can find another platform to write my controversial crap, and I will.  They, on the other hand, did the right thing and allowed me to decide the fate of the epitaph.  I chose to turn into something that made fun of the bitch-bastards that were complaining.

 

They went above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.

 

 

Now that we've got the real facts from Firedorn himself can we move on?

 

Sadly that only makes it appear less likely that Obsidian had a standard they wanted to uphold and more likely that it was changed because of the ****storm. 

 

 

So the author says that he is happy with the way Obisidian handled the complaints, that they went beyond his expectations and you're still blaming them?

 

Hell, I've seen countless posts stating that Obisidian didn't care at all for its backers using Firedorn as their #shield to justify their ranting. Firedorn just proved them all wrong.

[Kveldulf]

 

 

 

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

 

Agreed.  People made their case on both sides of the issue.  Obsidian listened and made up its own mind about how best to respond.  Respect their decision and move on.  The prolonged and irrational anti-"SJW" tantrum is effing infantile.

 

No it is just freedom of speech. And a reaction to their behavior since its getting more and more stupid every day.  And now the line is almost completely crossed for many people. 

 

 

Whose behavior?  From where I'm sitting, it seems both "sides" get way out of control and lose all sense of objectivity and rational thought almost every single time.

 

As for freedom of speech, indeed.  People on both sides exercised their freedom of speech to make their case.  Obsidian was 100% free to react in whatever way it felt best.  That's how freedom of speech and public debate are SUPPOSED to work.

 

 

Freedom of speech is great.... but it doesn't escape blow back. Obsidian may have thought of its best interests, but the ultimate message after all of this is, it buckled under pressure by a fringe group and backed down. This looks bad to the rest of the community; worse than keeping it. If  a dev thought it tasteless within Obsidian, then that's a reflection of their development, which also means confidence diminished - by those who actually thought the joke amusing.... which it sounds like the majority of its fanbase.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Kveldulf

[McFeeb]

Let's just hope that they bet on the right horse. Which given how PC focused the internet is they probably did. 

 

 

 

I guess we'll find out in the next Kickstarter.

 

Twitter has a big user base.  I'm sure they'll be willing to open their wallets.

[Nerdwing]

Obsidian did not buckle under pressure.  At the time, there really wasnt any pressure.  They, as stated, were going to leave the message in.  But the guy who made the message in question said "Naah, its not worth the PR trouble.  I'll change it to a more tongue-in-cheek joke instead".

[Cyphon]

 

 

 

 

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

 

Agreed.  People made their case on both sides of the issue.  Obsidian listened and made up its own mind about how best to respond.  Respect their decision and move on.  The prolonged and irrational anti-"SJW" tantrum is effing infantile.

 

No it is just freedom of speech. And a reaction to their behavior since its getting more and more stupid every day.  And now the line is almost completely crossed for many people. 

 

 

Whose behavior?  From where I'm sitting, it seems both "sides" get way out of control and lose all sense of objectivity and rational thought almost every single time.

 

As for freedom of speech, indeed.  People on both sides exercised their freedom of speech to make their case.  Obsidian was 100% free to react in whatever way it felt best.  That's how freedom of speech and public debate are SUPPOSED to work.

 

 

Freedom of speech is great.... but it doesn't escape blow back. Obsidian may have thought of its best interests, but the ultimate message after all of this is, it buckled under pressure by a fringe group and backed down. This looks bad to the rest of the community; worse than keeping it. If someone thought it tasteless in Obsidian, that's a reflection of their development, which also means confidence diminished by those who actually thought the joke amusing.... which it sounds like the majority of its fanbase.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  Rule 2:  Forums are not a representative sampling methodology.

 

The "majority of its fanbase" is quietly enjoying the game and ignoring this nonsense entirely.

 

And BTW, the first incident of speech receiving blowback is what you're trying to call "censorship" and "SJW", so it's pretty clear that whether you agree with the speech is your criterion for whether that's the speech that's important to protect.  Fact:  Obsidian was totally free...100% and completely free...to respond how it thought best and did so...exercising its free speech and expression.  Why can't you respect that?

Edited April 4, 2015 by Cyphon

[Namutree]

 

 

 

BTW a few people tried to use Erika's deadname. It's not actually Eric. That's pretty lazy of you.

If you're going to be a bigot and blow your whole case to hell put some more effort into it,

deadname?

Name before she transitioned. Gets hurled at transfolk a lot.

 

Wouldn't it be Birthname? As in the one his parents gave him?

 

Well now it's dead to her; I guess.

 

I kinda like the name Erika. Reminds of Fire Emblem 8. Not that that's one of the better Fire Emblem games. Not linear enough. Yes, Fire Emblem is BETTER when it's linear. Don't care how much people liked Awakening, it was too open! No strategy was needed cuz' you could just grind your way through. Screw that game. What was with the characters from other Fire Emblem games being in anyway? That's some bull crap. Ike should not be in the same universe as Marth. Speaking of Marth, why is it that Ike get's an English voice actor in smash, but Marth's stuck talking in Japanese? Then again, Ike's voice acting is really bad, so maybe Marth not getting a voice actor in English is a good thing. Bad voice acting is more tolerable when it's in what is to me; jibberish. 

 

Look what she did by being named Erika. Now every time I think about this issue I'll be thinking of Erika and thus Fire Emblem 8.

 

BTW: This post is very on topic!

Edited April 4, 2015 by Namutree

[Cyphon]

 

Let's just hope that they bet on the right horse. Which given how PC focused the internet is they probably did. 

 

 

 

I guess we'll find out in the next Kickstarter.

 

Twitter has a big user base.  I'm sure they'll be willing to open their wallets.

 

We'll find out what?  They're going to blow the next kickstarter to the moon after the quality of this release.

[ChipMHazard]

 

 

Read THIS.

 

 

 

"Asked". Meaning "change it or we simply remove it". There was no choice involved for the person.

 

Actually, there was a choice.  They asked me if I wanted to change in light of what happened.  I chose to change it so that they can concentrate on the game instead of this PR nightmare.  They weren't going to change it, they asked ME if I wanted to.  I can find another platform to write my controversial crap, and I will.  They, on the other hand, did the right thing and allowed me to decide the fate of the epitaph.  I chose to turn into something that made fun of the bitch-bastards that were complaining.

 

They went above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.

 

 

Now that we've got the real facts from Firedorn himself can we move on?

 

Sadly that only makes it appear less likely that Obsidian had a standard they wanted to uphold and more likely that it was changed because of the ****storm. 

 

 

So the author says that he is happy with the way Obisidian handled the complaints, that they went beyond his expectations and you're still blaming them?

 

Hell, I've seen countless posts stating that Obisidian didn't care at all for its backers using Firedorn as their #shield to justify their ranting. Firedorn just proved them all wrong.

 

 

Since their reasoning behind the change doesn't seem to fit with his, then yes I am blaming them for not being entirely honest. At least from what I can see. I want Obsidian to be consistent when it comes to this. They stated that it didn't live up to their standards, okay. He stated that they asked him if he wanted to change it because of the uproar. That's not the same reasoning. I am obviously glad that he (And Obsidian as well) got the last laugh.

 

So? What does that have to do with me?

Edited April 4, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[Namutree]

Read THIS.

 

 

 

"Asked". Meaning "change it or we simply remove it". There was no choice involved for the person.

 

Actually, there was a choice.  They asked me if I wanted to change in light of what happened.  I chose to change it so that they can concentrate on the game instead of this PR nightmare.  They weren't going to change it, they asked ME if I wanted to.  I can find another platform to write my controversial crap, and I will.  They, on the other hand, did the right thing and allowed me to decide the fate of the epitaph.  I chose to turn into something that made fun of the bitch-bastards that were complaining.

 

They went above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.

 

 

Now that we've got the real facts from Firedorn himself can we move on?

I hope some one get's that phone; cuz' I friggin' called it!

 

Yes, I stole that line.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Namutree

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

BTW a few people tried to use Erika's deadname. It's not actually Eric. That's pretty lazy of you.

If you're going to be a bigot and blow your whole case to hell put some more effort into it,

 

deadname?

Name before she transitioned. Gets hurled at transfolk a lot.

Wouldn't it be Birthname? As in the one his parents gave him?

Well now it's dead to her; I guess.

 

I kinda like the name Erika. Reminds of Fire Emblem 8. Not that that's one of the better Fire Emblem games. Not linear enough. Yes, Fire Emblem is BETTER when it's linear. Don't care how much people liked Awakening, it was too open! No strategy was needed cuz' you could just grind your way through. Screw that game. What was with the characters from other Fire Emblem games being in anyway? That's some bull crap. Ike should not be in the same universe as Marth. Speaking of Marth, why is that Ike get's an English voice actor in smash, but Marth's stuck talking in Japanese? Then again, Ike's voice acting is really bad, so maybe Marth not getting a voice actor in English is a good thing. Bad voice acting is more tolerable when it's in what is to me; jibberish. 

 

Look what she did by being named Erika. Now every time I think about this issue I'll be thinking of Erika and thus Fire Emblem 8.

 

BTW: This post is very on topic!

You like Fire Emblem 8?

 

Casual scum.

[Bayzent]

If Firedorn is OK with it, I'm OK with it.