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The Fate of Aloth


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I've found no topics dedicated to his path after the ending, and it feels surprising. So here goes.

 

My Aloth decided to don the robes of Thaos (literally his exact robes stripped from a smoldering corpse) and start his long journey on safeguarding the divine secret. Which I found a bit bewildering. Was it just me? (Considering no one else is obsessing about it.) What are his alternative endings?

 

For the record, I convinced him to dominate his alter ego, accepted his apology and invited him to be my equal rather than making a new master out of myself. Where did it go wrong? :) How am I not to kill/expell him every time he confesses from now on?

Edited by Primislas
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There is another choice right before you confront Thaos where Aloth asks if you think someone should become the new leader of the Leaden Key. I said no and he agreed, other than that I made the same choices like yours. And my Aloth starts his long journey on dismantling the Leaden Key.

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Interesting. I made exactly the same choices, but in my epilogue he went on a jorney to destroy the Leaden Key. During the final quest he kept saying that peple shouldn't live a lie, and false gods aren't the answer, so why would he even want  to guard they secret? 

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If you tell him to accept Iselmyr and use her skills, then he decides at the end of the game to hunt down remaining Leaden Key member and destroy the whole remaining organization. He also burns all Thaos things, because who the hell needs that stuff. 

 

I mean, come on, why tell him dominate over Iselmyr. The girl had good ideas about self-defence and protected Aloth. Seems to be rude to tell her just to sit quiet after all she has done.

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In mine he wanted to ensure the Leaden Key was all but wiped out, so I'm guessing you hold quite a lot of sway over what Aloth does.

"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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yeah, you can tell him what to do concerning the Leaden Key and accepting Iselmyr seems to be the "good" option (and imho also the most logical)

Depends on your perspective. Time and time again the plot offers you the choice over who should be in control of a person's mind, body, destiny. Was GM in the right trying to manipulate parents? Just to be consistent it felt appropriate to stop these subjugations of Aloth's will by a different entity. Aloth, suspicious as he was about animancy, seemed geniunely remorseful confessing his past with the Leaden Key, and abhorred by what he discovered about them. Whereas Iselmyr repeatedly got him into trouble, being a needlessly confrontational thief, cheater and liar.

 

It's one thing when your alter ego defends you when you're a child horrified of your parents. But come on now, Aloth is an adult. He figured out why Iselmyr awakened. He can reflect, make the right conclusions and grow as a character making her redundant. Like real adult people do. Instead he opted for a second 180 turn on his Leaden Key affiliation in a matter of days because reasons.

Edited by Primislas
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yeah, you can tell him what to do concerning the Leaden Key and accepting Iselmyr seems to be the "good" option (and imho also the most logical)

Depends on your perspective. Time and time again the plot offers you the choice over who should be in control of a person's mind, body, destiny. Was GM in the right trying to manipulate parents? Just to be consistent it felt appropriate to stop these subjugations of Aloth's will by a different entity. Aloth, suspicious as he was about animancy, seemed geniunely remorseful confessing his past with the Leaden Key, and abhorred by what he discovered about them. Whereas Iselmyr repeatedly got him into trouble, being a needlessly confrontational thief, cheater and liar.

 

It's one thing when your alter ego defends you when you're a child horrified of your parents. But come on now, Aloth is an adult. He figured out why Iselmyr awakened. He can reflex, make the right conclusions and grow as a character making her redundant. Like real adult people do. Instead he opted for a second 180 turn on his Leaden Key affiliation in a matter of days because reasons.

 

I think you really overestimate Aloth. He is very risk averse and dominating Iselmyr only makes the matter worse. He may dislike Leaden Key's methods, but he still doesn't agree with animancy and is rather close-minded. 

 

He will probably try to use softer methods and not create such large scale destruction... but in the end Leaden Key goals are the same as his. Create a safe place for Eora as a whole through control and subjugation. (Notice the overlying theme? It's alright to surpress the will of others and not to understand them, as long as it benefits you, just like with what you did with Iselmyr.)

 

I'm also not sure why you are calling Iselmyr a liar or a thief. After all, the only time Aloth tried to steal something it was because Aloth himself wanted that. Iselmyr had no say in that. 

 

Iselmyr gets him in trouble, when she tries to stand up for him, because Aloth is really rather spineless in most cases. Just like Pallegina said, Aloth has problems with speaking his mind. He could learn from Iselmyr in this aspect. He may have grown and became a formidable wizard, but he still is rather fearful and doesn't really deal with confrontations.

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I'm also not sure why you are calling Iselmyr a liar or a thief. After all, the only time Aloth tried to steal something it was because Aloth himself wanted that. Iselmyr had no say in that. 

 

Iselmyr gets him in trouble, when she tries to stand up for him, because Aloth is really rather spineless in most cases. Just like Pallegina said, Aloth has problems with speaking his mind. He could learn from Iselmyr in this aspect. He may have grown and became a formidable wizard, but he still is rather fearful and doesn't really deal with confrontations.

Somehow, no matter how I responded to his theft, the answer was coming from Iselmyr. One of them was to the tune of "I'll take care of him/that". It felt appropriate (again, he's worried his personal info will be exposed for all the world to see, she acts on his behalf) even though it left my head scratching - hasn't he just decided to take control of his life, like just just now? Maybe a dialogue scripting error.

 

And exactly, he's an anxious risk-averse person prone to stressing out. Yet he decides to throw his lot with the Leaden Key: can't be an easy decision and an easy path. And do their goals really coalesce? During the Duc's hearing he was urging for more control of the practice, not a complete ban. And the slides say his goal becomes guarding the secrets of the gods. (I'll screenshot it when I get the chance, seeing how it appears to be such a rare outcome. :p )

 

We can speculate that it was due to his anxiety over living in a godless world of uncertainty, and why not stand by the gods - manmade or not they are real things with all the attributes of deities. Be it as it may, still I feel it's a veeeery long stretch from trying to take matters into his own hands and outgrow Iselmyr. To me this outcome felt totally out of the blue as I was watching the slides in bewilderment. "Don't let others dictate you what you should do and learn to face your fears" somehow turns into "I will dominate all of you because it is right"? Certainly didn't see that coming at the time. (:

Edited by Primislas
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I would've posted a screenshot, but I can't figure out the show/hide tags, so here is the text:

 

When the dust settled in Sun in Shadow, Aloth looked upon the remains of Thaos ix Arkannon, his former master. He saw where the grandmaster had gone wrong, and knew what he would do better. [Yeah, better than a person with millenia of experience. Another  :no: ]

 

The secret of the gods would be preserved, and with it, the sanity and the wellbeing of all the kith. He donned the remains of Thaos' ceremonial garb and prepared himself for the long and lonely task ahead.

 

And the screenshot

 

FrNuzl.jpg

 

Edited by Primislas
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yeah but that seems to stem from other decisions you made when talking to him, not the dominate iselmyr-discussion (or not only), I'd say. 
For example I told him that the truth is better and that the leaden key cant be redeemed and has to be destroyed and got a different ending.

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If you tell him to accept Iselmyr and use her skills, then he decides at the end of the game to hunt down remaining Leaden Key member and destroy the whole remaining organization. 

You don't have to tell him to accept Iselmyr to get this ending. I told him to take full control over his body, and he successfully, er, silenced Iselmyr, but the epilogue was the same. 

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  • 4 months later...

I think Aloth has 3 endings. One if you kick him out of your party when he confesses to working for the Leaden Key, and an extra 2 (to either lead or dismantle the Leaden Key) based on what you tell him in the last dungeon. Since Thaos and Aloth are in quite different leagues power, experience, and personality-wise, I'm not sure that he'd be able to do either, but hey, he tries.

 

His personal quest seems to make zero difference anywhere (a little sad...)

 

Personally, I think his split personality was interesting enough. Really wish they didn't throw in the whole traitor / Leaden Key part. His one of my favorite characters, not to mention the only wizard you get, so I really didn't want him to be a backstabber...

Edited by Heijoushin
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The way I think the game works is that you kinda help Aloth (and some other npcs like Sagani) build a hidden Reputation. Just like the player can have one for both Honesty and Deception, and one may just be higher than the other (or tied!).

 

I believe that pushing Aloth to dominate Ishelmyr is a BIG mark in a hidden "Domination" Reputation, and accepting her is a big mark in a "Independent" Reputation. But there are many many marks to be had with him either way throughout your conversations with him. That way, you can constintenyly choose Independenty options for him, but when it comes down to what to do with Ishelmyr, choose Dominance, but still have Independence be higher with him, and get the "dismantle the Leaden Key" ending.

 

Whenever you see an option come up like "Trust your instincts" in an NPC quest dialoge, you're basically choosing a neutral option and saying "go with whatever the higher Reputation is".

 

Obstensibly, it may be possible to go the whole game leading Aloth to take over the Leaden Key, then get to Sun in Shadow where he asks what should be done, and tell him "Dismantle it" and he'll go on the lead it anyway. Maybe, if my theory is correct.

Edited by Novaseaker
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Someone should really dig into the game files for this.

Personally, I got the Dismantle ending for Aloth. Should be noted that when it came to Iselmyr, I was pretty consistent in choosing neutral options. However, I had Aloth in my party for most of the game due to my Rolling-Flame-Pinball Addiction, and for a lot of non-personal-quest-related conversations, I pushed him toward truthiness.

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  • 3 weeks later...

And then you also find that he doesn't do a very good job (either way, actually).  If you leave the tower machine in the city usable, 'per standing orders' the Leaden Key turns it on again.  Good job, Aloth!

 

As far as I know, this happens even if Aloth does not decide to become the new Grandmaster. Who knows how many new Grandmasters rose up after the fall of Thaos and how long Aloth would need to put Laden Key under his control (and if he ever even succeeds).

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Depends on your perspective. Time and time again the plot offers you the choice over who should be in control of a person's mind, body, destiny. Was GM in the right trying to manipulate parents? Just to be consistent it felt appropriate to stop these subjugations of Aloth's will by a different entity. Aloth, suspicious as he was about animancy, seemed geniunely remorseful confessing his past with the Leaden Key, and abhorred by what he discovered about them. Whereas Iselmyr repeatedly got him into trouble, being a needlessly confrontational thief, cheater and liar.

 

 

It's one thing when your alter ego defends you when you're a child horrified of your parents. But come on now, Aloth is an adult. He figured out why Iselmyr awakened. He can reflect, make the right conclusions and grow as a character making her redundant. Like real adult people do. Instead he opted for a second 180 turn on his Leaden Key affiliation in a matter of days because reasons.

 

 

I did not have that impression of Iselmyr at all.  Despite her flaws, I wanted to push Aloth towards "integration" as much as possible, although that's not really a concept in the game.  I actually had in mind Rand al'Thor from the Wheel of Time books, who went through a similar thing.  The closest thing to an integration seemed to be having Aloth come to an understanding with his alter ego.  She seemed to fill him out where he was weak and make him more a complete person.  Having him just continue to struggle and rebel against his condition seemed to be failing him thus far.  And after all, the dialogue option wasn't "just give up and let her ruin your life," it was something like "you should learn to relax and try to put her skills to use."

 

With regards to the outcome where he takes over the Leaden Key,  I thought the key dialogue was at the end of the campaign, but I don't know all the contributing factors.

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  • 1 year later...

Necroed!

 

So it basically is like this:

  • tell Aloth that he should be the new leader of the Leaden Key, because we need false gods and secrets
  • tell Aloth that he should destroy and/or dismantle the Leaden Key, because we don't need false gods and secrets

I want a third option!

  • tell Aloth, that you don't give a single copper about gods (be it real or artificial), but become a leader of the Leaden Key anyway, because having such an important figure as my ally would be cool af, so we can totally use this for our own shabby purposes, hyar hyar

:fdevil: 

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It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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It is implied that just because he becomes the leader of the Leaden Key doesn't mean he'll be as ruthless as Thaos in defending the "secret" of the gods, whatever that is. His ending is open-ended enough that you can infer that he leads the organization in a way that reflects his experiences with you.

 

So if your watcher was a crazed, power-hungry egomaniac or something Aloth will probably end up sitting on the the "throne" of the Leaden Key smiling evilly and rubbing his hands together while mumbling "My precious...".

Edited by scythesong
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