Please Don't Nerf Spells with Patch

[revjwh]

With the number of threads about too hard/too easy - it is obvious there is a fairly decent balance for the average player already in the game.

 

For solo, the few spells that are pretty impressive (slicken, ice fog, fan of flames, Mindblast etc.) give a fighting chance - even on normal they can be difficult if you are trying to play the game without memorizing every quest in order etc. They allow for flexibility.

 

Choice is what makes these type of games fun; variety to do as people want.... not restricting everything until you have to play a party and have certain characters.

 

Please don't nerf the spells - they are fun and make a smaller party or a solo run possible without having to be a detail master who min/max, memorize every benefit to be successful.

[Parsong]

I don't mind nerf to spells as long as they make them encounter based.

 

With the new nerfs comming, there is no reason for T1 Wizard spells to be per rest.  Per encounter should open up at level 3 for those.

[mazeltov]

Please don't nerf the spells - they are fun

 

No fun allowed. You can only outrun the Balance Man for so long before he cpatches you.

[Epsilon Rose]

With the new nerfs comming, there is no reason for T1 Wizard spells to be per rest.  Per encounter should open up at level 3 for those.

Have they listed what's going to be in the next patch somewhere?

[Khrysophylax]

I've posted about the Wizard balancing issue in a number of threads, and this is a poor 'balancing' decision, IMO.

 

Yes, Slicken was OP, but the wise solution would have been to nerf it and then either buff some other spells or change some core features of the class to make it more enjoyable to play. Instead, Slicken and Chill Fog were straight up nerfed and the only thing Wizard players got in compensation was... increased spell ranges. Now Wizards will be even more excruciating to play at low levels and the payoff will be even worse at level 9.

Meanwhile, the Druid is completely untouched. It still has amazing AOE foe-only damage spells, amazing CC spells, summoning spells, healing spells, and shapeshifting (though that may or may not be so amazing).

Edited April 2, 2015 by Khrysophylax

[Emptiness]

Have they listed what's going to be in the next patch somewhere?

 

Patch Notes: 1.03

[Tartantyco]

The game isn't supposed to be balanced around solo play. This thread is stupid.

[Dinapuff]

I've posted about the Wizard balancing issue in a number of threads, and this is a poor 'balancing' decision, IMO.

 

Yes, Slicken was OP, but the wise solution would have been to nerf it and then either buff some other spells or change some core features of the class to make it more enjoyable to play. Instead, Slicken and Chill Fog were straight up nerfed and the only thing Wizard players got in compensation was... increased spell ranges. Now Wizards will be even more excruciating to play at low levels and the payoff will be even worse at level 9.

 

Meanwhile, the Druid is completely untouched. It still has amazing AOE foe-only damage spells, amazing CC spells, summoning spells, healing spells, and shapeshifting (though that may or may not be so amazing).

 

It's like everyone collectively took a look at wizards in early DND and then said. "Yea, I'm gonna nerf the **** out of you until the only advantage you have lies in specialized lore, a few places to hang out with other wizards, and nostalgia." By this point the Cipher is better at CC (not reliant on rest), paralyze can be used with emergency scrolls, and the druid has better aoe.

[Schyzm]

 

I've posted about the Wizard balancing issue in a number of threads, and this is a poor 'balancing' decision, IMO.

 

Yes, Slicken was OP, but the wise solution would have been to nerf it and then either buff some other spells or change some core features of the class to make it more enjoyable to play. Instead, Slicken and Chill Fog were straight up nerfed and the only thing Wizard players got in compensation was... increased spell ranges. Now Wizards will be even more excruciating to play at low levels and the payoff will be even worse at level 9.

 

Meanwhile, the Druid is completely untouched. It still has amazing AOE foe-only damage spells, amazing CC spells, summoning spells, healing spells, and shapeshifting (though that may or may not be so amazing).

 

It's like everyone collectively took a look at wizards in early DND and then said. "Yea, I'm gonna nerf the **** out of you until the only advantage you have lies in specialized lore, a few places to hang out with other wizards, and nostalgia." By this point the Cipher is better at CC (not reliant on rest), paralyze can be used with emergency scrolls, and the druid has better aoe.

 

 

not being reliant on rest is pretty meaningless in a min/max consideration, the game is based around the hard fights. but yah slicken was holding up the wizard quite a bit, it'll probably no longer be as good as druid.

[Earthshocker]

Yeah, I agree with TC. With the focus on low-level gameplay in PoE the level 1 crowd control spells are the one thing that wizards currently have going for them(and given the general suckiness of the level 2 spells they are a very important part of the low level wizards arsenal). I remember being tempted to exchange Aloth for a cipher or barbarian several times on low levels due to the weakness of wizard spells when compared to my druids (and Vancian casting with restricted resting means that your few uses/day have to count. Personally, I would prefer if slickness and chill fog were exchanged with level 2 or 3 cc spells. To be honest, I'm surprised by these nerfs. So far I've found the wizard spell list to be the most 'balanced'  spell list in the game. I'm surprised that the nerf stick has been brought so early after release. Oh, and please, in future patches, hands off of fan of flames. In spite what some posters say it's fine. If anything, buff fireball

[termokanden]

While I think the druid definitely has the advantage after this, I don't believe it's going to ruin the wizard class or anything. I've been doing fine without those spells so far, and more range doesn't sound all that bad - often I've been having issues with Aloth having to run around a lot to cast spells.

 

While we're at nerfing, I don't really get the nerf to Mind Blades or Brilliant Radiance. The latter was one of the few things I enjoyed about having a priest in my party, and as for Mind Blades, it never struck me as overpowered. Mental Binding on the other hand! Not that I really want Ciphers nerfed. Ridiculously overpowered things might need to be nerfed, but I really hope Obsidian don't turn this into the endless cycle of overnerfing and overbuffing we see in some games (typically MMOs).

 

Oh and speaking as a frequent (all the time) user of Sure-Handed Ila, yep, it needs a nerf, and the nerf sounds quite fair to me. It's one of the few things I think absolutely should be nerfed, and afer the patch it will still be good.

Edited April 2, 2015 by termokanden

[Khrysophylax]

It's like everyone collectively took a look at wizards in early DND and then said. "Yea, I'm gonna nerf the **** out of you until the only advantage you have lies in specialized lore, a few places to hang out with other wizards, and nostalgia." By this point the Cipher is better at CC (not reliant on rest), paralyze can be used with emergency scrolls, and the druid has better aoe.

 

 

I think it's a little of column A, a little of column B. The devs didn't like how arcane spellcasters dominated BG2, so they set out right from the beginning to stop that train before it could get going. Then they saw widespread reports that Slicken was OP (and it was, indeed) so they decided that needed nerfing as well. To be honest, I can't argue with them that much--a 1st level spell shouldn't be dominating the entire game to that degree, especially after the 1st level spells become per-encounter at level 9.

 

The problem is that right now the Druid will soon be doing literally everything better than the Wizard. Sure, the Wizard still has Confusion and the like, but it's not nearly as spammable as the Druid's very nice level 1 spells (which lost no utility in this upcoming patch). Sure, you can say that it doesn't matter as this is a party game, but my contention is there will soon be precious little reason to choose the Wizard either as your PC or as a party member (Aloth or hirelings) when the Cipher and Druid can do just about everything better.

[HozzM]

I can't speak for all of them but Slicken, Mindblades and Ila are all *definitely* over powered.  Slicken can your own guys but its the best level 1 spell hands down.  Mindblades is insane for a level 2 spell and just 15 focus.  Ila is perhaps the most ridiculous of all.  It begs you to have two tanks and 4 guys using bows and guns.

[Ohioastro]

Beloved Spirits adds 0.4 Endurance to Ancient Memory instead of 2....

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Which makes it pretty much useless, no?

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In general, it seems to me that they over-compensate.  I would like to see more per encounter spells (slicken is actually still a solid spell; it's just no longer strictly better than everything else at level.

 

I'd like to see the damage-dealing spells pumped up some - they're pretty weak overall.

[Khrysophylax]

I'd like to see the damage-dealing spells pumped up some - they're pretty weak overall.

 

Me too, on that point. Fireball could use a bit of a buff--at the very least you hopefully won't have to cast it at point-blank range anymore. I guess that's something.

[Schyzm]

 

It's like everyone collectively took a look at wizards in early DND and then said. "Yea, I'm gonna nerf the **** out of you until the only advantage you have lies in specialized lore, a few places to hang out with other wizards, and nostalgia." By this point the Cipher is better at CC (not reliant on rest), paralyze can be used with emergency scrolls, and the druid has better aoe.

 

 

I think it's a little of column A, a little of column B. The devs didn't like how arcane spellcasters dominated BG2, so they set out right from the beginning to stop that train before it could get going. Then they saw widespread reports that Slicken was OP (and it was, indeed) so they decided that needed nerfing as well. To be honest, I can't argue with them that much--a 1st level spell shouldn't be dominating the entire game to that degree, especially after the 1st level spells become per-encounter at level 9.

 

The problem is that right now the Druid will soon be doing literally everything better than the Wizard. Sure, the Wizard still has Confusion and the like, but it's not nearly as spammable as the Druid's very nice level 1 spells (which lost no utility in this upcoming patch). Sure, you can say that it doesn't matter as this is a party game, but my contention is there will soon be precious little reason to choose the Wizard either as your PC or as a party member (Aloth or hirelings) when the Cipher and Druid can do just about everything better.

 

 

the cipher might still be inferior just because his resource mechanic is not as suited for spamming down people in really important fights.

 

the one thing that irks me about poe is that there is no replacement for the priest, druids are 80% wizard and paladins are 80% fighter. priest is basically its own singular class/role and that kinda gives me a sad.

[termokanden]

Actually on normal difficulty I've found that I don't need a priest at all. Much of the time, the protection spells and healing was entirely unnecessary. I'll be playing on hard next time I think and hopefully it'll make more sense there.

 

I actually managed to go through half a dungeon without noticing that Durance had died. All of a sudden, I realized his portrait was gone and had to backtrack through the dungeon to find his belongings. Everything was going super-smooth without him

[Shdy314]

They didn't nerf spells. They nerfed wizards. OE has a serious hate on for wizards. Druids, Chanters and Ciphers are allowed to continue to be great. Maybe better as charm/dominate issues are being addressed. Hope that means they don't automatically end the status effect because you killed the last hostile enemy. 

What is it with the mind blade love? Slashing? +5 vs. Deflection? Why would I use this? Soul Shock is fast and takes less focus.

 

Best case for wizards is their spells get a serious range increase that at least matches ranged weapons ranges. This means while Slicken may now be sad some high level spells may be a lot better. Fetid caress with a decent range would be good. Chill fog being friend or foe sucks but not as much as Slicken. It wont be hard to position that with a nice Intellect.

 

Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirits went from probably never take to NEVER take.

Ila Knocked was the best phrase. Now that goes to burning weapons. Only phrase I'll bother with now.

I guess arbalests will now be more equivalent to arquebus instead of better in every way so thats nice.

Why would they tune down Brilliant Radiance damage? Let my priest do some priestly stuff per encounter and not just shoot his gun.

Modified attributes of companions. I cant wait to see this one. Im expecting them to be even worse. Will they be fixing their awful talent selection too? That's even more problematic. You only get 6 of those.

Reduced the price of some stronghold upgrades? They werent cheap enough already? Is anyone actually hurting for cash? Im certainly not. 

[Fleshbits]

Actually on normal difficulty I've found that I don't need a priest at all. Much of the time, the protection spells and healing was entirely unnecessary. I'll be playing on hard next time I think and hopefully it'll make more sense there.

 

I actually managed to go through half a dungeon without noticing that Durance had died. All of a sudden, I realized his portrait was gone and had to backtrack through the dungeon to find his belongings. Everything was going super-smooth without him

 

and on Path of the Damned, you are guarenteed to wipe without one after the third zone.

[Mazuo]

There are very few powerful spells and if they nerf those few there will be less flexibility?  How?

 

How about abusively powerful spells get nerfed and the spells you skipped over to cheese with them get made stronger?

[Ohioastro]

In fairness, the ones that they made cheaper don't actually do anything.

[Epsilon Rose]

In fairness, the ones that they made cheaper don't actually do anything.

Really? That's actually a bit irritating, because the hearth's description makes it sound fairly important. There's too much in this game that's opaque or poorly telegraphed to the player.

[Elerond]

Wizards are great even with slicken and ice fog changed.

 

As Wizards (at least Aloth) probably will still be best end game class regardless at least until they fix those rings of wizardry, because 43 per encounter spells is just ridiculous    and those 25 level three spells and 17 level 4 spells isn't bad either. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Wizards have per rest spell because that was what backers wanted, even though Obsidian originally planed that wizards could get their spells back even during encounter. So if you don't like current system remember give your thanks those who it belongs 

Edited April 2, 2015 by Elerond

[Parsong]

Wizards are great even with slicken and ice fog changed.

 

As Wizards (at least Aloth) probably will still be best end game class regardless at least until they fix those rings of wizardry, because 43 per encounter spells is just ridiculous    and those 25 level three spells and 17 level 4 spells isn't bad either. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're fixing that also next patch.

 

BTW, where did you get the ring other than Telendras (sold in copper town). I only found that one.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Parsong

[Epsilon Rose]

EDIT: Wizards have per rest spell because that was what backers wanted, even though Obsidian originally planed that wizards could get their spells back even during encounter. So if you don't like current system remember give your thanks those who it belongs 

 

Wait, really? Was there a vote on that that I missed, because I would absolutely have been against per rest spells. They're terribad for balancing and gameplay.