How do you flee a fight? I just got one shotted by a bear.

[Katarack21]

Protip: To win fights, do not solo creatures with a squishy.

[Messier-31]

Lifehack: draw conclusions outta your experiences

[Shodan00]

Dude has a point indeed. There are situations in PoE that will kill you and which are impossible to predict: 

 

- Scripted battles that turn out to be too hard 

- Sneaking up on a single enemy who should be an easy target, only to find out that his 5 buddies were lurking around the corner

- The whole endless path of caed nua (especially walking north after climbing down a certain pit)

- The ground floor of the Lighthouse in Ondra's Gift 

- Picking the "wrong" answer in certain conversations

 

 

The bear is not the greatest example (given you were warned about how dangerous it is), but even in this situation it would be plausible to escape after disabling or blinding the bear. 

 

A decent fleeing system would have been nice, especially if it took into account movement speed and/or the general ability to fight in a specific moment. Imagine you find the bear and engage anyway because, as a ranger, you have your own bear after all, so the fight should be manageble, right? Your bear dies after two hits, so you use crippling shot on him (I know rangers don't have access to this skill - it's hypothetical), so the bear is hobbled and you can escape (possibly losing some of your inventory in the process, so you have to come back and get it at some point). 

 

That would be a much better implementation. Right now it's mostly trial and error with only a few instances where there is enough, if any, information about the upcoming encounter. 

How can you tell when it is the right time to engage two ogres at once if you never tried before? Bear vs. a single lvl 2 hero is pretty obvious, but what about later stages of the game? 

Fact of the matter is, that the current system makes hardcore playthroughs without an intricate knowledge of every single encounter impossible. Instead of blindly defending this already awesome game, we should be open to accept criticism where it's due, so Obsidian can hopefully make it an even better game once the DLC/Addon/Patch is out. 

 

There is no need to talk down people who have absolute valid points about how the game could be improved. Actually, this is quite detrimental to the quality of future content.  It's a really good game right now, but it can become so much better with the right tweaks.

Also think the op has valid a valid point. I want to do the same thing, play the game trial of iron blind. So much more fun that way.

 

I just got killed by shades, i pulled one, 5 more came. The problem is i can't escape after the pull. I playtested a normal game, if my party members get unconscious, im stuck in the zone. I cant abandon them, and the monsters stop hurting them. So i either starve to death or commit honorable sudoku at the hands of shades or whatever monster killed my party. Since you cant execute always everything perfectly, a blind trial of iron is impossible, even if you are extra careful. Im thinking of copying my savegame time to time to avoid these unreal situations. Hopefully a patch will address escaping combat. 

[Katarack21]

Dude has a point indeed. There are situations in PoE that will kill you and which are impossible to predict: 

 

- Scripted battles that turn out to be too hard 

- Sneaking up on a single enemy who should be an easy target, only to find out that his 5 buddies were lurking around the corner

- The whole endless path of caed nua (especially walking north after climbing down a certain pit)

- The ground floor of the Lighthouse in Ondra's Gift 

- Picking the "wrong" answer in certain conversations

 

 

1) None of them are unwinnable if you come back later when you're of the right level. I took out both Raedric (with smart positioning and use of bouncing AoE spells) and Wymund (attrition and foe AoE).

 

2) Why would you expect this to not be a thing? Fear the Fog of War. Fear it!

 

3) I took out both of those problems in one battle with no need to reload. It wasn't even all that hard. Wymund was harder.

 

4) There are no "wrong" answers, just different results. Sometimes you choices have consequences you don't like. That's called a good RPG.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Katarack21

[Molcho]

 

Dude has a point indeed. There are situations in PoE that will kill you and which are impossible to predict: 

 

- Scripted battles that turn out to be too hard 

- Sneaking up on a single enemy who should be an easy target, only to find out that his 5 buddies were lurking around the corner

- The whole endless path of caed nua (especially walking north after climbing down a certain pit)

- The ground floor of the Lighthouse in Ondra's Gift 

- Picking the "wrong" answer in certain conversations

 

 

1) None of them are unwinnable if you come back later when you're of the right level. I took out both Raedric (with smart positioning and use of bouncing AoE spells) and Wymund (attrition and foe AoE).

 

2) Why would you expect this to not be a thing? Fear the Fog of War. Fear it!

 

3) I took out both of those problems in one battle with no need to reload. It wasn't even all that hard. Wymund was harder.

 

4) There are no "wrong" answers, just different results. Sometimes you choices have consequences you don't like. That's called a good RPG.

 

 

1) You cannot come back when you play trial of iron.

 

2) I can expect it, but if im unlucky, I have to start the game from the beginning.

 

3) This is not about difficulty, but about being able to assess a situation before commiting to a fight.

 

4) Consequences that should be forseeable to a degree, especially if hours and hours of progress depend on them.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Molcho

[Alpha_Omega]

I use two benchmarks when I'm testing builds in the early game. The first is fighting the 3 bandits holding the dwarf hostage. The second is killing the bear. So far, only one melee-only (non-caster) build has succeeded in doing both.

 

I'm testing caster builds now to see what race/class/stat/talent combos are good.

 

This is the melee-only build that worked for me. with video proof

 

If you find any builds that work let me know. I'm testing the Druid bear-form now.

 

Only way to escape from fights are the talents that let you run faster or equipment that increases your defense when escaping.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HiM881U_d4

Edited April 3, 2015 by Alpha_Omega

[Hellraiser789]

 

 

Dude has a point indeed. There are situations in PoE that will kill you and which are impossible to predict: 

 

- Scripted battles that turn out to be too hard 

- Sneaking up on a single enemy who should be an easy target, only to find out that his 5 buddies were lurking around the corner

- The whole endless path of caed nua (especially walking north after climbing down a certain pit)

- The ground floor of the Lighthouse in Ondra's Gift 

- Picking the "wrong" answer in certain conversations

 

 

1) None of them are unwinnable if you come back later when you're of the right level. I took out both Raedric (with smart positioning and use of bouncing AoE spells) and Wymund (attrition and foe AoE).

 

2) Why would you expect this to not be a thing? Fear the Fog of War. Fear it!

 

3) I took out both of those problems in one battle with no need to reload. It wasn't even all that hard. Wymund was harder.

 

4) There are no "wrong" answers, just different results. Sometimes you choices have consequences you don't like. That's called a good RPG.

 

 

1) You cannot come back when you play trial of iron.

 

2) I can expect it, but if im unlucky, I have to start the game from the beginning.

 

3) This is not about difficulty, but about being able to assess a situation before commiting to a fight.

 

4) Consequences that should be forseeable to a degree, especially if hours and hours of progress depend on them.

 

 

Here's a question: If you are going Trial of Iron mode, shouldn't you naturally be more cautious? I mean, if I walk into a bandit camp, I can expect to get attacked and will probably die if I am soloing it unless I know exactly the layout of my enemies. So, naturally, i might stealth my way into the camp, figure out their numbers and then determine if its a winnable fight. So I mean, I'd say invest heavily in stealth for the future so you can avoid similar situations. I mean, what if there had been a dragon in there? You'd be f***ed no matter what (how do you fight a dragon on Trial of Iron mode? That's got to be crazy hard....). I mean, unless you can't leave after spotting the bear? but it looks like from the video above, he could see the bear before combat started, and it didnt start until he targeted the bear and actually attacked it (I am assuming because the bear hadn't detected him yet). So I'd say invest a lot in stealth.

 

Although, I'd have to say, I don't think itd be bad to implement running away and breaking out of combat - you could do that in BG, and the enemies would even follow you (to some extent). So I dont think the OP was actually being unreasonable to ask the question....However he could've phrased it better.

 

 

I just started playing this game. I entered a cave with a bear.  I figured I'd send in my pet bear first, if it died I would flee.   As I suspected my companion bear died in one hit.  So I ran towards the cave exit, but I couldnt' flee, the game wouldn't let me. Then the bear killed me in one shot.   This reminded me of dragon age origins mechanics, but DAO had a challenge scale.

 

The question is how can I gauge a fight before hand?  Is it possible to disengage from a losing battle?  Do I need some kind of skill to see if an enemy is too hard?

 

Does this mean I have to keep leaving areas and coming back later? 

 

 

If he had stopped there, he probably would've been fine. Instead, he was just blatantly acting like a troll and was treated as such. Also, if you just started the game, maybe Trial of Iron isnt the best option if you don't want to die....just sayin' - its hard. I don't think I'd do it for my first run....

[Molcho]

...

 

You are right, of course. You can choose to walk away from the bear, but not from other situations. Also, how do you know when you actually can take on the bear? Having your own bear, as a ranger, is quite the argument to attack anyway. 

 

More importantly, this is not about the personal agenda of the op or the people "hating" him. At least it shouldn't be. This should be about the game and how to help Obsidian make it even better. Even if the op turned out to be a non-likeable person, that doesn't mean his point was invalid. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Molcho

[Hellraiser789]

 

...

 

You are right, of course. You can choose to walk away from the bear, but not from other situations. Also, how do you know when you actually can take on the bear? Having your own bear, as a ranger, is quite the argument to attack anyway. 

 

More importantly, this is not about the personal agenda of the op or the people "hating" him. At least it shouldn't be. This should be about the game and how to help Obsidian make it even better. Even if the op turned out to be a non-likeable person, that doesn't mean his point was invalid. 

 

 

You make a valid point. And I agree that it would be nice to have the ability to retreat from undesirable situations. I may have actually been convinced to try Trial of Iron mode for my first playthrough and see how it goes (it sounds really cool actually   ). But if the OP leads the discussion by coming off as a troll, it makes people initially react as if his opinion is invalid. Doesn't mean he was wrong, just means he can't necessarily expect a completely unbiased discussion and it makes it appear he's really not interested in improving the game and therefore limits how much constructive feedback he'll actually receive. Makes it look likes he's just p***ed off and wants to vent. Which is fine - just don't expect people to believe that he has the game's best interests at heart and is trying to improve the game constructively - it appears dishonest. At least, thats how it come across to me.

 

But he has nothing to do with your point. I agree that it kinda sucks you can't retreat. I think it should at least be an option, and if the dev think its "cheap" or whatever (I've heard a few things about the devs, especially Sawyer, not liking how some people "cheat" the system, like with kiting for example, and try to do everything possible to prevent it and create a convoluted system to make that kind of "unacceptable" behavior not viable... still a great game though, devs get all my respect regardless), I think that's a little silly. Tactical retreating is normal.

 

There should be situations were you can't retreat to a certain extent (planar sphere, captured by mind flayers, the Underdark, etc) but by removing the option entirely makes it have less impact. Part of the reason I like the planar sphere was because I was "trapped" - I could not escape and I had to find my way out, developing the plot nicely and creating a memorable quest/atmosphere. Similarly, when I got capture by mind flayers, if I could just up and leave, that would be rather silly. However, I remember running through that mind flayer area my first time and literally locking myself behind doors while I regrouped and figured out what the h*** I was going to do. Wasn't my proudest moment, but it was awesome. Or, another example would be walking into a room full of bandits and being like o s***! and running out of the room (probably what I'd do in real life lol so I thinks its reasonable to implement), probably locking the door behind me while I regroup. Should they be able to chase you? H*** yeah! that'd actually be really cool if you opened a door, entered a room, realized you were outnumbered, locked the door behind you, and then they started pouring out of other doors, following you (you know, like people actually would...). I'd like to see something like that implemented. It'd be really cool IMO. Should you be able to outrun them? Maybe. Should it be automatic and have no risk? Maybe not. I think alerting the enemy to your presence has risks that would be cool to see implemented (they will follow you - and might catch you; they are on high alert, making it harder to sneak; etc)

 

Although, that could be harder to implement than one might think. Currently, you can't buff or activate (most?) abilities outside of combat. This means there has to be at least two states - in-combat and out-of-combat. So what would retreating fall under? Can you buff or use abilities while retreating? Which abilities can you can/can't use? Plus, how do you activate the retreat? Is it just a button where a "command" is issued telling your party members a retreat is in order? I'm probably over-complicating this. Definitely. Just make it so you can retreat during combat and its not a problem. Could probably just remove the line of code that says you can't leave an area while in combat. Then activate/deactivate combat accordingly (retreat = deactivates combat. When enemies follow after you and then target you, combat is activated again). Seems simple enough actually. Wonder why they didn't implement it in the first place....

[carlos2000]

Hola
playing ranger with a bear too
- found the cave first, got in, saw a huge bear - told my self, "that's a huge bear, better not disturb it" and went out
- met a guy, sent me back to cave, died few times, gave up
- returned back with bigger party , tried to:
  - sneak around - doesnt work - i was hoping the bear would sleep sometimes , he doesn't
  - charm animal him with druid - works for about 1 sec, then he attacks again (even with 2 WIL lowering spells from mage on him)
  - make the bear sleep with some darts/alchemy/potion/herbs .. none found on that level

Finally I had to kill the bear  - what a pity.
I thought there would be a way for Rangers and Druids (and other animal friendly minds) how NOT TO kill everything that moves and breathes and lives peacefully in the forest.

PS: running away from danger is half of adventurer's life - there definitely should be a way how to run away from fights off the screen

[Starrceline]

i cant believe there is no flee option in this game...im already not happy about the load times, and having to save before every battle is a bit much.

[Jaheiras Witness]

You can’t flee a map, you can flee an encounter on same map. Potions of Fleet Feet help.

 

On that bear map there is no room to flee. So once you start the fight you better win. Tbh I have little sympathy in this case. It’s quite realistic, not easy to run away from an angry bear after you’ve entered its lair (where it could have its young and does on Hard and PotD) and started attacking it. And you are warned on that map that the bear is dangerous and “I wouldn’t seek it out if I were you...would hate to hear that it took another life”.

 

So if you’re still reckless enough to enter its cave and attack it at low level, you pay the price. It’s kind of like a Darwin Award.

[dreamrider]

To answer the OPs underlying mechanics question (leaving aside the above thoroughly thrashed question of unannounced traps in the level design), …

 

… while in Combat Mode you cannot leave the current map. 

 

Also, while in Combat Mode, you cannot re-enter Stealth Mode.

 

If you can evade, out run, or hide from your opposition long enough that Combat Mode terminates, you can stealth to an entry point and leave the map.

Such evasion, escape, and hiding is GREATLY aided by being, at least temporarily, faster in move speed than your opposition.

 

There are Abilities, and potions, and items, that raise move speed.

 

Scout out the available empty space before you challenge any scouted enemies.  Know what you have available to run to "safely".

 

There are a few maps, mostly interiors, that are so close or open that, once you are revealed, the chances of separating far enough to hide until the opponents lose interest are virtually nil, no matter how fast you are.

 

My recommendation:  You should stealth all of a new map that you can, and eval the opposition before you challenge them.  Generally, assume that on a new map there are at least as many similar opponents just beyond sight as the ones that you found on the edges of your scoutable area.  Make a very careful eval of whether you have enough room and combat power to take the visible oppos + equal friends.  Always assume, if you are seeing some new type of critter or kith class, that you CANNOT take them at first encounter without either leveling again, or a full-as-possible party of help.

 

 

PS - That Bear Cave was never intended as even a tough win for a 1-2 level character, though it IS possible for a properly leveled and, especially, equipped 2nd level char.  How about if your character crafted some potions of Wizard Double, Regen, and 2-3 Scrolls of Fan of Flames with the stuff picked up in the Ruins?  Not a guarantee...but really, REALLY, helps.

Note though...on the main, and relatively safe, route through the Valewood, you get warned, in strong terms, "Don't go in the Bear Cave."

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Hahah, years later and The Bear is still reaping newbie faces

 

Good Bear

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Hahah, years later and The Bear is still reaping newbie faces

 

Good Bear

After years of playing.. I can only solo with a ranger (with Bear companion, oh, the irony) and Monk. That Bear is a solid fight, especially when the rest before it felt like pushovers.