Creslin321 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 So I don't know if you guys noticed this, but it seems like fan of flames (ie burning hands) does WAAAY more damage than it should when compared to other spells. To give perspective here, fan of flames is a level 1, fairly large conal AoE, and on my level 6 Aloth, it does 42-58 burn damage. Meanwhile, fireball, a level 3, circle AoE does 27-37 damage. Or take Necrotic Lance, a level 2 SINGLE TARGET spell that does 37-48 damage plus 17.7 over time...meaning a total of 54.7-65.7 damage. Which is just a bit more than the level 1, very large AoE fan of flames, which does all its damage instantly. Is this the way it's supposed to be? I mean, one would think that the level 3 spell would at least do damage on par with the level 1 spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikke Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 BETA didn't get all those things right, let's hope for fast patches So many skills/feats/spells are either underpower or overpower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirigible Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Honestly, if you simply swapped the damage values for Fan of Flames and Fireball I think it would be fixed. Makes me wonder if it's legit a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUsernamelessOne Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't know. Why does nearly every monster in the game inflict a status ailment that weakens your Deflection if not cripple you outright with its basic attack? In a game where even a partial hit inflicts said status ailment in full force? And then allow you to summon such a monster of your own? Seriously, forget Fan of Flames, the summoned Phantom can solo most encounters through stunlock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 BETA didn't get all those things right, let's hope for fast patches So many skills/feats/spells are either underpower or overpower. Okay cool, so I'm not the only one that thinks this lol . I've also noticed a lot more of this imbalance in spells as I perused through them. For example, Noxious blast, and Fireball. Both level 3 circle AoE spells. Fireball does 27-37, and that's it. Corrosive blast does 32-45 AND it sickens AND it's longer range. :/ lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMenace Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Josh Sawyer designed it that way because it's harder to land a Fan of Flames than a Fireball, thus it should do more damage. He mentioned this during a tumbler or twitter response IIRC. Edited March 30, 2015 by TrueMenace Calibrating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanos Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I think it's that other spells are bad, rather than Fan of Flames being overly good. Wizard got the shorter end of the stick this time around, it seems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Josh Sawyer designed it that because it's harder to land a Fan of Flames than a Fireball, thus it should do more damaged. he mentioned this during a tumbler or twitter response IIRC. Now this is true, and it's something I considered. Because FoF projects from your wizard, so you have to get him in the fray. Whereas fireball has a longer range. The problem is I think they went to far. IMO, fireball is a level 3 spell, meaning it should already have some advantages over a level 1 spell. Also, the damage difference is so extreme, that when you take damage reduction into account, fireball becomes nearly useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have no clue re: this, but do resistances come into play much in PoE? eg, maybe fire resistance becomes somewhat common? Or maybe it was felt more damage helps compensate for the potential friendly fire issues (incentive to not choose "less dangerous" ones all the time instead). Wait, does that have any FF? Maybe I'm confusing it with something else. Or Josh could have his reasons, too (I think too long/type too slow, as usual). “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUsernamelessOne Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Josh Sawyer designed it that because it's harder to land a Fan of Flames than a Fireball, thus it should do more damaged. he mentioned this during a tumbler or twitter response IIRC. Ooooh, okay, so that's how balance works. When you're balancing a first level spell against a third level one, the third level one should be inferior to compensate for being potentially more difficult to cast without catching your party members in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have no clue re: this, but do resistances come into play much in PoE? eg, maybe fire resistance becomes somewhat common? Or maybe it was felt more damage helps compensate for the potential friendly fire issues (incentive to not choose "less dangerous" ones all the time instead). Or Josh could have his reasons, too (I think too long/type too slow, as usual). They do come into play, but FoF and fireball are both fire damage sooo... But yeah, the whole fireball is easier to get off due to it's range is a factor. Regardless though, I don't think it's a large enough factor for the damage differential here. I basically never use fireball because the damage is so low...by the time it gets through damage resistance, it rarely hits above 20 it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollockoff Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUsernamelessOne Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable. Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollockoff Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable. Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works. Says who? Your pompous bold italic text? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartantyco Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Fireball is easier to target, has a much larger AoE, and is much faster to cast. Fan of Flames requires positioning to even be usable. You either have to spend time running around the flank to get it off, use the far smaller Foe Only AoE, or have a frontline Wizard to use FoF. Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works. It is how balance works in PoE. You're not supposed to end up with completely useless level 1 spells in the end game, which is the case with the DnD spells. Edited March 30, 2015 by Tartantyco 2 "You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt." Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity [slap Aloth] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable. Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works. Says who? Your pompous bold italic text? I'm gonna agree with Nameless here. A third level spell should have some advantage over a first level one. I'm not saying that first level spells should be useless, but I shouldn't be coveting my first level spells lots WAY more than my third level ones which is what i'm doing now. With the way the game is now, if I could trade my third level slots for more first level ones, I probably would. And I would think that's a sign of imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUsernamelessOne Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Says who? Your pompous bold italic text? The point I'm trying to make is that it is already balanced by virtue of requiring you to be four whole levels higher to cast it. It doesn't need to have its effects nerfed to make up for the advantages it offers in comparison to fan of flames. Edited March 30, 2015 by TheUsernamelessOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanos Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable. Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works. Says who? Your pompous bold italic text? One would imagine that a class feature acquired four levels later with less uses would be balanced to be more powerful than the class feature acquired at level 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashiki Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 In my book it should be OP'd, it's one of those highly difficult spells to use and very situational. The chance of FF is very high using it as well, and the chance of the enemy negating part or all of the damage is also good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Fireball is easier to target, has a much larger AoE, and is much faster to cast. Fan of Flames requires positioning to even be usable. You either have to spend time running around the flank to get it off, use the far smaller Foe Only AoE, or have a frontline Wizard to use FoF. What about noxious blast then? Which is the same level as fireball, has the same AoE, but also causes sicken, has longer range, and does more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirigible Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The ease-of-use that Fireball has doesn't make up for it's piss-poor damage. It's not just bad compared Fan of Flames, it's bad compared to Noxious Burst - another level 3 spell which does everything Fireball does, but better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMenace Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Every game has unbalanced abilities. Relax and all of this will eventually be patched. For now, use the more powerful stuff and stop crying. Calibrating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollockoff Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Strategically it's more powerful because you can use it safely in more situations. Tight rooms and corridors where your Wizard can't find a gap? Fireball. Too close to an enemies engagement radius? Fireball. If it did as much or more damage than Fan you would never use Fan again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I also want to point out that Fireball is basically the iconic wizard spell. And in every D&D-esque game someone plays, they are always waiting for their wizard to get fireball so then they can start melting groups of mobs. So it's just disappointing to have Fireball in PoE be outclassed by just about every other damage spell in the game. Even level 1 damage spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollockoff Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 In my book it should be OP'd, it's one of those highly difficult spells to use and very situational. The chance of FF is very high using it as well, and the chance of the enemy negating part or all of the damage is also good. But it's not. The only reason Fireball was a gamble in BG was because you had to get a feel for the radius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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